Australia Australia - Jenny Cook, 29, Townsville, Qld, 19 Jan 2009

[Ausgirl]

All of this 'incompetence' (and apparent direct cover-up in Douglas Scott's case) of prison guard crime makes me wonder. What is the fear here? If a prison guard is convicted of a serious crime such as murder, would that have an effect on the treatment of guards in general, by the prison population? Would it put 'good' guards lives in jeopardy? Could it trigger prison riots? Why on earth would the govt/police seemingly work to protect them and absolve them from the consequences that are rightly due?

Corruption rarely happens in a single instance, and usually trickles down. People get promoted, change careers, cross over jobs.. politics.. police.. prison.. Idk. I think probably a 'network' is the answer there though. Expose one, and a whole heap may fall with them.

 

[laserdisc10]

All of this 'incompetence' (and apparent direct cover-up in Douglas Scott's case) of prison guard crime makes me wonder. What is the fear here? If a prison guard is convicted of a serious crime such as murder, would that have an effect on the treatment of guards in general, by the prison population? Would it put 'good' guards lives in jeopardy? Could it trigger prison riots? Why on earth would the govt/police seemingly work to protect them and absolve them from the consequences that are rightly due?

I hate the fact they've made me so cynical

but the answer to your question which first popped into my head was: ' Because they can'

Because they can and know they can get away with it

Because it's systemic

They've always done it

It's one of the perks of the job

As they say, a certain type of person is often drawn to certain occupations. Pyromaniacs are drawn to fire-fighting, for example. Sadists are drawn to teaching, to nursing, to medicine

To the bone crooks are drawn to the legal professions

Paedophiles are drawn to working with children


We know not all fire-fighters, prison guards, nurses, doctors, solicitors, judges, teachers, etc. are not guilty of the above offences. However, a proportion of those drawn to those professions aren't nice people at all. Same in all professions -- there's a percentage who should be kept away from civilized society

There are too many true accounts of prison-guard brutality and corruption for it all to be white-washed away or pronounced 'untrue'. Yes, there are some ratbags around. Cowards. Rapists. Brutes. Sadists. And some of them work in the prison system

As to why the government would tarnish Australia's reputation by covering-up? They always have, for a start. A lot of the reason lies in the fact that for every rotten prison guard, there's someone covering for them, joining in. And for all of those, there are others, some of them a bit senior. So for their own survival, they cover up. Then there are those above them -- same thing. All the way to the top

Reputations to save. Money, prestige, perks, etc

I read about a notorious paedophile from I think the 60s. In Sydney. Incorrigible. He was finally given a long sentence. I read the article. Can't remember his name. But according to what I read, the prison guards at Long Bay used to put pretty young boys in the cell of the notorious paedophile. Those prison guards catered to his sick appetites. And those same prison guards watched as those young boys were brutally raped. Then next week, another victim. On and on. Some of the rapes were probably filmed and sold. Other men, in the privacy of their homes, with their wives and children asleep down the hall, got off on watching those bootleg videos. We live in a sick society. We're lucky we don't know the half of it

Doug Scott told his wife many times how he was being beaten. Told her he'd never get out alive. He didn't. Prime Ministers play to the gallery with their apologies and insincerity, but they do nothing to stop what they pretend to cry about

I'd better stop. I'm going from cynical to outraged. Blood pressure .....

 

[laserdisc10]

Ausgirl


SNAP !


Are you my missing twin? Lol

 

[laserdisc10]

Well, here's the thing there - the balcony IS on that side of the house. I'm trying to figure out if it was covered or not (I mean, muffled howling from an enclosed space sounds quite different to open-air howling - I had a dog with separation anxiety, trust me, I know the difference).because she could have been hearing the dog from the balcony.

Oh, ok. Thanks. My idea of the house plan needs some work. Had it in my head the balcony was at the front, based on a photo I'd seen -- with Jenny at the side of the house

But if there was a balcony at the side --- above where Jenny was ? --- then I can see where you're going re: enclosed balcony or not. If enclosed by glass or plexiglass type stuff, it would muffle and distort the sound of the dog, no doubt

Wonder if the neighbour actually caught sight of the dog? I haven't found anything with that detail but someone might have

PC and Jenny had only been living there a couple of months, hadn't they? Not really long enough for neighbours to develop a 'sound map' of their new neighbours and dog, I suppose. The strength and direction of the wind would play a role too

If only the poor dog could talk :-(

 

[laserdisc10]

Makes me think of the cut on Jenny's neck that Mrs Pullen saw at the funeral home - was that Williams, checking for damage? How much of a coincidence was it then, that the night before her autopsy had even been done, Cook was talking about Jenny cutting her 'windpipe'? How would even come up with something so specific? He touched her face - surely he could SEE there was no throat wound? Did the police not explain to him what her injuries were?

