Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[FigTree]

Respectfully snipped by me

I still feel terribly sad that a young promising life has been tragically lost BUT I'm also really upset that so many resources and so many people where involved in such a massive search when Gary voluntarily left the Fairmont to source drugs.

Another thought about this ... you got me thinking...
The search was the biggest ever conducted in the Mountains.
Ive always wondered why, and thought it might have to do (in part) with the profiles of Oracle, The Fairmont, Tourism, and the Police - but apart from that ..

much of the information given through Main Stream Media and Police has been so minimal and clouded - piecemeal, that I now have the impression that they weren't just looking for a young man who went for a walk and disappeared. That has happened a hundred times this year.

I think this Search & Rescue op was huge because Police believed something else had happened to Gary - more than lost, foul play and running away - he could have come to grief at the hands of someone else, or someone else's involvement.

Now we know there were other people and circumstances involved - (all in hindsight) it makes sense Police said nothing.

But what it has done is make it look like a dirty little secret, and some may feel robbed of the facts. But, I believe people would have still searched even if they had known early and upfront about what was going on. And I'm glad they did search so thoroughly - if anything has happened to Gary other than 'misadventure' Police have covered the ground.

I'm sure there's a whole heap of information (now) we don't know about too.

 

[Stinneb]

I guess one way to see it Indigo, is that in this day and age, when so very many people are on drugs sometimes,- that to withdraw from humanitarian gesturing toward those on drugs is to do so in relation to such a large part of the population.

While I sort of agree with you, Lexis, I musts say I tend to agree more with Indigo. Because this a completely different story than the one i initially started 'following'. We all have different perspectives and I really don't think we are here to judge and especially not someone who is no longer alive and who we never knew. But I do feel that there is a major difference between the profile of Gary as he was initially decribed - almost squeeky clean and close to perfection. Cocaine can be quite a potent drug and if that is something you do regularly, not only does it say a lot about you as a person (IMO) but it also says a lot about the possibility of him disappearing and still being alive let alone where to find him! Would I have thought there was any chance he was still alive if all this information had been available from the beginning? Propably not. And would I believe the likeliness of him Falling off a giant mountain (which a lot of ppl here had quite a hard time believing, while police was pretty sure this was the case)? Yes, absolutely.

I also know that sleuthing family and friends is not ok but I feel like the thing that gets to me the most about this "new" Development in the case is that the best lead was the 17 min. phone call with the colleagues and they now don't seem to be ppl I would ever trust in any kind of way. And it makes me a Little bit angry that we were supposed to feel sorry for them. I would propably like to Invest more time and energy on other missing ppl since no one is completely "innocent" in this drug related case (seeing as how GT himself was propably doing something that can send you in prison for yrs, according to someone posting up thread).

These kinds of drugs will make a person do a lot of weird things (often agressive, I believe so bins being knocked over could very well be GT seeing as how he propably was on something already IMO).

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what we believe GT would do, or his friends if they were high on this because you don't act like a person normally would.
The way this is reported ticks me off because YES of course you can party without drugs. It is completely upsetting that large group of ppl find it acceptable to do cocaine on a regular basis. DON'T do drugs (this is to me the real story, not how GT sadly ended up dead. Can the lesson be learned soon, please!!). I will now stop ranting and I will no longer follow this case. It is completely stupid to do drugs and it makes you do idiotic things. And you can even end up dead, half way down a big mountain. No big surprise or secret there. :stormingmad:

Everything my own opinion.

 

[Humdinger]

You know what, this all makes me so much more sad for Annika... Either she had no idea about his drug use and now she's lost her partner whom she loved so dearly and she'd be so unbelievably angry that his need for drugs ultimately killed him. OR she did know and either ignored it or did it to and she'd have to feel so bad that she allowed it to happen and didn't make him stop before it killed him

Everyone is a loser in this situation and his loving family more so because he put himself in a situation that that led to his death and it was totally avoidable!! If he didn't need cocaine that night, he'd still be here! His poor parents

I am not victim blaming, I'm more so having a go about the attitude to drugs and that people think they're OK, but they're NOT OK, people die because of the risks they take when on drugs, their inhibitions are reduced and they do things they wouldn't if they were straight.

