Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Humdinger]

Excellent post South Aussie and good points xantara too.

 

[SouthAussie]

Good points Xantara .. but I'm still not convinced (and may never be) that Gary had any drugged or sober reason to wander off a cliff in that particular spot, especially now that I know there was a large-quantity drug dealer in the picture (one who was coincidentially arrested two short weeks after Gary went missing) ... driving a 3-hour round trip for a 2-minute, relatively small-change drop.

If Gary was found off a more accessible cliff, that would be easier for me to explain away. If his colleagues (and Pambos) didn't have such a darn good reason to cover their own arses, I could understand more. If Gary wasn't seen on Watkins Road, so close to the Farimont, where he could just turn around and walk back the way he came ....

There is not just one (or two) things that don't make any sense - to me there are an absolute multitude of things that don't add up.

And I know many people keep saying 'but drugs were involved - it doesn't have to make sense'. Yes it does ... even in a messed up, drug-related way ... it needs to make messed up, drug-related sense IMO.

 

[H A L 9 0 0 0]

Well, I for one am still really interested in how Gary ended up down that unusual, hard to reach, and well-hidden part of cliff. There is a lot, lot more to this story IMO.

I think FigTree has raised a really good and valid point that we should pay attention to. How did this end up being the biggest search ever conducted in the Blue Mountains? What made this so special?

I think that Pablos may have been full of *advertiser censored*. Maybe Gary:

a) Was going to purchase much, much more than 2.5g of cocaine, hence the incentive for Pablos to drive to the Blue Mountains. Pablos may have pulled that number out of a hat, being well-versed in the quantities that can lead to not much of a legal punishment, and the quantities that can lead to a very significant legal punishment. And, if this was the case, a great amount of money may have been involved (and be missing)

b) Was playing both sides – buying drugs from Pablos while quietly ‘helping police with their inquiries’ in relation to Pablos dealing large quantities of drugs around Sydney. This can happen if a person (Gary) was caught on a minor drug charge and told he could get out of it if he assisted police catch a bigger fish

c) Was seeking locals suppliers, maybe not to buy from them but maybe to sell to them, with drugs from Pablos (remember, he was supposedly already off his face, or acting that way – he may have brought enough stuff with him to take care of any personal wants).

This was THE LARGEST SEARCH EVER. Why??

Item b) above would be one answer. Police were afraid for Gary’s life after learning that Pablos number was recently dialled/received on Gary’s phone, learning that an imminent arrest was scheduled for Pablos in relation to the sale of large quantities of drugs (and maybe Pablos had been involved in drug-related violence before), learning that Pablos had been to the Blue Mountains that night, learning that Gary had been on his own out there waiting for Pablos, Anika ringing them to say ‘please, please search for Gary now – he’s in danger’.

David Tweddle’s words ring in my ears –

I love you unconditionally (no matter what you’ve got yourself mixed up in)

I’m never going back there (because police accused his son of dealing drugs – yes, procuring drugs for friends is dealing – and suggested he may be involved in bigger things, and he was outraged at the accusations)

There is something much more to this. What is it?

Just when you think nothing more will come out until the inquest...

Interesting points SouthAussie.

I personally think the first thing a person in the know would say to downplay any further involvement (if the police came a knocking, waving phone records) is "yes, we were going to meet up, but ended up losing contact and didn't meet up afterall".

I wonder too if the dealer's phone or vehicle was tracked into the Blue Mountains, or if an intermediary may have been involved in some way.

I also agree there may have been much larger quantities of drugs and cash involved here, afterall, it's the dealer's word and SouthAussie's reasoning for the dealer downplaying quantities sounds very likely.

 

[Xantara]

I must confess, that the more I think about the Pablos issue, my mind is starting to turn and possibly canvas other scenarios too, a la South Aussie.
For starters, the claim that the two 'lost contact' and did not meet up sounds lame and suss. As has previously been observed in this thread, Gary must have left the Fairmont and ran out of it for some reason - supposition would be that Pablos was close. Why else would Gary be standing on watkins rd and waving at cars?

