Australia Australia - Corryn Rayney, 44, Como, WA, 7 August 2007

[mouse detective]

Don't know what to make of the handkerchief, only that it was dropped in the dark of night unnoticed. I did read somewhere (sorry not computer savvy enough to do links) that the handkerchief contained DNA. So may have been used to wipe away smears, hand prints etc?

JAC6007 - I doubt that most people would think of such a trivial item as a hankie might be traceable to a single store - especially if bought in Bali. It is certainly not something anyone would plant in order to incriminate someone.

I seem to recall that the prosecution claim that DNA was on the hankie - it was definitely not Corryn's, but they could not eliminate the possibility that it came from LR.

I have been thinking about the bollard and why there was a trail of oil on the way in but the car was still able to be driven after burying the body. I think the car may have hit the concrete base on the way in causing a little leak but on the way out the underside of the car hit the concrete again and caused a bigger leak after which the car would have lost significantly more oil, started to overheat, smoke and become noisy and powerless.

Not sure about hit man being involved but irrespective of who did it, I firmly believe that LR is behind it. There are just too many coincidences in my view.

JMO

 

[Rational]

JAC6007 - I doubt that most people would think of such a trivial item as a hankie might be traceable to a single store - especially if bought in Bali. It is certainly not something anyone would plant in order to incriminate someone.

I seem to recall that the prosecution claim that DNA was on the hankie - it was definitely not Corryn's, but they could not eliminate the possibility that it came from LR.

I have been thinking about the bollard and why there was a trail of oil on the way in but the car was still able to be driven after burying the body. I think the car may have hit the concrete base on the way in causing a little leak but on the way out the underside of the car hit the concrete again and caused a bigger leak after which the car would have lost significantly more oil, started to overheat, smoke and become noisy and powerless.

Not sure about hit man being involved but irrespective of who did it, I firmly believe that LR is behind it. There are just too many coincidences in my view.

JMO

What is the charge in WA for conspiracy to murder versus unlawful homicide? Any WA law experts??

 

[Solaris]

Excellent points, thank you Solaris.

That is interesting that the place card was found days prior to Corryn being found - what were the circumstances? Very unusual that one would keep such a thing if found, although I guess whoever found it would have known Corryn was missing at that time?

Hi Thinking

Benjamin Roberts committed suicide in Kings Park. He went missing on 22 April 2007 and his remains were found in the Kings Park in July 2007. Members of the Roberts family were in the park searching for his remains and came across the card on 11 August 2007. The location of the card was on the roadside about 100 metres from CR's gravesite.

Yes, you are right. At the time they found the card they would have known that Corryn Rayney was missing - it was very well publicised at the time (including the name of her husband).

Below is an excerpt from the following MSM link about the witness testimony pertaining to the finding of the place card.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/first-witnesses-take-to-the-stand-in-rayney-murder-trial-20120724-22m43.html

3.10pm: Professor John Roberts, the father of Benjamin Roberts who committed suicide in Kings Park prior to Corryn Rayney's disappearance, has given evidence in the murder trial of Lloyd Rayney.
Prof Roberts was searching for his son's outstanding remains on August 11, 2007, and discovered a dinner place card bearing Mr Rayney's name near the entrance to the wattle track on Lovekin Drive.
He took a photo of the place, card along with several lighters found near it.
Mr Roberts said he'd been to the park "numerous times" searching for his son's missing bones.
He said the weather on the day was sunny and clear.
Statements were also tendered by Joanna and Beverly Roberts.

 

[Thinking]

Hi linette, and welcome to this case, which has so many parallels to the Baden-Clay case. (Welcome also, Thinking!)

Yes, as far as anybody can tell they are of that belief, they supported their father in his quest for bail, they appear to be always by his side, smiling in a way that most of us on here find quite disturbing in the circumstances, and seem estranged from their mother's family (though whether that is their choice or not is unclear).

Back on page 2 or 3 of this thread I think you will find a number of links in relation to all these matters.

:seeya:

JMO MOO

Thanks GG It is lovely to see some names I recognise here in an equally gripping and sad case. Thanks to all of you who are helping us to familiarise ourselves with the details. And welcome too linette!

 

[Thinking]

I cannot believe the Police spend all this money on high tech radars to catch speeding motorists and don't give their forensic officers in a murder enquiry suitable technology to ensure that they are not reliant on a singular paper copy of notes!

Agreed. How incredibly stressful for that forensic officer - imagine how many rooms in her home she has turned upside down looking for it, not to mention her office - what a nightmare!

 

[Thinking]

Hi Thinking

Benjamin Roberts committed suicide in Kings Park in July 2007. Members of the Roberts family were in the park searching for his remains and came across the card on 11 August 2007. The location of the card was on the roadside about 100 metres from CR's gravesite.

Yes, you are right. At the time they found the card they would have known that Corryn Rayney was missing - it was very well publicised at the time (including the name of her husband).

