Australia Australia - Corryn Rayney, 44, Como, WA, 7 August 2007

[Zoro]

Ezy Street...... with regard to the alarm system, there would be a general pattern as to when the alarm is activated either way, on a day to day basis.
To show that the alarm was suddenly disarmed into the early hours of the morning before it was activated if at all, would show a discrepancy of household security behaviour. Hence he elected to go for the 'faulty story' when quizzed and obviously by the time the police got around to taking a closer look at the situation, all records had been deleted.
Just my spin on that part of the puzzle.

 

[Nads]

Re the alarm system, they may call on the security company to give evidence. They at least might be able to say that the system was working, or it hadn't been reported as not working, and they'd know if someone had been sent to fix it. So catching out LR in a lie, or a probable lie anyway.

 

[Daisyinthedesert]

The psychological impact on placing the Rayney children elsewhere would have been greater given that they had lost one parent and depended on the other parent for the next 3.5 years. The Baden Clay children were only with their father for a short time before his arrest and so placing them elsewhere (though difficult) would not have been as traumatic as if they had lived with and depended on their father alone for 3.5 years before being shipped off to another relative.

Not sure what the possibilities were on the Rayney side, but I read in the article below that Corryn's family had not spoken to LR or had contact with the girls since her death.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/truth-of-rayney-murder-mystery-to-come-to-light-20120715-223ti.html

Lloyd has a sister, Raelene, who was with the girls at the Court. Corryn also has a sister and father but they appear to be estranged from the girls since shortly after the murder. Probably because her family believed LR had murdered Corryn but the girls sided with their father. Sad because I remember reading they got together at least once a week before she died. IMO

 

[mouse detective]

Bolded By Me


In My Opinion it might just have been the lie he told about the system not working that was the real issue -- and not really the matter of whether he set the alarm or not.Hopefully, we will understand more about this in the coming days, as witnesses are heard.
[/I]

Thanks YN. I think the issue with that as a statement would be from a POlce perspective is that whilst he might not have set the perimeter alarm, his wife may have. Clearly from his testament she would have arrived home after he went to bed (at 10.30 ish?)!

After hearing about the GBC and Rayney case I think there should be a standard set of questions asked of every person whose partner/spouse goes missing.

Police need to have more powers in terms of search warrants and other investigations at the homes of persons who are reported as missing, especially where the answer to certain questions equates to admission of severe marital strain - JMO!!

 

[Nads]

I'm wondering how much of the dirt Corryn suspected the police managed to find on LR? It would have to be directly related to the case if they find some big things, so surely could not be suppressed. LR would have had years to try to cover it up though.

 

[YoureNicked]

Thanks YN. I think the issue with that as a statement would be from a POlce perspective is that whilst he might not have set the perimeter alarm, his wife may have. Clearly from his testament she would have arrived home after he went to bed (at 10.30 ish?)!

After hearing about the GBC and Rayney case I think there should be a standard set of questions asked of every person whose partner/spouse goes missing.

Police need to have more powers in terms of search warrants and other investigations at the homes of persons who are reported as missing, especially where the answer to certain questions equates to admission of severe marital strain - JMO!!

You've made some good points, Mouse.

IMO

 

[YoureNicked]

I agree that the graphic of Corryn's grave was quite disturbing. The prosecutor asserts that she was buried in that manner to speed decomposition of the head and neck but I do not understand why this would be the case. I have tried to do some research on the relationship between depth of burial and decomposition but could not find anything to back up what is being asserted. I'm sure that during the trial it will all come out though.

One thing that I noticed was the way that her hands were folded across her chest. I would be interested to know what a criminal profiler would make of the killer's decision to do that rather than to just dump the body in and let the hands fall where they may. My thought is that someone who knows the deceased might take a little more care to place the hands versus someone who was unknown to the deceased.

I grabbed this from one of grannie's posts in the Allison Baden-Clay forum.

It doesn't really say anything about depth of burial and how it impacts upon decomposition but it does mention that blood settling due to gravity can cause something called petechiae ('Tardieu Spots').

Perhaps the killer thought the blood settling in Corryn's head, neck area would help to disguise any injuries to that section of her body?

Warning - the article below is pretty graphic.

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/post-mortem-interval/

Excerpt:-
"When a body has lain on its front, post mortem hypostasis will devlop on the front of the body. Blood settling in lax soft tissues of the face can cause petechiae, and sometimes larger coalescences of petechiae (vibices or 'Tardieu spots'), perhaps with pallor due to compression around the mouth and nose. In such circumstanes, the pattern of hypostasis may appear sinister, and suggest that compression of the mouth/ nose (suffocation) had occurred. Detailed pathological dissection of the face and neck in such cases will frequently be able to distinguish such scenarios, but pressure to the face/ neck may not always be capable of being excluded."