The biggest mystery is why he ended up in the bush. And why was he running and jumping? Was he being chased? Was he trying to hide? One report from his mates indicated that he was begging them to stay on the phone. The weekend's msm refer to that same call as Gary sounding distressed. He was looking for lights on the hill, so he didnt seem to want to be in the bush. Im beginning to think he might have been chased or was trying to hide for some reason...

Just checked it is pambos not pablos

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Good points Xantara .. but I'm still not convinced (and may never be) that Gary had any drugged or sober reason to wander off a cliff in that particular spot, especially now that I know there was a large-quantity drug dealer in the picture (one who was coincidentially arrested two short weeks after Gary went missing) ... driving a 3-hour round trip for a 2-minute, relatively small-change drop.

If Gary was found off a more accessible cliff, that would be easier for me to explain away. If his colleagues (and Pablos) didn't have such a darn good reason to cover their own arses, I could understand more. If Gary wasn't seen on Watkins Road, so close to the Farimont, where he could just turn around and walk back the way he came ....

There is not just one (or two) things that don't make any sense - to me there are an absolute multitude of things that don't add up.

And I know many people keep saying 'but drugs were involved - it doesn't have to make sense'. Yes it does ... even in a messed up, drug-related way ... it needs to make messed up, drug-related sense IMO.

IMO it makes sense. He was off his face, he got lost, thought he was a 'Bear Grylls' or whatever, took the wrong turn down that street and ended up off the cliff. Very sad, very sorry for his family. Don't take back what I said about people risking their lives in the search. Of course they will/did do it. It's in the nature.
Lifesavers do it every day when tourists hurl themselves into the surf at Bondi and are non-swimmers. Idiots go bushwalking without proper equipment and supplies and have to be searched for. Others go off on yachts again without proper equipment. Doesn't take away the imbalance in the situation when one has to risk their own life due to another's stupidity. Not having a go at this victim or his family, just generally commenting. Of course I'm glad he was found, his family have closure, he deserved a decent burial.

As to Mr CP the dealer, the least said about him probably the better. He's been charged so is before the courts now. Will keep an eye on the lists. :twocents:

 

[SouthAussie]

I must confess, that the more I think about the Pablos issue, my mind is starting to turn and possibly canvas other scenarios too, a la South Aussie.
For starters, the claim that the two 'lost contact' and did not meet up sounds lame and suss. As has previously been observed in this thread, Gary must have left the Fairmont and ran out of it for some reason - supposition would be that Pablos was close. Why else would Gary be standing on watkins rd and waving at cars?

The biggest mystery is why he ended up in the bush. And why was he running and jumping? Was he being chased? Was he trying to hide? One report from his mates indicated that he was begging them to stay on the phone. The weekend's msm refer to that same call as Gary sounding distressed. He was looking for lights on the hill, so he didnt seem to want to be in the bush. Im beginning to think he might have been chased or was trying to hide for some reason...

Just checked it is pambos not pablos

BBM

Woops .. thanks. Just edited my post. I think in his current legal predicament, Pambos may appreciate the change of name.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO it makes sense. He was off his face, he got lost, thought he was a 'Bear Grylls' or whatever, took the wrong turn down that street and ended up off the cliff. Very sad, very sorry for his family. Don't take back what I said about people risking their lives in the search. Of course they will/did do it. It's in the nature.
Lifesavers do it every day when tourists hurl themselves into the surf at Bondi and are non-swimmers. Idiots go bushwalking without proper equipment and supplies and have to be searched for. Others go off on yachts again without proper equipment. Doesn't take away the imbalance in the situation when one has to risk their own life due to another's stupidity. Not having a go at this victim or his family, just generally commenting. Of course I'm glad he was found, his family have closure, he deserved a decent burial.

As to Mr CP the dealer, the least said about him probably the better. He's been charged so is before the courts now. Will keep an eye on the lists. :twocents:

Well, you're not alone LB.