Below is an excerpt from the following MSM link about the witness testimony pertaining to the finding of the place card.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/first-witnesses-take-to-the-stand-in-rayney-murder-trial-20120724-22m43.html

3.10pm: Professor John Roberts, the father of Benjamin Roberts who committed suicide in Kings Park prior to Corryn Rayney's disappearance, has given evidence in the murder trial of Lloyd Rayney.
Prof Roberts was searching for his son's outstanding remains on August 11, 2007, and discovered a dinner place card bearing Mr Rayney's name near the entrance to the wattle track on Lovekin Drive.
He took a photo of the place, card along with several lighters found near it.
Mr Roberts said he'd been to the park "numerous times" searching for his son's missing bones.
He said the weather on the day was sunny and clear.
Statements were also tendered by Joanna and Beverly Roberts.

Thanks Solaris, that is very interesting. My heart aches for the Roberts family too, how tragic for them. Yet how amazing that they may play a part in obtaining justice for Corryn.

 

[mouse detective]

I have just caught the tail end of Australian Story - tonight it was about DV case in Mirrabooka. I will watch tomorrow on iview. Basically a man who has admitted to killing his wife who was living in a refuge, has been sentenced to just 5 years in prison, has been setting himself up to looking after his children, when he gets out. I have one big issue about this - why is any person who is accused or suspected of murdering their spouse be allowed to be the primary care giver of their children ? Should it not be an immediate consequence that they forfeit this? Perhaps there would be fewer DV murders - JMO

 

[Nads]

I have just caught the tail end of Australian Story - tonight it was about DV case in Mirrabooka. I will watch tomorrow on iview. Basically a man who has admitted to killing his wife who was living in a refuge, has been sentenced to just 5 years in prison, has been setting himself up to looking after his children, when he gets out. I have one big issue about this - why is any person who is accused or suspected of murdering their spouse be allowed to be the primary care giver of their children ? Should it not be an immediate consequence! Perhaps there would be fewer DV murders - JMO

That's maddening on both counts. The ridiculous sentence and the possibility of custody!! :banghead:

 

[Gemini Girl]

I have to agree Dodo. Although I don't know if it has already been mentioned but was the car parked out the front of the vacant home of LR work associates?

Yes, I think it was Jac, though can't find the specific link

:twocents:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

Thanks Solaris, that is very interesting. My heart aches for the Roberts family too, how tragic for them. Yet how amazing that they may play a part in obtaining justice for Corryn.

Yes, the Lord (or fate or Karma) moves in a mysterious way indeed.

:moo:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

Thanks GG It is lovely to see some names I recognise here in an equally gripping and sad case. Thanks to all of you who are helping us to familiarise ourselves with the details. And welcome too linette!

It is great to have more sleuthers from "over East" as the Sandgropers like to call the whole of the rest of the country :floorlaugh: joining in on this forum. No offence guys, I was one of you for ten years.

Of course quite a few Sandgropers have been involved in the Allison Baden-Clay forum for quite some time too, so any 'divisions" are non existent.

One of the things I have found that makes being involved in this forum from Brissie a bit disjointed for me, is that often the locals make comments after I have tottered off to my bed, due to the time difference, and so then I find myself posting responses to them in what looks like a solid block the next morning, well before they are in a position to rejoin the discussion.

It is not that I am trying to dominate the forum in any way folks, "just the way the world works" (in joke for Queenslanders there, lol).

Let's hope our efforts here will help secure justice for Corryn, no matter where we are located.

:jail: :jail:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

JAC6007 - I doubt that most people would think of such a trivial item as a hankie might be traceable to a single store - especially if bought in Bali. It is certainly not something anyone would plant in order to incriminate someone.

I seem to recall that the prosecution claim that DNA was on the hankie - it was definitely not Corryn's, but they could not eliminate the possibility that it came from LR.

I have been thinking about the bollard and why there was a trail of oil on the way in but the car was still able to be driven after burying the body. I think the car may have hit the concrete base on the way in causing a little leak but on the way out the underside of the car hit the concrete again and caused a bigger leak after which the car would have lost significantly more oil, started to overheat, smoke and become noisy and powerless.

Not sure about hit man being involved but irrespective of who did it, I firmly believe that LR is behind it. There are just too many coincidences in my view.

JMO

Good points mouse

:rocker:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

BBM

This report is inaccurate - it appears that the zip was missing several teeth not Corryn Rayney.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/14404169/rayney-defence-attacks-seed-claims/

"Photos showing tears in Mrs Rayney's shirt were also tendered. When Mrs Rayney was found the zip of her jeans was broken, with several teeth from the fly missing, and her belt was undone. However, there was no evidence she had been the victim of a sexual assault."

Ah, thanks for that clarification mouse!

:twocents:

JMO MOO

 

[Gemini Girl]

Again with the teeth!

I agree with the surprise element. I also wouldn't be surprised if the shovel was also the murder weapon. Only one thing to dispose of then. Less likely to get injured on the hands too than if you did a punch. Though if you pulled someone from behind it would be then hard to hit them with a shovel! Also, would need premeditation, unless you were in the yard. Unlikely. I'm not a good sleuther, I'm getting all mixed up!

You are a fine sleuther Nads, getting mixed up is all part of the process lol

:waitasec:

JMO MOO

 

[YoureNicked]

I have to agree Dodo. Although I don't know if it has already been mentioned but was the car parked out the front of the vacant home of LR work associates?