It's all too sad and the media and the police now have an opportunity to use this as an example of the effects of drugs and u hope they don't waste that chance. I'm sure Gary didn't want to die and I'm sure he wouldn't want to see anyone else die unavoidably either, so this should be made about why not to do drugs!!

RIP Gary.

 

[Xantara]

It will be very interesting to see what 'recommendations' come out of the inquest. They'll go through everything, the police and emergency services operational response, the Oracle event, actions of persons at that event, the drug dealer ... So many issues to take into consideration. Personally, and this is just IMOO, I doubt that Oracle will ever host a 'conference' or 'event' of precisely this nature around Sydney again.

 

[SilkySifaka]

Given the description of how Gary left the Fairmont, I don't know if many people questioned whether he left voluntarily, no one could just work out WHY he ran out... And, as i said in an earlier post today too, i do think many people suspected drugs may have come into play in some form in this whole incident, but I also think any mention of drugs was very much kept at bay while the search was on, precisely to not distract or turn people off.

And really he was missing and deserved to be searched for, his father deserved some closure and to put his boy to rest, victims families are often forgotten about when there seems to be something bad about the victim but the search isn't just for the victim and they are a victim of themselves if nothing else. I don't see the fact he was on his way to a buy as making him less important to be found imo

 

[SilkySifaka]

Fair enough. But I'm far from impressed that searchers and Police Rescue risked their lives, not only in the search but the retrieval of the body.:twocents:

That is what they are there for, not to judge the value of someones life, if he is worthy of being searched for but to be nonjudgemental and find lost people and dead people. You would want it done for your child even if they had a drug history

 

[Lexis]

That is what they are there for, not to judge the value of someones life, if he is worthy of being searched for but to be nonjudgemental and find lost people and dead people. You would want it done for your child even if they had a drug history

I'm with you on that SilkySifaka.

But I do think the volunteers should have been given the heads up as to his likely state of mind.

 

[FigTree]

And really he was missing and deserved to be searched for, his father deserved some closure and to put his boy to rest, victims families are often forgotten about when there seems to be something bad about the victim but the search isn't just for the victim and they are a victim of themselves if nothing else. I don't see the fact he was on his way to a buy as making him less important to be found imo

Yes, its for the family and the loved ones - they need answers and closure if the worst comes to worst.
Many of the Searchers, official or volunteer, knew what was going on, and knew drugs maybe/were a factor. They still spent days in overalls trudging up and down hillsides - all 1,000 of them. I doubt any of them are going to turn around and say 'I'm not searching for anyone on drugs' - I don't think its in their nature. They may though, call him a 'silly b****rd' or a silly d***head - I may have uttered these words myself at times about all of this.

 

[FigTree]

I'm with you on that SilkySifaka.

But I do think the volunteers should have been given the heads up as to his likely state of mind.

Maybe they were?
:dunno:

 

[FigTree]

It will be very interesting to see what 'recommendations' come out of the inquest. They'll go through everything, the police and emergency services operational response, the Oracle event, actions of persons at that event, the drug dealer ... So many issues to take into consideration. Personally, and this is just IMOO, I doubt that Oracle will ever host a 'conference' or 'event' of precisely this nature around Sydney again.

The paperwork... :scared:

 

[fruity]

IMO but he doesn't look/seem like a daily user. Even if he was, his parents and girlfriend still deserved to have closure. We don't know why he turned to drugs. I know someone who, at that age, had an accident and was in hospital for months on super strong painkillers. They stopped the painkillers suddenly when this person was discharged and sure enough there were withdrawal symptoms and that person used drugs for the first time. Dux of the school, health freak, nobody would ever predict or guess that it would happen. If this person disclosed their brief drug use to people, most would laugh in disbelief. Anyway what I'm saying is that although I abhor drugs and would be devastated if my kids used them, it doesn't change my opinion of gary. I'm glad they found him. I'm glad people gave their time for him because I don't think anyone deserves to lay dead and undiscovered with their family wondering what happened to them.

 

[Humdinger]

We'll said fruity!

 

[Grainne Dhu]

This thread was brought to my attention and after reading the past five pages, I have a theory that may not have been offered previously.

It is possible that Gary exaggerated the amount of cocaine he was going to buy from his dealer. For instance, maybe he told his dealer that he was representing a group buy of $5000. That would almost certainly be worth it for his dealer to make the drive out there.

And then, once the dealer got out there, Gary may have admitted that people backed out of their contributions, etc, and he only had $1000 on him.

