GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #3

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DrWatson said:
Picky-picky alert - sorry in advance ;)

The Turkish kebab place is one up from the corner, so sounds from AROUND the corner would be not quite as distinct as if the shop was right ON the corner. Small point, but relevant, I think.

Also I think you meant 30 metres, not 30 minutes (told you it was picky-picky), and that was to the laneway where Jill's handbag was found, just off Hope st, not Ovens St. You can get through to Ovens St via that laneway then turn right, but I'm fairly sure from the pictures that the handbag was found beside where that white car parks, only a few metres into the laneway off Hope St.

I suppose she could have run out there with a meat cleaver in her hand, and maybe the offender might have been scared off. But that's all "coulda, shoulda, woulda" stuff. The retrospectoscope at work again, unfortunately.

Sorry for the picky-picky... :blushing:
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Oops yes i meant 30 METRES, not 30 minutes.

ANd thanks for correcting me, i was sure the Turkish place was on the corner. but yeah its the next store up
 
I have heard it said that if you are in danger, more people are likely to come and assist if you yell fire or help as just a scream could mean things other than you are in danger so people may not respond especially if it is a noisy area.

I know its easier said than done but it is just a safety hint I have heard that is worth passing on.
 
queenieandpearl said:
And the pizza shop - do we know where that is yet?
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Whats weird is that the only pizza shop is about 100 metres PAST hope st.

Why would Jill have walked that far past her turnoff?

A theory I have is that perhaps the CCTV camera from the pizza shop is actually at the back of the store. The shop backs on to the same laneway where Jills bag was found.

Its possible he could have taken her down that laneway and the vital footage was captured on that back camera.

Just a thought


EDIT - I added a screenshot from Google maps. the C marker is the pizza shop, and u can see it backs on to the laneway that runs off Hope St


K1O3Z.jpg
 
pudd said:
(snipped by me) That's so true. And with the distance of time, in 25-35 years he'll be 66-76 and "oh, he's too old to hurt anyone now". But that's not the point! Jill, TM, her family, all have a life sentence of sadness. AB should get an appropriate sentence for the crime(s) he's committed, all the way to his last. day. on. earth. Even then, due to the cost involved in keeping him fed and housed for the next however many years, I'm still kind of in favour of a Carl Williams-style outcome.

MOO.
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I would lay a bet it ends Carl Williams style. I would also bet there'd be people lining up.....:what:
 
TheStupidTree said:
"The 41-year-old had an emotionally and physically abusive childhood, and a violent and fractured relationship with his father for many years."

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/...an-ernest-bayley/story-e6frg6nf-1226483787739

This annoys me. Many ppl have hard childhoods or bad relations with one or other parent or family member. This is not an excuse for behaving so abominably. I can see it now thrown into his defense, he's not responsible or diminished responsibility because at 41 he hasn't grown the **** up. At what point do we stop this crap? He's 41, not a child. Totally responsible for his actions, I don't give two hoots about his childhood.

Ok rant over. Possible over reaction on my part :|
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FFS that more than annoys me, it freaking *****s me, a bad childhood is no excuse. I had a bad/traumatic childhood too, but it made me determined to never be or live like that and to be a better parent.

People have to be made to own their own behaviour instead of blaming their childhood for it.
 
DrWatson said:
Thanks Ali. Would you like to be the Legal Aid lawyer assigned to him though?

I can't imagine how badly the poor defence lawyer would be torn between two emotions, one being the professional obligation to provide the best defence, the other being the knowledge of what has happened, including his previous form.
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Poor person who picked the short straw.

Actually I am curious to know how cases are assigned like this. Can a legal aid refuse to represent someone? How does that work?
 
Curiousasacat said:
I would lay a bet it ends Carl Williams style. I would also bet there'd be people lining up.....:what:
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it will be a lot worse than that

Ever heard what happened in jail to the ringleader of the Anita Cobby rape/murder?
 
oz_sleuth said:
Whats weird is that the only pizza shop is about 100 metres PAST hope st.

Why would Jill have walked that far past her turnoff?

A theory I have is that perhaps the CCTV camera from the pizza shop is actually at the back of the store. The shop backs on to the same laneway where Jills bag was found.

Its possible he could have taken her down that laneway and the vital footage was captured on that back camera.

Just a thought


EDIT - I added a screenshot from Google maps. the C marker is the pizza shop, and u can see it backs on to the laneway that runs off Hope St
Click to expand...

And as a semi-local, I can confirm that noises in those laneways are amplified considerably. I don't know the physics behind it, but it's freaky (and irritating if you're trying to sleep and some people are talking in their backyard, for example).
 
oz_sleuth said:
Whats weird is that the only pizza shop is about 100 metres PAST hope st.