From the notes I took the day I attended the trial. Take or leave this info as you wish.

Apparently the car was located out the front of 25 Kershaw Street. It was located almost directly opposite of lawyer and witness Mark Trowell's house and on the other side of the road from Trowell's house.

Trowell said he noticed the car in the street for a few days before he discovered whose it was but he hadn't taken much notice of it because many people park their cars out the front of their houses in that street.

Michael Webb also lived on Kershaw Street but on the opposite side of road to Trowell. I know the number of the house but the court has suppressed it ('due to the nature of his work' was the reason given) so I guess I shouldn't report it here.

(IMO the suppression of the address may also be because Webb's wife Linda Black is also a barrister and was LR's bridge partner.)

I guess I can say that Webb's house number is an even number and less than 14.

 

[YoureNicked]

BBM

This report is inaccurate - it appears that the zip was missing several teeth not Corryn Rayney.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/14404169/rayney-defence-attacks-seed-claims/

"Photos showing tears in Mrs Rayney's shirt were also tendered. When Mrs Rayney was found the zip of her jeans was broken, with several teeth from the fly missing, and her belt was undone. However, there was no evidence she had been the victim of a sexual assault."[/QUOT

I think you're right, mouse detective. I think the reporter who reported that it was Corryn's teeth that were missing (rather than the teeth of the zipper) probably misheard in the court room. (Or else they didn't know that that's what the little metal bits on a zipper are also called...teeth! Wouldn't surprise me!)

Haven't heard from any other sources that Corryn was missing teeth so I think you are right.

Good thinking!

 

[YoureNicked]

It is great to have more sleuthers from "over East" as the Sandgropers like to call the whole of the rest of the country :floorlaugh: joining in on this forum. No offence guys, I was one of you for ten years.

Of course quite a few Sandgropers have been involved in the Allison Baden-Clay forum for quite some time too, so any 'divisions" are non existent.

One of the things I have found that makes being involved in this forum from Brissie a bit disjointed for me, is that often the locals make comments after I have tottered off to my bed, due to the time difference, and so then I find myself posting responses to them in what looks like a solid block the next morning, well before they are in a position to rejoin the discussion.

It is not that I am trying to dominate the forum in any way folks, "just the way the world works" (in joke for Queenslanders there, lol).Let's hope our efforts here will help secure justice for Corryn, no matter where we are located.

:jail: :jail:

JMO MOO

BBM

Same here, GG -- I just catch up on the posts and then post all my responses in one block, then go off to work lol.

Plus, when there were only a few posters, 'domination' was what it was going to look like, because there were so few people who were here.

Anyway, I just think people should post their thoughts, when it's convenient for them.

I'm not in competition with anyone. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone and I am not out to be prove that I am a better thinker/writer or sleuther than anyone else.

I just want the one who killed Corryn to get caught!

Love your work, your posts and your humble nature

 

[Gemini Girl]

BBM

Same here, GG -- I just catch up on the posts and then post all my responses in one block, then go off to work lol.

Plus, when there were only a few posters, 'domination' was what it was going to look like, because there were so few people who were here.

Anyway, I just think people should post their thoughts, when it's convenient for them.

I'm not in competition with anyone. I don't think I'm smarter than anyone and I am not out to be prove that I am a better thinker/writer or sleuther than anyone else.

I just want the one who killed Corryn to get caught!

Love your work, your posts and your humble nature

Aw thanks, Your Nicked

:blushing:

And agree, it's all about nailing the correct b*%^@*d

:jail:

JMO MOO

 

[YoureNicked]

Seed Pods not Photographed in Hair But Were Removed First and Then Photographed

I'm really surprised that this was done. I'd have thought that the body and anything attached to it would have been photographed as it was found and then left untouched until the post mortem examination, when all would have been examined.

Yes, I'm thinking of what they do in TV shows like CSI so I could be totally wrong here...but it sure seems to make more sense than 'tampering' with the body before the post mortem examination/autopsy.

MOO


http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/key-evidence-missed-for-months-rayney-trial-20120730-239ro.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...rns-on-tiny-find/story-e6frg6nf-1226438929049

 

[Gemini Girl]

Seed Pods not Photographed in Hair But Were Removed First and Then Photographed

I'm really surprised that this was done. I'd have thought that the body and anything attached to it would have been photographed as it was found and then left untouched until the post mortem examination, when all would have been examined.

Yes, I'm thinking of what they do in TV shows like CSI so I could be totally wrong here...but it sure seems to make more sense than 'tampering' with the body before the post mortem examination/autopsy.

MOO


http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/key-evidence-missed-for-months-rayney-trial-20120730-239ro.html

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...rns-on-tiny-find/story-e6frg6nf-1226438929049

Agreed YN, seems to me if they had photographed the pods being removed from her hair then probably not an issue (as long as the body, staff and location were clear, and the photograph dated and timed) but if not, the defence will be able to introduce doubt I suspect.

Again, I hope this apparent procedural error is something QPS have learned from.

:banghead:

JMO MOO