 

[Nads]

The prosecution were proposing that LR knew from his job that burying head down would help disguise evidence.

 

[YoureNicked]

The prosecution were proposing that LR knew from his job that burying head down would help disguise evidence.

LR would indeed know this.

 

[Solaris]

I grabbed this from one of grannie's posts in the Allison Baden-Clay forum.

It doesn't really say anything about depth of burial and how it impacts upon decomposition but it does mention that blood settling due to gravity can cause something called petechiae ('Tardieu Spots').

Perhaps the killer thought the blood settling in Corryn's head, neck area would help to disguise any injuries to that section of her body?

Warning - the article below is pretty graphic.

http://www.forensicmed.co.uk/pathology/post-mortem-interval/

Excerpt:-

Thanks for that YourNicked. Yes, it could be related moreso to the positioning of the body and what that means for decomposition than the depth of burial.

Everything that I've read about depth of burial (if you do a Google search you can access a number of research papers on the subject) says that decomposition slows with increasing depth of burial. This is mostly due to the reduction in temperature variation at greater depths and the absence of scavengers. So, if you wanted to increase the rate of decomposition of the head and neck by depth of burial, then technically it would have been better off putting her in feet first.

So..if the prosecution are making the argument that he was trying to speed the decomposition of the head and neck to disguise injuries they must have some other reason for thinking that would occur. It would make sense that it might have something to do with the positioning of the body in the ground rather than depth per se.

If the police are able to show that LR had intimate knowledge about positioning of the body in the ground (based on previous cases he had worked on for example) and it's effect on decomposition, this would certainly be helpful to the prosecution case. The average random perpetrator would most likely not have access to this type of specialised knowledge.

Of course, the other possibility is that whoever dug the grave had no particular reason for the placement of the body and it just worked out that way based on their own personal digging pattern. We know that whoever dug the grave did not do a very good job because it was not deep enough to conceal the legs and the the zip on the jeans had to be pulled down to allow for the bending of the legs so that the body would fit in.

 

[mouse detective]

JUst thought I would mention that I went to Kings Park yesterday (Friday). I was there at lunchtime. The weather was cool but sunny and to my surprise there were crowds of people in the park - especially the part near the Zamia cafe. Traffic there was bumper to bumper as everyone tried to find a parking spot. It is school hols of course. I drove around the corner and travelled up Lovekin Avenue, past the sandy track where Corryn's body was found. I parked there for a short while and thought about visiting her grave but realised I was running late for an appointment. What I did notice was how few cars were travelling down that stretch of Lovekin Avenue. I suspect after 11pm in the winter there would be virtually zero traffic going down there.

 

[mouse detective]

Article about Clare O'Brien who worked with Lloyd Rayney at the DPP - her brother Nathan Krasenstein and his friend Timothy Pearson who were involved in the wire tap.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/society-link-to-rayney-inquiry/story-e6frg6pf-1111114736855

I wonder if this is the former colleague LR had the affair with??

 

[mouse detective]

Monitored alarms require the land line to call the monitoring centre. It is possible that the home alarm system was compromised during the period that the bugging device was installed. LR may not have realised that when the bug was removed the alarm was working as it should. JMO

 

[YoureNicked]

Items that Placed Corryn At Her Home Before She Was Killed.

In my opinion, soil and seeds stuck to Corryn's body, allegedly coming from the family property - and a coat that Corryn was seen wearing to her boot scooting class, found at the house, will be strong evidence for the Prosecution:

http://www.news.com.au/was-trial-of-the-century/story-e6frg12l-1226427536395

"Mr Agius said the court would hear the soil and seeds could not be matched to Kings Park, where Mrs Rayney's body was found.

The Crown will allege they had stuck to Mrs Rayney when her body was on the ground outside the family home in Como.

A coat seen by a detective on Mrs Rayney's bed on August 8 and a handkerchief found at the bottom of her grave will emerge as key items in the trial.
The prosecution alleges witnesses saw the deceased wear the coat to her bootscooting class, implying Mrs Rayney had returned home before she was killed".

BBM

 

[Gemini Girl]

I agree, GeminiGirl - the Baden-Clay case and this one just seem so similar in their circumstances...and yet the alleged killers have been treated so differently.

LR gets bail and custody of his children whilst GBC is in custody awaiting trial and his children are put in the care of Allison's parents.

The only reason I can see for this difference in treatment between the two alleged murderers is that one is a member of the legal fraternity.

It stinks, in my opinion!

But at least, since LR's trial is not in front of a jury, we can pretty much say what we want in these forums!

