Found Deceased Australia - Gary Tweddle, 23, Blue Mountains NSW, 16 July 2013 - #3

[Xantara]

Does anyone feel duped?

No wonder we haven't heard a squeak from Oracle. All sounds a bit like closing ranks to me. I have to ask if the military background of certain persons in senior positions and/or positions of authority is behind this cone of silence.

A media statement about a zero tolerance drug policy within Oracle is LONG overdue.

We also now know what the police meant when they said that Gary had nothing on him. They weren't referring to his wallet folks....

?who would have been in a position to spread the rumours re Gary's subsequent location and demise at the Fairmont Resort??? Those close to the situation?? Very strange....

My understanding is it was local/s. Locals who claimed they obtained their information from 'reliable sources', which were suggested to be other locals, or employees at the Fairmont, or in one or two cases volunteers involved in the search.

 

[Xantara]

The more you think about it, the more twists and turns become apparent in this case - although this is just my own thinking and interpretation. One's mind drifts to various what-if scenarios...
Now that Pambos has been arrested and charged, that of course means a drug dealer is off the streets - for the time being. And the failed deal at Leura that night prevented Gary's colleagues from either becoming more wasted, if they had already consumed drugs, or from becoming so, with the cocaine Gary was going to procure.
But then you think, what if it had been different? What if Gary HAD managed to successfully meet with Pambos and had obtained the drugs. Not that I endorse drug dealing or taking. But in this instance you wonder, would that have meant Gary would have made it back? If the meeting had taken place on watkins rd or near the resort, wouldnt here have been a greater chance that gary would have found his way back and had some urgency to get back, with goods in hand, rather than to keep wandering the streets, perhaps in hope that Pambos might still appear by 2am?
So many what-ifs, and conflicted what-ifs at that...
And this also explains the duration of the 17 minute call, and why so little substance of what was said during that call has been released...

 

[sleepinoz]

IMO - Gary would have had to have heard from Pambos to say he was at the location, to have left the hotel the way he did, no Jacket. I imagine if he was nearby and Gary had to wait for him he would have taken his jacket (this is assuming he was in his right mind, which is doubtful)

Makes me wonder if Pambos did make it and then after driving all that way, Gary had no cash and was relying on their 'friendship' for credit. This wouldn't be a healthy way to treat your drug dealer.

 

[Lexis]

My understanding is it was local/s. Locals who claimed they obtained their information from 'reliable sources', which were suggested to be other locals, or employees at the Fairmont, or in one or two cases volunteers involved in the search.

several things come to mind

Pambos would likely have read the media reports about Gary being missing and saying he was 'lost in bushland' and so 'not meeting up with Gary' would have been a plausible line for Pambos to take, if he wanted to avoid suspicion.IMO

If the dogs had been totally employed on and around the edges of Watkins Rd on the day Gary went missing and Gary had been on Watkins Rd, IMO it lends more weight to the notion of Gary having gotten into a car on Watkins Rd.

I would imagine $1000 is an ok amount for a drug drive, especially if the dealer knows the buyer a bit socially as a mate- and or doing him a favour or it was sufficient money to do a drive, or because bigger business was a bit slow at that time etc.
Could be that Gary rang him in an agitated begging state or not, and Pambos thought to alleviate Gary's (& co's?) cravings and maybe cocaine, as opposed to say dope, is generally derived from Sydney sources so Gary couldn't source it in the Blue Mountains though he tried..

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder why Gary didn’t go back to the resort regardless of whether Pambos showed up or not.

If Gary had completed the deal, back to his mates and party on.

If Pambos never showed, back to the mates and give them back their portion of the cash.

Is there a chance that Pambos did show up and they went somewhere else to party (or for Pambos to do further business) for a while? It is hard to imagine Pambos making the trip to Leura and back for a 2-minute exchange with Gary and a (relatively) mere $1,000. He probably could have made more money just staying home.