I don't know about the drug world in Australia but in the US, that would be enough to get him killed right there. Drug dealers are very sensitive to not being messed with because if they show the slightest sign of vulnerability or weakness, they're like to be killed themselves. Letting a customer get away with a ruse like that would not only enrage his dealer but could possibly endanger his dealer's life.

I wanted also to say that I agree with everyone saying that it is not the part of the police or SAR personnel to pre-judge who is worth looking for and who is not worth looking for. No matter what someone has done, no one deserves to die alone on a ledge in the cold and their family and loved ones forever in the dark as to their fate.

 

[indigo7]

I have to wonder if Oracle footed any part of the bill for the search and recovery mission.

I'm very pleased Gary was finally found and that his family & friends were able to give him a proper funeral & send off. I can't imagine not having closure - that would have been pure torture for his loved ones.

Gary's search and the news reports that accompanied his evolving story was quite an intense part of our community for several weeks- I just wonder if someone who lived locally went to purchase some goods would they also receive the same "service" for lack of a better word that Gary did if they suddenly went missing? As someone mentioned upthread maybe this was made into such a HUGE search and rescue/recovery mission because of the high profile company he worked for and the Resort he was staying at - massive damage control!

 

[SouthAussie]

Well, I for one am still really interested in how Gary ended up down that unusual, hard to reach, and well-hidden part of cliff. There is a lot, lot more to this story IMO.

I think FigTree has raised a really good and valid point that we should pay attention to. How did this end up being the biggest search ever conducted in the Blue Mountains? What made this so special?

I think that Pambos may have been full of *advertiser censored*. Maybe Gary:

a) Was going to purchase much, much more than 2.5g of cocaine, hence the incentive for Pambos to drive to the Blue Mountains. Pambos may have pulled that number out of a hat, being well-versed in the quantities that can lead to not much of a legal punishment, and the quantities that can lead to a very significant legal punishment. And, if this was the case, a great amount of money may have been involved (and be missing)

b) Was playing both sides – buying drugs from Pambos while quietly ‘helping police with their inquiries’ in relation to Pambos dealing large quantities of drugs around Sydney. This can happen if a person (Gary) was caught on a minor drug charge and told he could get out of it if he assisted police catch a bigger fish

c) Was seeking locals suppliers, maybe not to buy from them but maybe to sell to them, with drugs from Pambos (remember, he was supposedly already off his face, or acting that way – he may have brought enough stuff with him to take care of any personal wants).

This was THE LARGEST SEARCH EVER. Why??

Item b) above would be one answer. Police were afraid for Gary’s life after learning that Pambos number was recently dialled/received on Gary’s phone, learning that an imminent arrest was scheduled for Pambos in relation to the sale of large quantities of drugs (and maybe Pambos had been involved in drug-related violence before), learning that Pambos had been to the Blue Mountains that night, learning that Gary had been on his own out there waiting for Pambos, Anika ringing them to say ‘please, please search for Gary now – he’s in danger’.

David Tweddle’s words ring in my ears –

I love you unconditionally (no matter what you’ve got yourself mixed up in)

I’m never going back there (because police accused his son of dealing drugs – yes, procuring drugs for friends is dealing – and suggested he may be involved in bigger things, and he was outraged at the accusations)

There is something much more to this. What is it?

 

[Xantara]

Yes, its for the family and the loved ones - they need answers and closure if the worst comes to worst.
Many of the Searchers, official or volunteer, knew what was going on, and knew drugs maybe/were a factor. They still spent days in overalls trudging up and down hillsides - all 1,000 of them. I doubt any of them are going to turn around and say 'I'm not searching for anyone on drugs' - I don't think its in their nature. They may though, call him a 'silly b****rd' or a silly d***head - I may have uttered these words myself at times about all of this.

Yes, that puts it in the right perspective and sums it up perfectly, in my mind too, FigTree. Well said.

 

[indigo7]

Well, I for one am still really interested in how Gary ended up down that unusual, hard to reach, and well-hidden part of cliff. There is a lot, lot more to this story IMO.

I think FigTree has raised a really good and valid point that we should pay attention to. How did this end up being the biggest search ever conducted in the Blue Mountains? What made this so special?