But when you study where Gary was found .. 2km from where he was sighted waiting for his dealer, in an inaccessible area, with a lot of trees/shrubs/scrub to get through in the dark cold winter's night, dressed in shirtsleeves, after midnight, with absolutely no reason to be anywhere near there .. I just can't relate that to stupid accidents while bushwalking, or yachting, or swimming in rough surf.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Well, you're not alone LB.

But when you study where Gary was found .. 2km from where he was sighted waiting for his dealer, in an inaccessible area, with a lot of trees/shrubs/scrub to get through in the dark cold winter's night, dressed in shirtsleeves, after midnight, with absolutely no reason to be anywhere near there .. I just can't relate that to stupid accidents while bushwalking, or yachting, or swimming in rough surf.

There's just one problem here - assuming as some have done that Gary and 'Pablos' had done business before, most likely Gary knew what car he drove. I don't believe he was waiting for him in Watkins road, I think by then he was disoriented and waving down the car for help. Wasn't he supposed to be on the phone to his mates at the same time?
If he took the wrong turn into Sublime Point road he could have ended up where he did. In the dark even without the effect of substances it would be easy to get lost.
And the shirt sleeves are possibly explained by the fact that he didn't expect to be gone for long.
Either way, he got lost while out doing something 'stupid'.
Whatever 'Pablos' did or didn't do will come out in the wash. Expect he would be glued to his phone and we know they tell the story Phones and cameras including motorways. Sydney is infested with them. :twocents:

 

[Lexis]

Maybe they were?
:dunno:

Sure.... there were indications it had been mentioned due to the strategies eg. asking folk to check under their houses and verandas (or such), suggestions he was perhaps wandering eg SES checking peoples gardens far away from Fairmont.

It did occur to me as SES were checking peoples back yards..... what would have transpired if people had said 'no' to having their property searched? I presume it was voluntary.

 

[Lexis]

It has bugged me that it was reported that colleagues said he was on Watkins Rd and they were asking him to check letterboxes for location AND it was reported that colleagues said he said he was lost in the bush apparently all in One 17 min call. Could this all have been the case within a timespan of 17 minutes? Not if the bush he was referring to was near the spot he was found as that is about 20-25 mins away from the juncture of Watkins Rd and Sublime point Rd.
My belief is that, if msm is anything to go by, these scenarios were divided between more than one phone call.

If so, which scenario came first. ie was he first lost in the bush and later on Watkins Rd or visa versa?
I tend to think visa versa.
If so why did he end up where he was if he had been standing on a road, the name of which was known to him and colleagues? He wasn't very lost then. Incidentally, Watkins Rd is not a long road. Had he walked back along Watkins Rd, he would have seen the big Fairmont Resort sign at the entrance and juncture with Sublime Point Rd. Somehow, it seems, he turned right which is Obviously not back to the Fairmont but rather along Sublime Point Rd, a wide, lit road. Why then plunge into the darkness of bushland?

Endless questions.:fence:

 

[YidArmyRach]

Some very lateral thoughts there SouthAussie well worth exploring (but for now I need to sleep because yet again this case has my mind buzzing all over again). I will say though that the sense of urgency only hours after Gary was reported missing was incredible - never have we had services knock on our doors and request to do a ground search whilst calling out Gary's name - "Gary are you there?" etc. This happened a few times over the first couple of days - it was very odd indeed like Gary was hiding or taking refuge.

Like if he had argued with someone and ran from the resort?

I need to word this carefully, as I'm not accusing anyone, just putting forward a scenario which would tie up a few loose ends.

What if someone had been in a fight or an argument and had ended up being killed accidently -say a punch which caused them to knock their head on the ground. Or they were accidently hit by a car and killed. The person or people involved would need to cover it up. They put the body over a cliff, or dump it in the bush ...... then need to explain that person's absence.