So many freakin strange details all in one place. I've seen it in a very few other cases, and those were all staged. And possibly involved a cover-up. Go figure.

I'm glad you raised this. It's been on my mind. So much to remember with this messed up case ...

Yes, PC told Reis (?) the man he was staying with, about Jenny having sawn through her windpipe. He's a weird one, in my opinion only, that PC. Some of the things he's said. Reminds me of an eight year old who's watched too much online

The remark about 'ghosts' for example

The hacked-through windpipe

The remark to Jenny's mother about 'all the guys being attracted to the woman with breast enlargements'

Hallmark Cards will never employ him, that's for sure


As to Williams --- I'd better not speak my opinion of him

But Jenny's mother saw cuts on Jenny too. Don't know if that was included in the coroner's report or from the media, but I've definitely read it. And Williams pooh-poohed it away

I've said elsewhere that Williams is the crux of this entire matter. Initially, Jenny's death was regarded by police as 'suspicious' and as a 'homicide'. Then along came Williams. Pronounced it 'suicide'. And that was that. As one of the officers said at the coronial enquiry, the matter was down-graded from homicide to suicide, 'extremely swiftly'

After Williams weighed in, police dropped it, basically. DS Osborn messed things up even further, either deliberately or through sheer incompetence

My opinion: Williams should not have that amount of influence


Someone should have second-guessed him, opposed him, demanded at least one other independent autopsy, imo

 

[laserdisc10]

Oh, and another gem from PC

Did you see in the coronial findings where police noted PC told them that when he first came home and thought Jenny had left him, 'He was happy' ?

She left him alright. Via death. That should have made him ecstatic, shouldn't it?

 

[laserdisc10]

Makes me think of the cut on Jenny's neck that Mrs Pullen saw at the funeral home - was that Williams, checking for damage? How much of a coincidence was it then, that the night before her autopsy had even been done, Cook was talking about Jenny cutting her 'windpipe'? How would even come up with something so specific? He touched her face - surely he could SEE there was no throat wound? Did the police not explain to him what her injuries were?

So many freakin strange details all in one place. I've seen it in a very few other cases, and those were all staged. And possibly involved a cover-up. Go figure.

bbm


The board on which Jenny lay had vomit and blood as we know. Maybe some had congealed in the folds of Jenny's neck during the many hours she lay there? Giving PC the impression the throat had been cut? Just a thought ...

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Inquest into the death of Jenny Lee
Cook

There are many unusual circumstances surrounding the death of Ms Cook, if it is to
be accepted that she committed suicide:

 There was no suicide note although the evidence suggested that she was a
meticulous record keeper and kept up to 12 diaries;

 There was no event identified which would explain such an action when she
had been improving both physically and mentally;

 She was found lying on a plywood board which she would have found very
difficult to move to the site and had not been dragged to that position;

 She was wearing exercise attire including a large sun hat at the time of death;

 She had a sheet tied around her neck and head area with a bath robe tie and
it is likely that she was blindfolded when the knife pierced her chest;

 She apparently had spent some considerable time preparing the knife with
string and tape but those items were not found in the house (although the
police were not looking for them);

 There are no ‘hesitation’ or ‘practice’ wounds – only a single deep stab
wound;

 Her body had been moved after death but Mr Cook, the paramedics and the
police all state emphatically that they did not move her body;

 Ms Cook apparently chose a violent and painful method of suicide when she
had access to medication of which she could have ingested a fatal dose;

 Ms Cook apparently did not indicate to any person that she had been or was
contemplating suicide.

Whilst the only evidence obtained and now available, points to suicide, taking into
account the failures in the investigation, and the destruction of the knife in particular, I
am unable to determine whether Ms Cook’s death was the result of suicide and that
aspect of the finding must remain open.