Why would Jill have walked that far past her turnoff?

A theory I have is that perhaps the CCTV camera from the pizza shop is actually at the back of the store. The shop backs on to the same laneway where Jills bag was found.

Its possible he could have taken her down that laneway and the vital footage was captured on that back camera.

Just a thought


EDIT - I added a screenshot from Google maps. the C marker is the pizza shop, and u can see it backs on to the laneway that runs off Hope St


K1O3Z.jpg
Click to expand...



OMG. Imagine if it was filmed. It is likely a food store would have a camera in the back. Deliveries go to the back. Is this the vital info and why they knew she was deceased. Nah, surely not.
 
oz_sleuth said:
it will be a lot worse than that

Ever heard what happened in jail to the ringleader of the Anita Cobby rape/murder?
Click to expand...

Actually I never did. I tried never to hear any details with that case as apparently it's horrifying. Sounds like they got him good though which is pleasing : )
 
WAG said:
The John Silvester article is interesting, it raises more questions though.

- How did they know she was already dead when they decided to release the footage?
- How did they know she was assaulted in a laneway, I thought no forensic evidence was collected?
- Did they already have him on the suspect list before the CCTV footage came out due to his history and inclusion on the sex offenders list?
- How come the other sexual offences (rape, exposure, stabbing etc with similar looking offenders) were not pieced together prior and an alert put out?

I urge everyone who has been affected by this case to march in the Reclaim the Night march in the city at the end of October, or in the special Sydney Rd march being planned at the moment.
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oz_sleuth said:
Whats weird is that the only pizza shop is about 100 metres PAST hope st.

Why would Jill have walked that far past her turnoff?

A theory I have is that perhaps the CCTV camera from the pizza shop is actually at the back of the store. The shop backs on to the same laneway where Jills bag was found.

Its possible he could have taken her down that laneway and the vital footage was captured on that back camera.

Just a thought


EDIT - I added a screenshot from Google maps. the C marker is the pizza shop, and u can see it backs on to the laneway that runs off Hope St


K1O3Z.jpg
Click to expand...

Help me out here. Is the pizza shop north or south of where Jill was seen talking to BH on the CCTV?
 
Curiousasacat said:
Poor person who picked the short straw.

Actually I am curious to know how cases are assigned like this. Can a legal aid refuse to represent someone? How does that work?
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When I did my post degree legal training, I did a morning with the magistrate's duty lawyer ( in Brisbane) and they dealt with all the legal aid matters on that session. We just saw each person for 5 to 10 minutes prior to representing them in court.
So to answer your question, I guess it would be whoever was on duty would have been assigned as the legal aid lawyer for the morning's court appearance. It would be rare for a legal aid lawyer to refuse to act unless they knew anyone involved. Legal aid is means tested.
 
Curiousasacat said:
OMG. Imagine if it was filmed. It is likely a food store would have a camera in the back. Deliveries go to the back. Is this the vital info and why they knew she was deceased. Nah, surely not.
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they didn't know that she was deceased, they had lost a lot of hope, but they didn't know.
 
Why do people think it will be a legal aid lawyer representing the alleged perp? My guess is that with a high profile case like this, lawyers would be clammering to get their names in lights. I could be wrong of course!

Also, do people agree with my theory that everything took place in the alleged perp's car? I'm just going with my gut here and reports that even seasoned journalists were physically ill when they were briefed off the record by Vic police on the crime. If it was that awful, I'm guessing he couldn't do that on the street when there was a possibility of people walking by. He would need to be hidden from view. Also, there have been no reports of an obvious crime scene. The car seems the obvious place. If so, it would be literally littered with DNA evidence.

Having said all this, I'm wondering what happened to make this escalate into murder. I can't believe I'm saying this but my understanding is that one of the reason many rapes are not reported is that women don't believe that they will be believed and/or they themselves are treated like the criminal. Knowing this, wouldn't a perp just assume he'd get away with the rape & leave it there? I know the alleged perp is a sexual predator and has been caught for rape before - but I am assuming there were many more rapes he committed where he wasn't caught? What snapped in him to progress this to murder?
 
ozgirl70 said:
Help me out here. Is the pizza shop north or south of where Jill was seen talking to BH on the CCTV?
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Hi, I'm pretty sure the pizza shop is north of where Jill was talking to BH.

Oz_sleuth, thanks for that map. I'm willing to bet that they have footage from behind the shop too.

Do we know how the bag was discovered yet? Was it sitting on the ground the way the local replaced it or were the contents scattered?
 
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