Pambos is used to playing with the big boys, if he has access to $30,000 quantities of cocaine, as well as quantities of ecstasy. There needs to be an even bigger fish above him in the hierarchy .. and a lot of trust.

May be a big coincidence, but Gary goes missing when he is supposed to meet with Pambos, no-one can find Gary (who had absolutely no reason to wander into the bush), and Pambos is arrested two weeks later on major drug charges.

I have no idea what I’m getting at here, just thinking aloud ... it just all seems too odd!

 

[Lexis]

....... It is hard to imagine Pambos making the trip to Leura and back for a 2-minute exchange with Gary and a (relatively) mere $1,000. He probably could have made more money just staying home.

too odd!

On the other hand, speculatively speaking, a dealer would likely have liked to have made sure he pleased a customer such as Gary, if it were that Gary was a connection to more business in Oracle. After all, Oracle employees are probably well payed and so perhaps seen by a dealer as cashed up now and into the future.

On a Monday night, the dealer may have had a bit of spare time, unlike perhaps a Thursday night or weekend.
If he had no other business in the Blue Mountains apart from Oracle employees , he may have driven back to meet other appointments the next day in Sydney.

 

[SouthAussie]

I just don't see Gary as being that special of a customer. A gram or two, a little more on this occasion as he was probably buying for friends too, that would have lasted them the night and maybe the next day. Pambos could offload that in many Sydney nightspots on a Monday night. Or just hold onto it for later in the week.

IMO It is generally much safer for a dealer to get rid of all his drugs in one sell to a buyer he trusts, than to sell a bit here and a bit there, and drive all over the place getting rid of it. Flies under the radar better that way .. his name doesn't get spread all over town.

It's not like Pambos was going to Leura for a spot of golf and some sightseeing, so thought he'd drop some cocaine off to Gary while there - seeing as Gary had asked about it.

I still think it is a big coincidence that Gary went missing, and Pambos is arrested soon after.

 

[FigTree]

On the other hand, speculatively speaking, a dealer would likely have liked to have made sure he pleased a customer such as Gary, if it were that Gary was a connection to more business in Oracle. After all, Oracle employees are probably well payed and so perhaps seen by a dealer as cashed up now and into the future.

On a Monday night, the dealer may have had a bit of spare time, unlike perhaps a Thursday night or weekend.
If he had no other business in the Blue Mountains apart from Oracle employees , he may have driven back to meet other appointments the next day in Sydney.

It also doesn't specify if the dealer was close to the Mountains - it may have only been an hour drive if he was in a suburb close to the freeway.

 

[Lexis]

My understanding is it was local/s. Locals who claimed they obtained their information from 'reliable sources', which were suggested to be other locals, or employees at the Fairmont, or in one or two cases volunteers involved in the search.

I'll mention the following story as an aside. It is a true story indicating how twisted life can get.

Quite a number of years ago a friend of mine dropped by. She was very distressed as her close work colleague at the International Airport in Sydney, uncharacteristically hadn't shown up for work nor contacted anyone. A great search for her colleague was launched and many people from work and close friends and relatives were looking for her, including the colleagues boyfriend.

The next I knew, my friend dropped around once more, visibly shaken and told me that her colleagues boyfriend had been helping search for her and helping police with the search. He had had a few beers at a gathering recently and let slip several comments about his girlfriends disappearance which indicated he knew something about her disappearance. During questioning he confessed that he had murdered her, put her in his car boot and went off to socialise at a barbeque. He then led police to her body.

It was a very sickening experience for my friend.

 

[zwiebel]

A couple of possibilities I've learned of that could be reasons why tracker dogs failed to find Gary;

Drugs in the system can alter a person's scent
Cocaine can anaesthetise a dog's sense of smell
If Gary was already deceased, dogs searching for a live scent could have been overwhelmed by the scent of decomposition
Scent can dissipate on a highway rapidly, especially if it's a main route used by trucks
There is also the possibility of handlers failing to notice a dog indicating, or having preconceived notions of where a person is likely to be found, and conveying subconsciously to the dog that 'it's not worth looking here'.