I think that Pablos may have been full of *advertiser censored*. Maybe Gary:

a) Was going to purchase much, much more than 2.5g of cocaine, hence the incentive for Pablos to drive to the Blue Mountains. Pablos may have pulled that number out of a hat, being well-versed in the quantities that can lead to not much of a legal punishment, and the quantities that can lead to a very significant legal punishment. And, if this was the case, a great amount of money may have been involved (and be missing)

b) Was playing both sides – buying drugs from Pablos while quietly ‘helping police with their inquiries’ in relation to Pablos dealing large quantities of drugs around Sydney. This can happen if a person (Gary) was caught on a minor drug charge and told he could get out of it if he assisted police catch a bigger fish

c) Was seeking locals suppliers, maybe not to buy from them but maybe to sell to them, with drugs from Pablos (remember, he was supposedly already off his face, or acting that way – he may have brought enough stuff with him to take care of any personal wants).

This was THE LARGEST SEARCH EVER. Why??

Item b) above would be one answer. Police were afraid for Gary’s life after learning that Pablos number was recently dialled/received on Gary’s phone, learning that an imminent arrest was scheduled for Pablos in relation to the sale of large quantities of drugs (and maybe Pablos had been involved in drug-related violence before), learning that Pablos had been to the Blue Mountains that night, learning that Gary had been on his own out there waiting for Pablos, Anika ringing them to say ‘please, please search for Gary now – he’s in danger’.
David Tweddle’s words ring in my ears –

I love you unconditionally (no matter what you’ve got yourself mixed up in)

I’m never going back there (because police accused his son of dealing drugs – yes, procuring drugs for friends is dealing – and suggested he may be involved in bigger things, and he was outraged at the accusations)

There is something much more to this. What is it?

Some very lateral thoughts there SouthAussie well worth exploring (but for now I need to sleep because yet again this case has my mind buzzing all over again). I will say though that the sense of urgency only hours after Gary was reported missing was incredible - never have we had services knock on our doors and request to do a ground search whilst calling out Gary's name - "Gary are you there?" etc. This happened a few times over the first couple of days - it was very odd indeed like Gary was hiding or taking refuge.

 

[Xantara]

Well, I for one am still really interested in how Gary ended up down that unusual, hard to reach, and well-hidden part of cliff. There is a lot, lot more to this story IMO.

I think FigTree has raised a really good and valid point that we should pay attention to. How did this end up being the biggest search ever conducted in the Blue Mountains? What made this so special?

I think that Pablos may have been full of *advertiser censored*. Maybe Gary:

a) Was going to purchase much, much more than 2.5g of cocaine, hence the incentive for Pablos to drive to the Blue Mountains. Pablos may have pulled that number out of a hat, being well-versed in the quantities that can lead to not much of a legal punishment, and the quantities that can lead to a very significant legal punishment. And, if this was the case, a great amount of money may have been involved (and be missing)

b) Was playing both sides – buying drugs from Pablos while quietly ‘helping police with their inquiries’ in relation to Pablos dealing large quantities of drugs around Sydney. This can happen if a person (Gary) was caught on a minor drug charge and told he could get out of it if he assisted police catch a bigger fish

c) Was seeking locals suppliers, maybe not to buy from them but maybe to sell to them, with drugs from Pablos (remember, he was supposedly already off his face, or acting that way – he may have brought enough stuff with him to take care of any personal wants).

This was THE LARGEST SEARCH EVER. Why??

Item b) above would be one answer. Police were afraid for Gary’s life after learning that Pablos number was recently dialled/received on Gary’s phone, learning that an imminent arrest was scheduled for Pablos in relation to the sale of large quantities of drugs (and maybe Pablos had been involved in drug-related violence before), learning that Pablos had been to the Blue Mountains that night, learning that Gary had been on his own out there waiting for Pablos, Anika ringing them to say ‘please, please search for Gary now – he’s in danger’.

David Tweddle’s words ring in my ears –

I love you unconditionally (no matter what you’ve got yourself mixed up in)

I’m never going back there (because police accused his son of dealing drugs – yes, procuring drugs for friends is dealing – and suggested he may be involved in bigger things, and he was outraged at the accusations)

There is something much more to this. What is it?

I think the planned quantities of the drug deal came from phone records of either or both parties.

Even though we're not allowed to discuss family, there is something quite insightful that Gary's father wrote on his own page on a social networking site, in the form of a public post, on the day of his son's funeral.