So, they say he has gone for a walk in the bush, and got lost. Perfect. Unlikely that the body would ever get found (unless by some twist of fate it gets lodged on a tree!). But even if the body is found, it has all previously been explained - as they've already said he was lost in the bush. No one will be surprised is someone is found dead after a night exposed in the cold. If the body never gets found, well its lost in the bush.

No one is suspicious, because right from the start, witnesses have said the missing person went off, on their own accord, into the bush ...... well, maybe a couple of WS members might be!

All comes down to that 17 minute phone call ..... all that can be proven is that Gary's phone was used for 17 minutes. Not necessarily by him. Maybe Gary's mobile was used by someone who was with him at the time, and needed to call mates for assistance. Records would show that "Gary" had called his colleagues ...... well that's the conclusion people would jump to. What if someone else had used it to call Gary's colleagues, how would anyone know? Especially if they all said they had spoken to Gary.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, YidArmyRach and indigo7…. ties right in with Anika’s comment on FB (then picked up by MSM).


"On Tuesday morning Ms Haigh posted: ‘‘Your time of hide and seek needs to end now though please …..”

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1751465/body-discovery-crushes-girlfriend/


Some will think she was speaking metaphorically, but I always thought this was a very unusual way to express things. I'm not sure that she ever thought (or expressed) that Gary was 'lost'. Just that she wanted him to come home ... preferably alive. (Which is one of the reasons why I initially thought that Gary could have disappeared voluntarily).

And still … that word ‘accident’ never being used by any of Gary’s loved ones ... not his mum, not his dad, not Anika .... not in MSM or social media.



(O/T … for any south/south-eastern Aussies here … is it time for the wild wind to stop yet?!!)

 

[indigo7]

Sure.... there were indications it had been mentioned due to the strategies eg. asking folk to check under their houses and verandas (or such), suggestions he was perhaps wandering eg SES checking peoples gardens far away from Fairmont.

It did occur to me as SES were checking peoples back yards..... what would have transpired if people had said 'no' to having their property searched? I presume it was voluntary.

Yes...property checking was voluntary. I imagine a lot of older people or single households would have felt quite reluctant & intruded upon when 3-4 big SES fellas rock up at your front door asking to search your property for a missing man without giving out any details. I said "no" the 2nd time they came as I have animals so therefore I did the check myself.

I'll also point out again (did so back in thread 1 or 2) that Gary's "MISSING PERSON" posters were up everywhere very early on the next morning. There was definitely a sense of URGENCY that he be found or that any information be relayed to CRIME STOPPERS asap. We were rather surprised that it was so quickly a case for CRIME STOPPERS but then again I'm not sure what the standard procedures are in NSW for "Missing Persons." I'd say given what has been revealed this week that the police knew from Gary's colleagues pretty early on that there was a drug deal going on that night and that's why Gary had left the Hotel.

If the dealer (who was known to Gary) was not familiar with the area or if he didn't want to take the 3 hour round trip late on a cold winters night to drop off the drugs then he could quite possibly have sent someone else to do the exchange and that's why he and Gary never "met up" that night.

Gary could quite well have jumped in the car with the designated dealer at Watkins Rd and driven straight out along Sublime Pt Rd. He may have tested the goods out there and then gone "off" running through the bush and down to the area he was finally retrieved from.

Whose to say there was any physical cash exchange - now days with mobile phones you can tap them together to transfer funds between one user and another. There's also direct deposit, paypal etc etc. Either way the Police would see if there had been any large withdrawals from any of Gary's accounts or the work colleagues accounts in any format.

Whilst I don't know how the NSW Police Force operates I did find it interesting that Blue Mountains Police made the arrest of Pambos in Sydney - they must have been watching him for a while and waiting for a BIG enough bust to put him away. "Blue Mountains police arrested Mr Pambos after he allegedly supplied more than $30,000 of cocaine and $800 worth of MDMA in Sydney on August 2."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cocaine-a...s-fatal-end-20130928-2ul59.html#ixzz2gQ7d6Doh

 

[SouthAussie]

I'll also point out again (did so back in thread 1 or 2) that Gary's "MISSING PERSON" posters were up everywhere very early on the next morning. There was definitely a sense of URGENCY that he be found or that any information be relayed to CRIME STOPPERS asap. We were rather surprised that it was so quickly a case for CRIME STOPPERS but then again I'm not sure what the standard procedures are in NSW for "Missing Persons." I'd say given what has been revealed this week that the police knew from Gary's colleagues pretty early on that there was a drug deal going on that night and that's why Gary had left the Hotel.