These are just a few ideas from what I think could probably be endless reasons why dogs didn't find Gary. In my opinion the main reason Gary was missing so long is that when people had time to sober up and recognise the seriousness of the situation, they still did not come forward with total honesty about what had happened. That's what it seems like to me, anyway.

I wonder how police know the dealer never met Gary? Are they taking his word for it?

 

[Lexis]

If surveillance operations in Australia are anything like in America, as per this article, then perhaps they might have traced a lot about Gary's activities and others.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-links-organized-crime-families-together.html

 

[SouthAussie]

I'll mention the following story as an aside. It is a true story indicating how twisted life can get.

Quite a number of years ago a friend of mine dropped by. She was very distressed as her close work colleague at the International Airport in Sydney, uncharacteristically hadn't shown up for work nor contacted anyone. A great search for her colleague was launched and many people from work and close friends and relatives were looking for her, including the colleagues boyfriend.

The next I knew, my friend dropped around once more, visibly shaken and told me that her colleagues boyfriend had been helping search for her and helping police with the search. He had had a few beers at a gathering recently and let slip several comments about his girlfriends disappearance which indicated he knew something about her disappearance. During questioning he confessed that he had murdered her, put her in his car boot and went off to socialise at a barbeque. He then led police to her body.

It was a very sickening experience for my friend.

That's very sad Lexis. And quite gruesome that someone can act so blase and socialise, with their girlfriend's body in the boot.

I so hope Gary's life was worth more to everyone than 2.5g of cocaine, or $1,000.

But people do such horrible things to other people, as we see so much here on WS, and read/see in the media.

 

[indigo7]

And why ask a local where you can purchase Cocaine in the area at 11.00pm if you have a dealer saying the timeline of contact was between 10.00pm and 2.00am. What time were the arrangements made with the dealer? There's something wrong with the time line.
.

Yes...this really confused me today as well.

I'm thinking Gary got a text or call from his dealer when he was back at The Fairmont drinking in one of the hotel rooms saying he (the dealer) was almost there. Gary then went down to the lobby and ran out of the Hotel without glasses & jacket to meet the dealer. He went up the Fairmont driveway, hung around Watkins Rd for a while, kicked over a few bins whilst he was waiting and then waved at that car mentioned in the news reports thinking it was his dealer.

BIGGEST question is still HOW Gary got to the location he was found - so frustrating!!

As locals we are pretty upset that this has all been going on in our backyard and we have been kept in the dark - can't tell you how many sleepless nights I have had over this. Had I known it was drug related I personally would not have invested so much emotion into this. I still feel terribly sad that a young promising life has been tragically lost BUT I'm also really upset that so many resources and so many people where involved in such a massive search when Gary voluntarily left the Fairmont to source drugs.

 

[revampz]

Just saw this on the news.....well now we know.....the drug connection was real. I have not read all the comments, but I personally think he was under the influence of a drug..........doesn't sound like it was cocaine, but there are soooo many out there, and for the taxi driver to say he was seriously wasted. I experimented with drugs quite a bit when I was younger, and a couple of my friends were worse and that was years ago, before ice, ectasy, bath salts, synthetic hooch etc and we used to get "wasted" without drinking.

 

[Lexis]

Perhaps I'm way off the mark but-

Could it have been that the colleagues at The Fairmont spilled the beans about who Gary was going to meet to source drugs from ie. Pambos, and that led to Pambos being charged and questioned in relation to Gary?

 

[SouthAussie]

So did Gary ever get an answer about where to find drugs locally when he asked?

Did he then go and pursue that lead, when Pambos didn’t show?

I just don’t believe anything those colleagues said now. That 17 minute call was probably ‘he didn’t show’ .. ‘oh man, can you run down to Silks and catch up with that person again’ .. ‘I dunno, maybe’ .. ‘oh go on, it won’t take you long’ .. etc. etc.

And they were said to have tried to ring him numerous times after. Probably wondering when he’d be back with the drugs or their money. Residents on Watkins Rd heard noises ‘sometime between 12 & 2’. Well, now I’m thinking it was closer to 2 .. and that is when the colleagues decided to see if Gary was hanging around outside somewhere, or if they could see him heading back.

Just when did they think he was lost or something bad had happened to him? At 3:30am when they rang Anika?

Grrrr ..

 

[Lexis]

And why ask a local where you can purchase Cocaine in the area at 11.00pm if you have a dealer saying the timeline of contact was between 10.00pm and 2.00am. What time were the arrangements made with the dealer? There's something wrong with the time line.

.

(If all the news about drugs and the dealer is correct)

Figtree, I'm guessing he was 'out of it' anyway and might not have had a lot of awareness of time, perhaps the dealers arrival seemed like a distant and improbable dream and perhaps he was in a kind of 'low' and wanted a drug to counter that quickly.

Had he been in a conscious and 'with it' frame of mind, I doubt he would have RUN out of the resort anyway. After all, he had a mobile phone that was working and probably had the dealers number on his phone and could have explained to him that he was on his way and asked him to wait. Why fly out the door? That action in itself draws attention.
If he was going to buy for others, could not one other have driven him to meet the dealer.... why was Gary alone undertaking the task of procurement in a wasted state, potentially jeopardizing the crew?
Were others 'out of it' enough not to want to drive a car or did they all get to the Fairmont by bus/train?
Maybe Gary and the dealer had a misunderstanding about the meeting place.

 

[Xantara]

Perhaps I'm way off the mark but-

Could it have been that the colleagues at The Fairmont spilled the beans about who Gary was going to meet to source drugs from ie. Pambos, and that led to Pambos being charged and questioned in relation to Gary?

I gather from reports that it was Gary's phone records that revealed the planned drug deal. As a result of the police investigation

 

[Xantara]

Yes...this really confused me today as well.

I'm thinking Gary got a text or call from his dealer when he was back at The Fairmont drinking in one of the hotel rooms saying he (the dealer) was almost there. Gary then went down to the lobby and ran out of the Hotel without glasses & jacket to meet the dealer. He went up the Fairmont driveway, hung around Watkins Rd for a while, kicked over a few bins whilst he was waiting and then waved at that car mentioned in the news reports thinking it was his dealer.

BIGGEST question is still HOW Gary got to the location he was found - so frustrating!!

As locals we are pretty upset that this has all been going on in our backyard and we have been kept in the dark - can't tell you how many sleepless nights I have had over this. Had I known it was drug related I personally would not have invested so much emotion into this. I still feel terribly sad that a young promising life has been tragically lost BUT I'm also really upset that so many resources and so many people where involved in such a massive search when Gary voluntarily left the Fairmont to source drugs.

Given the description of how Gary left the Fairmont, I don't know if many people questioned whether he left voluntarily, no one could just work out WHY he ran out... And, as i said in an earlier post today too, i do think many people suspected drugs may have come into play in some form in this whole incident, but I also think any mention of drugs was very much kept at bay while the search was on, precisely to not distract or turn people off.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I gather from reports that it was Gary's phone records that revealed the planned drug deal. As a result of the police investigation

Exactly, phone records. Two people's phone records. The dealer is before the court so won't say too much, but guessing he isn't lily white. Police know who the dealers are.
Remember they said that dealers in the Blue Mountains had been interviewed after Gary's disappearance when the 'going to buy drugs' gem was disclosed.

Final word on the dogs. Police wouldn't bring those resources from Menai in Sydney just because some bloke went missing from his hotel room. They wouldn't have been there at daylight on the Tuesday morning.
Initially they were looking for someone who was possibly lost, not a body. Even so, the scent doesn't hang around that long.

ETA: We don't know what he had consumed before they went to dinner. If the same drug, even a small amount of alcohol can potentiate the effects of the drug.