For example - LR makes me want to barf!

:jail:

I agree totally YN, I know for a fact that LR has more than one sister (I attended Curtin Uni with one other one in the late 1990's) and from what I recall of conversations with that other sister (and there could have been more than two sisters, this person did not give me a total run down of her family's make up at any stage), she had more than one brother and more than two nieces/nephews.

I will not reveal her name to protect her privacy. I am sure she has suffered more than enough by association already.

However I do not believe a lack of alternative carers is why LR was granted bail.

I suspect (MOO) his prominence as a barrister led to him being given more credence than an ordinary mortal, both in terms of his own trustworthiness, and in terms of the possible psychological impact on his children of being moved to alternative care, and if that is true, yes, it is sick making.

Again I am looking for a barfing emoticon and not finding it. Has happened to me a few times recently!

:banghead:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

Lloyd has a sister, Raelene, who was with the girls at the Court. Corryn also has a sister and father but they appear to be estranged from the girls since shortly after the murder. Probably because her family believed LR had murdered Corryn but the girls sided with their father. Sad because I remember reading they got together at least once a week before she died. IMO

Hi Daisy, am deeply concerned at the length of time LR has had to "school" his daughters in seeing this his way. I suspect (MOO) this is why the rift with their mother's family occured.

Does anybody in the west know, has LR been able to keep practising law while on bail?

:maddening:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

JUst thought I would mention that I went to Kings Park yesterday (Friday). I was there at lunchtime. The weather was cool but sunny and to my surprise there were crowds of people in the park - especially the part near the Zamia cafe. Traffic there was bumper to bumper as everyone tried to find a parking spot. It is school hols of course. I drove around the corner and travelled up Lovekin Avenue, past the sandy track where Corryn's body was found. I parked there for a short while and thought about visiting her grave but realised I was running late for an appointment. What I did notice was how few cars were travelling down that stretch of Lovekin Avenue. I suspect after 11pm in the winter there would be virtually zero traffic going down there.

Thanks MD. I know Corryn is not there anymore, (in fact I do not believe souls who have passed are where thier body is buried or their ashes are stored, in any case)however next time I am in Perth, I shall leave some flowers on that spot.

:twocents:

JMO MOO

 

[YoureNicked]

Hi Daisy, am deeply concerned at the length of time LR has had to "school" his daughters in seeing this his way. I suspect (MOO) this is why the rift with their mother's family occured.

Does anybody in the west know, has LR been able to keep practising law while on bail?

:maddening:

JMO MOO

Hi Gemini Girl - I'm not sure if Lloyd Rayney has been suspened from practising law. I've done an online search (as you probably also have) but can't find any reference to this being the case.

The only reference I have found to him 'working' is in this recent rather gossipy piece about him being at a pub a month ago. But it doesn't say what kind of work he's doing. Maybe he's just working on his own case?

I do tend to think, however, that seeing as the judge was so kind to grant LR bail - out of particular consideration for the children - that LR is still working as a lawyer in some capacity at least - so that he can provide financially for himself and his daughters.

Just my thoughts only and it would be great if someone who knows for sure, would clue us in!

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/perth-now/lloyd-rayneys-early-exit/704598

"Mr Rayney's lawyer Laura Timpano, pictured left, told The Sunday Times her client had gone to the pub to "wind down" after working all Saturday and Sunday."

 

[YoureNicked]

Hi Daisy, am deeply concerned at the length of time LR has had to "school" his daughters in seeing this his way. I suspect (MOO) this is why the rift with their mother's family occured.

Does anybody in the west know, has LR been able to keep practising law while on bail?

:maddening:

JMO MOO

Totally agree with you, Gemini Girl. What has happened with this Rayney case has made me very glad that Gerard Baden Clay was arrested so early so that the same 'indoctrination' couldn't occur with Allison's three girls. (We have already seen, from the Baden-Clay case, how, immediately after Allison's disappearance the B-C girls were kept, almost completely, away from Allison's side of the family.)

My Opinion Only.

 

[YoureNicked]

Another article. This one is interesting in that it is a first-hand account of the journalist's momentary encounter with Lloyd Rayney and then a day in court at the Rayney trial which has just begun.

One thing that differs from other reports I've read is that this one says that the Prosecutor Mr Agius spoke of Corryn's 'crushed head' during his opening address. Truly horrible, if that is true.

Also, the report says that Justice Martin was the prosecutor in the Azaria Chamberlain case in Darwin 30 years ago.

I haven't researched Justice Brian Martin yet but if anyone else knows about him, feel free to share!

http://www.thestarfish.com.au/rayney-australias-most-riveting-murder-trial/