Whilst I don't know how the NSW Police Force operates I did find it interesting that Blue Mountains Police made the arrest of Pambos in Sydney - they must have been watching him for a while and waiting for a BIG enough bust to put him away. "Blue Mountains police arrested Mr Pambos after he allegedly supplied more than $30,000 of cocaine and $800 worth of MDMA in Sydney on August 2."

RSBM

BBM

Good pick up indigo7! Very interesting that Blue Mountains police made the arrest.

Especially when the crime was committed in the inner west, over an hour away from the Blue Mountains, and probably at least several police jurisdictions away. Now why would that be?


"Meanwhile, Pambos was arrested by police who allege he supplied cocaine and MDMA to users in Sydney's inner west and he is expected to enter a plea to Burwood Local Court in October."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national...as-seriously-wasted-the-night-he-went-missing

 

[Lexis]

Yes...property checking was voluntary. I imagine a lot of older people or single households would have felt quite reluctant & intruded upon when 3-4 big SES fellas rock up at your front door asking to search your property for a missing man without giving out any details. I said "no" the 2nd time they came as I have animals so therefore I did the check myself.

I'll also point out again (did so back in thread 1 or 2) that Gary's "MISSING PERSON" posters were up everywhere very early on the next morning. There was definitely a sense of URGENCY that he be found or that any information be relayed to CRIME STOPPERS asap. We were rather surprised that it was so quickly a case for CRIME STOPPERS but then again I'm not sure what the standard procedures are in NSW for "Missing Persons." I'd say given what has been revealed this week that the police knew from Gary's colleagues pretty early on that there was a drug deal going on that night and that's why Gary had left the Hotel.

If the dealer (who was known to Gary) was not familiar with the area or if he didn't want to take the 3 hour round trip late on a cold winters night to drop off the drugs then he could quite possibly have sent someone else to do the exchange and that's why he and Gary never "met up" that night.

Gary could quite well have jumped in the car with the designated dealer at Watkins Rd and driven straight out along Sublime Pt Rd. He may have tested the goods out there and then gone "off" running through the bush and down to the area he was finally retrieved from.

Whose to say there was any physical cash exchange - now days with mobile phones you can tap them together to transfer funds between one user and another. There's also direct deposit, paypal etc etc. Either way the Police would see if there had been any large withdrawals from any of Gary's accounts or the work colleagues accounts in any format.

Whilst I don't know how the NSW Police Force operates I did find it interesting that Blue Mountains Police made the arrest of Pambos in Sydney - they must have been watching him for a while and waiting for a BIG enough bust to put him away. "Blue Mountains police arrested Mr Pambos after he allegedly supplied more than $30,000 of cocaine and $800 worth of MDMA in Sydney on August 2."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/cocaine-a...s-fatal-end-20130928-2ul59.html#ixzz2gQ7d6Doh

There was a sense or urgency, perhaps partly due to the weather predicted to turn colder.

I think that is a very possible scenario Indigo, including re- GT testing the stuff but then why was no stuff 'items' found on him. Had he been robbed and not handed drugs to take back?

(also wonder if CP's marketing business could have been the route for monies)

 

[indigo7]

Like if he had argued with someone and ran from the resort?

I need to word this carefully, as I'm not accusing anyone, just putting forward a scenario which would tie up a few loose ends.

What if someone had been in a fight or an argument and had ended up being killed accidently -say a punch which caused them to knock their head on the ground. Or they were accidently hit by a car and killed. The person or people involved would need to cover it up. They put the body over a cliff, or dump it in the bush ...... then need to explain that person's absence.