As to how this came to be the largest search - not ever, anywhere - but ever, in the Blue Mountains... Yes, lots of professional searchers got involved, but the numbers were hugely bolstered by volunteers - locals, Gary's colleagues and friends. People who chose to involve themselves in the search, not because they were compelled to do it. I think social media and other forms of awareness raising (posters in the area) played a major role - again, the initiative of individuals.

Gary's story, because of its mysteriousness, just seemed to captivate attention and draw interest. And it caught the interest of an age group that are prime social media users. In 2006, the David Iredale disappearance on a bushwalk caught the public's attention and the publicity there would have been much greater had Facebook been going at full throttle in those days. But that was just about one year or two too early for that.

Another factor that made this so huge was the conflicting and drip feeding nature of the reports from msm and police. It really had people wracking their brains because the lack of sensible information flow had people baffled, almost to the point of trying to solve the case from their respective arm chairs...

The use of social media by the police themselves, part of the whole social media revolution and the explicit desire of the NSWPF to connect with the community through this medium and invite commentary, where appropriate, further added to the whole magnitude

But I think the single biggest factor remains that this story is just uniquely bizarre. Not a bush walker - the intention of Gary to leave the resort alone created a minefield of speculation. Why? Then the sighting of him. The reports of weird phone conversations. The allusions to him being under some kind of influence of something... Just so many things about the case that make it so unlike any other.

 

[Xantara]

Some very lateral thoughts there SouthAussie well worth exploring (but for now I need to sleep because yet again this case has my mind buzzing all over again). I will say though that the sense of urgency only hours after Gary was reported missing was incredible - never have we had services knock on our doors and request to do a ground search whilst calling out Gary's name - "Gary are you there?" etc. This happened a few times over the first couple of days - it was very odd indeed like Gary was hiding or taking refuge.

Oh, ok Indigo7, not being a local of the Blue Mtns, the detail you describe here was not known to me. I knew they were searching properties but it does sound like it was very intense in the first few days. IMOO I can only imagine that would have been fuelled by inside info that drugs may have been a factor. The police would surely have pinned the colleagues down as to what was said during that 17 min call and known HEAPS more than the little that was released to the public. I do believe they hoped they would find Gary alive back then, maybe just in some drug induced state and injured, and hence the idea that he may have crawled into some weird spot somewhere. At the earliest stages of the search, I myself found that searching of properties to be a bit unusual and asked the police about that, and they were very quick to point out to me that there is no assumption of anything 'sinister' in terms of some local having murdered him or something and dumped or hidden his body, but that this was just a legitimate part of their search strategy. I guess ultimately the hope back then was, that they would retrieve Gary from a possible hidey-hole somewhere, reunite him with family, loved ones and colleagues, and the whole thing could be more or less kept under wraps. I;m sure that would have been the very intense hope of Oracle of course, too, for obvious reasons.

 

[Xantara]

IMO but he doesn't look/seem like a daily user. Even if he was, his parents and girlfriend still deserved to have closure. We don't know why he turned to drugs. I know someone who, at that age, had an accident and was in hospital for months on super strong painkillers. They stopped the painkillers suddenly when this person was discharged and sure enough there were withdrawal symptoms and that person used drugs for the first time. Dux of the school, health freak, nobody would ever predict or guess that it would happen. If this person disclosed their brief drug use to people, most would laugh in disbelief. Anyway what I'm saying is that although I abhor drugs and would be devastated if my kids used them, it doesn't change my opinion of gary. I'm glad they found him. I'm glad people gave their time for him because I don't think anyone deserves to lay dead and undiscovered with their family wondering what happened to them.

No, don't believe he was a daily user either. Afterall, he had to keep down a job, at which he was doing well at, he got up at 5am three times a week for bootcamp - he seemed like a very highly functioning person. Ive never done drugs or been part of a scene, even on a recreational level, but I believe it's very common these days. Photos of Gary, not least the one published in the weekend's paper, suggest he liked to party, and I imagine if there was a big party on and he was surrounded by others who would take drugs, he'd do it too.
I myself do know, however, regular drug users (social, recreational), who hold down professional jobs, are academically highly intelligent, hugely into fitness, otherwise lead healthy lifestyles re what they eat, exercise, highly functioning people. Sometimes you really can;t tell.