Jane Bentley
Coroner
CAIRNS
6 December 2013

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've read through the coroner's findings twice now and it just boggles the mind how so much was overlooked or just ignored. Her summing up certainly means the case remains open. This investigation has to start from scratch imo. :thinking:

DS Osbourne didn't even know the knife was wrapped with string and tape? Why would Jenny pack away the string and tape if she is just about to commit suicide?
Why did DS Osbourne tell Jenny's mother, Ms Pullen, that only Jenny's fingerprints were found on the knife when no such tests were done?
According to Mr Cook's work colleague, Cook went home at 5.30 pm with a headache, so he went home early?

Why wasn't the laundry, bin or garage checked? :gaah:

There were no prints on window or window frame? Wouldn't a person naturally reach out in front to exert more pressure for the knife to go in, or did Jenny have her hands by her side or behind her back? Hmmmm, doesn't sound right to me. jmho



http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf

 

[Llux]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster

I am starting at the beginning because a lot of this case is very confusing to me. My apologies if I repeat something already addressed.

The drugs mentioned in the coroner's report as belonging to Ms Cook (page 6):
Oxynorm, Norethisterone, Prochlorperazine and Zentel.
According to my research, oxynorm is a painkiller for severe pain (so, her back pain); Norethisterone is a kind of hormone medication for heavy periods; Prochlorperazine has been used for nausea/vomitting; and Zentel is for parasite infections (worms?). Where are her antidepressants? have I missed something?

Also, page 5, first paragraph: the paramedics on route to the Cook's received another call from a mobile stating that "the death may be suspicious". Any ideas who this was or what information they were acting on? I presume it was the police, since they were assuming it was a death already? But it's not very well explained in the coroner's report that I can see?

 

[Ausgirl]

I hate the fact they've made me so cynical

but the answer to your question which first popped into my head was: ' Because they can'.

snipped for space -- just wanted to day thanks for that post, it all really gets to me sometimes too. And I have to google pictures of baby kittens just to prevent myself festering on it. Here, have a hug. :hug: But yeah, I feel you.

 

[Ausgirl]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster

I am starting at the beginning because a lot of this case is very confusing to me. My apologies if I repeat something already addressed.

The drugs mentioned in the coroner's report as belonging to Ms Cook (page 6):
Oxynorm, Norethisterone, Prochlorperazine and Zentel.
According to my research, oxynorm is a painkiller for severe pain (so, her back pain); Norethisterone is a kind of hormone medication for heavy periods; Prochlorperazine has been used for nausea/vomitting; and Zentel is for parasite infections (worms?). Where are her antidepressants? have I missed something?

Also, page 5, first paragraph: the paramedics on route to the Cook's received another call from a mobile stating that "the death may be suspicious". Any ideas who this was or what information they were acting on? I presume it was the police, since they were assuming it was a death already? But it's not very well explained in the coroner's report that I can see?

Hi Llux, and welcome, glad you're posting!

No, you have not missed anything. I've been posting about the meds the last few pages, there's something weird going on there. Weird, or unprofessional. Maybe both. But yeah, the antidepressants are nowhere mentioned, except for in one "live from the inquest" style report. And then, they're two utterly different meds (diazapam and temezapam) than those mentioned in the autopsy tox results in the inquest findings (ephedrine and antihistamine, which are both common asthma/allergy meds).

eta: iirc, Prochlorperazine is also for treatment of anxiety.

I'm having a brain fart about the phone call. sorry.

 

[MsAnais]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster

I am starting at the beginning because a lot of this case is very confusing to me. My apologies if I repeat something already addressed.

The drugs mentioned in the coroner's report as belonging to Ms Cook (page 6):
Oxynorm, Norethisterone, Prochlorperazine and Zentel.
According to my research, oxynorm is a painkiller for severe pain (so, her back pain); Norethisterone is a kind of hormone medication for heavy periods; Prochlorperazine has been used for nausea/vomitting; and Zentel is for parasite infections (worms?). Where are her antidepressants? have I missed something?

Also, page 5, first paragraph: the paramedics on route to the Cook's received another call from a mobile stating that "the death may be suspicious". Any ideas who this was or what information they were acting on? I presume it was the police, since they were assuming it was a death already? But it's not very well explained in the coroner's report that I can see?

Welcome Llux!!:seeya:

:welcome6:

 

[MadDoc]

Oh, and another gem from PC

Did you see in the coronial findings where police noted PC told them that when he first came home and thought Jenny had left him, 'He was happy' ?

She left him alright. Via death. That should have made him ecstatic, shouldn't it?

Definitely a contender for Husband of the Year Award - it's a tight race between him, Gerard Baden-Clay and Novy Chardon's husband. :gaah:

 

[MsAnais]

Hi everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster

I am starting at the beginning because a lot of this case is very confusing to me. My apologies if I repeat something already addressed.

The drugs mentioned in the coroner's report as belonging to Ms Cook (page 6):
Oxynorm, Norethisterone, Prochlorperazine and Zentel.
According to my research, oxynorm is a painkiller for severe pain (so, her back pain); Norethisterone is a kind of hormone medication for heavy periods; Prochlorperazine has been used for nausea/vomitting; and Zentel is for parasite infections (worms?). Where are her antidepressants? have I missed something?

Also, page 5, first paragraph: the paramedics on route to the Cook's received another call from a mobile stating that "the death may be suspicious". Any ideas who this was or what information they were acting on? I presume it was the police, since they were assuming it was a death already? But it's not very well explained in the coroner's report that I can see?

bbm.

That IS weird. It certainly isn't clear in the autopsy report who they received that call from.

But it is clear that the paramedics were the first 'officials' on the scene....so there's nobody else it could have been except PC......he was the sole person there when they arrived. Who else could it have been?

Unless the second call was from LE due to the 000 phone operator picking up something dodgy about what PC was saying? That makes more sense. As if PC would imply it was murder.....

According to the Autopsy Report:

"[the paramedics] They arrived at the house at 7.56pm....." and the police arrived 4 minutes later; "Constables Bower and Mann were the first officers to arrive at 8pm"

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/217931/cif-cook-jl-20131206.pdf (page 5)

Yet another weird facet to this case :facepalm:

 

[MsAnais]

Do we have any info on the 000 call?

 

[Llux]

Page 9, first paragraph (again sorry if this has been brought up):
DS Osborn deduced that Ms Cook died while impaled, yet there was vomit and blood on the board... vomit would imply she was still alive while on the ground. Unless dead people can vomit?

 

[Ausgirl]

Hrm.. diazepam and temazapam are both hypnotics, and "hypnotics" are mentioned in the inquest report, though not by name. The report really is a bit opaque in places....it's very annoying! So maybe they were mentioned (if quite obliquely). These antidepressants were in "therapeutic" amounts, according to msm, so she did not load up on them, probably these are prescribed doses.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

quick comment............One of the cleanest suicides I have read about. There was no reason for her to kill her self outside. She could have easy have done so inside the home and used the knife. Unless she was concerned about the resell value of the home. Perhaps perspective buyers would decline to purchase if she killed her self inside the home. So she did it outside.
If she could have been carried away on that plywood and the knife removed from the scene, there would have been no evidence any crime occurred outside the home. She would have just been missing.

One thing that sticks in my mind is when he got home one of the first things he noticed was a knife missing. How would you know a knife is missing unless you looked for it? I would have not known a knife was missing until I went to use it.

Do they ask persons to take a polygraph in Australia as they do here in the states?
Have a good day, evening everyone.

 

[Ausgirl]

Page 9, first paragraph (again sorry if this has been brought up):
DS Osborn deduced that Ms Cook died while impaled, yet there was vomit and blood on the board... vomit would imply she was still alive while on the ground. Unless dead people can vomit?

Yeah I think she was talking out her butt there; she also phoned it through as a 'probable suicide' at 1.40am, though the autopsy wasn't til the next day. To be fair, though, I get the feeling Williams' comments at the scene had most attending officers convinced it was a suicide from his glancing over it all and proclaiming it thus.

 

[laserdisc10]

Yeah I think she was talking out her butt there; she also phoned it through as a 'probable suicide' at 1.40am, though the autopsy wasn't til the next day. To be fair, though, I get the feeling Williams' comments at the scene had most attending officers convinced it was a suicide from his glancing over it all and proclaiming it thus.

Yep. Williams and Osborn. Two I wouldn't trust to walk my dog to echo Ainsworth

Williams arrived approx. 10.30

And somewhere, I read that Osborn never went closer than five or ten metres from the body (?)

Yet those two dominated the entire case. Had Jenny buried as a suicide. Gave the house back to PC within 24 hours. Destroyed the vital evidence. Osborn in particular needs a psyche test in my opinion only. Ditto Williams, again my opinion based on what we've learned

And Queensland taxpayers are still feeding them? Scandal -- again, my opinion only