So, they say he has gone for a walk in the bush, and got lost. Perfect. Unlikely that the body would ever get found (unless by some twist of fate it gets lodged on a tree!). But even if the body is found, it has all previously been explained - as they've already said he was lost in the bush. No one will be surprised is someone is found dead after a night exposed in the cold. If the body never gets found, well its lost in the bush.

No one is suspicious, because right from the start, witnesses have said the missing person went off, on their own accord, into the bush ...... well, maybe a couple of WS members might be!

All comes down to that 17 minute phone call ..... all that can be proven is that Gary's phone was used for 17 minutes. Not necessarily by him. Maybe Gary's mobile was used by someone who was with him at the time, and needed to call mates for assistance. Records would show that "Gary" had called his colleagues ...... well that's the conclusion people would jump to. What if someone else had used it to call Gary's colleagues, how would anyone know? Especially if they all said they had spoken to Gary.

INTERESTING YidArmyRach - and maybe that's why Gary's phone has NEVER been located as far as we know!

The very next morning as the huge garbage trucks drove by our thoughts went to the "murder & dumping" scenario. But as the search scaled up with helicopters,ground searchers,dogs,abseilers etc along with that massive police command centre at The Fairmont we just assumed he really must have been missing or lost!

What about the CCTV footage showing only Gary leaving the resort and the reported sighting of him on Watkins Rd?

There would also (imo) have been visible scratches on anyone who went through that dense bushland near to where Gary was located. Maybe he was put there later as has been previously suggested!

 

[indigo7]

There was a sense or urgency, perhaps partly due to the weather predicted to turn colder.

I think that is a very possible scenario Indigo, including re- GT testing the stuff but then why was no stuff 'items' found on him. Had he been robbed and not handed drugs to take back?

(also wonder if CP's marketing business could have been the route for monies)

These young guys are super SMART and very techy - they know how to do their laundry!

 

[Humdinger]

I'd love to know what else was seen on the CCTV outside the Fairmont! Did the others leave to go looking? Or did they just sit in their room trying to call?

 

[Lexis]

There would also (imo) have been visible scratches on anyone who went through that dense bushland near to where Gary was located. Maybe he was put there later as has been previously suggested!

It is a strange place to end up.
There is no track from the golf course to around the ridge top exiting at Sublime point Lookout. If there were, it would be believable that he was getting to or from the end of Sublime Point Rd, by foot, maybe wanting to avoid the road, stay out of sight for some reason.

I can't fathom why he would enter the bushland eg from the end of West St. He would have had to walk down Sublime point Rd and turn right into west St. Did he just have to pee. Even then, a lot of guys wouldn't bother going far into bushland at that time of morning.

Or was he looking, hoping for a secluded track back from the Lookout?

 

[hwneyz]

Thankyou Figment!! Just processing all this information now - wow!

Partying: Gary Tweddle, left, on a night out. Photo: Supplied

SMH Read More...


.

Hmmmmm........was this picture taken the day/night Gary and his co-worker's arrived at the resort? Maybe a waiting area before checking in or having dinner? Does the background in this picture look familiar to any of the locals? One thing that i see is that Gary is wearing a light red and white either checked or stripe shirt and blue jeans. But what I also see is 2 other guys wearing checked shirts. (1) of them possibly of pink/purple (pink/blue) checked (depends how one sees it @ 12:00 midnight or thereof. Sooooo, jmoo, could it be possible that between 12:00-12:15 am that it wasn't Gary on Watkins Rd and maybe one of his co-workers, possibly worried......or possibly checking to see GARY'S welfare because of the possible larger amount of money and cocaine in play? Maybe he jumped in a car from the get go, maybe right down the hill from the resort. He did say something to the fact of being back in a minute. Maybe 1 co-worker caught that and realized that he wasn't even back in 5 or 10 minutes. Just food for thought. Sorry this picture got me wound up again. Just my speculation. We'll see what comes out of the corridors next.....:fence: