GUILTY Australia - Jill Meagher, 29, Melbourne, 22 Sep 2012 #4

[Makara]

This brought tears to my eyes. What a wonderful memory Michael has of Jill.

Police return to Jill Meagher’s grave in hunt for fresh clues

By Luke Byrne and James Dowling
Wednesday October 03 2012

In his post Michael revealed that the pair blasted Mama Cass Elliott's ‘Make Your Own Kind of Music' repeatedly in the early hours of Saturday morning two weeks before Ms Meagher disappeared.

He wrote: “Three weeks ago tonight Jill and I were up on the balcony drinking away at the folks’ place.

“She put this song on at about 2am and had it on repeat till 4 and was singing away at the top of her voice to it.

“Waking up that morning she put this song on again.

“She will be right there with me when I play this song every morning for the rest of my life.”

http://www.independent.ie/national-...rs-grave-in-hunt-for-fresh-clues-3248778.html

The inimitable Mama Cass singing Make Your Own Kind Of Music.

Make Your Own Kind Of Music With Subtitles - YouTube

 

[Love Coco]

I mean no offence to pastry chefs but I have spent most of my career in hotels and my friends and I always used to joke how weird pastry chefs are. They(in my experience) are different people and we never understood why but there is just something different about them.

All MOO and a bit of generalization....

My cousin was a pastry chef.
He's a pretty normal guy!
Just tired usually, cuz they seem to work odd hours (5am starts sometimes etc).

 

[Luna]

Hi all,
I am new to the group but have been reading the posts for the last week and following the case here in Australia. Like many people I've been truly saddened by the events and have relatives living just streets away from where Ms Meagher disappeared. So very sad

I have a question and I do apologise if its already been discussed.

I keep thinking about the handbag.... So MSM reported that JMs bag was discovered the Monday after her disappearance by a member of the public, although when the police search the area around Hope St two days prior, they didn't find it. So we are led to believe by reports that someone placed it there later in order to confuse the investigation..

..so I'm wondering. Say for arguments sake the attacker went at put it there later, what would the purpose be? How would this confuse the investigation? All I can think is that he would place it there to make police think that was the crime scene when in fact he crime scene is somewhere else??? I can't think why else you would plant the bag later?

Alternatively I did think that maybe someone found the back shortly after JM was taken and took it home, only the realise over the weekend it's significance and so just go and put it back where they found it for fear they might be implicated.

 

[marlywings]

Hi all,
I am new to the group but have been reading the posts for the last week and following the case here in Australia. Like many people I've been truly saddened by the events and have relatives living just streets away from where Ms Meagher disappeared. So very sad

I have a question and I do apologise if its already been discussed.

I keep thinking about the handbag.... So MSM reported that JMs bag was discovered the Monday after her disappearance by a member of the public, although when the police search the area around Hope St two days prior, they didn't find it. So we are led to believe by reports that someone placed it there later in order to confuse the investigation..

..so I'm wondering. Say for arguments sake the attacker went at put it there later, what would the purpose be? How would this confuse the investigation? All I can think is that he would place it there to make police think that was the crime scene when in fact he crime scene is somewhere else??? I can't think why else you would plant the bag later?

Alternatively I did think that maybe someone found the back shortly after JM was taken and took it home, only the realise over the weekend it's significance and so just go and put it back where they found it for fear they might be implicated.

Hi Luna & welcome to WS...nice to have you on board. The following is a report released a few days back re Jill's bag.

Eventually her handbag was recovered in Hope Street but police were convinced it was not there when they checked the area on Saturday afternoon. This meant it had been planted some time later.

This would have initially indicated the offender might have lived nearby. (The reality was a local found the handbag in the lane on Saturday morning then returned on Sunday evening to put it back as a result of the media publicity.)

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nat...re-killings-20120928-26qql.html#ixzz27m3yhj9O

 

[eliot ness]

Alternatively I did think that maybe someone found the back shortly after JM was taken and took it home, only the realise over the weekend it's significance and so just go and put it back where they found it for fear they might be implicated.

Apparently - not sure if that has been officially confirmed though?


Edited - just saw the above post from marlywings

 

[Sleuthilicious]

Thanks, I read all of the posts made at the time At that time we had only just received the awful news that someone had been arrested. When I heard about what had happened to Jill (without any gruesome detail) my reaction was similar in many ways to the twitter comments you posted of the journalists, in particular the one who said he wanted to hug his children that night, or something along those lines. I also thought "oh no this isn't good" and felt ill etc etc as most of us would have felt. The media would have also been told, before we all knew, that the accused was likely to take the police to where he had left Jill that night - horrible, horrible stuff. This could have been all they were told though.

I'm just saying it is easy to speculate and dramatise without really knowing any facts, and I'm not sure that it is appropriate. What we do know is bad enough.

I wonder if they told the journalists that they were taking the accused to find Jill and they wanted it kept completely quiet. They might have told them exactly what they expected to find...

 

[Love Coco]

Sorry to speculate, but could it have been the counts of rape that shook the journalists? Could he have admitted it all - every horrible detail - because he knew he was caught and maybe got a thrill out of "re-living" it to the police?

ETA: But I suppose seasoned journalists would be well familiar with cases where the accused has been charged with multiple counts of rape in the one attack, so I don't know. I guess in this case, given how personal it was, all details would be shocking to hear.

 

[marlywings]

Apparently - not sure if that has been officially confirmed though?


Edited - just saw the above post from marlywings

Hi eliot ness & welcome to WS...nice to have you on board also!

 

[Fuskier]

This brought tears to my eyes. What a wonderful memory Michael has of Jill.
<respectfully snipped>

Makara we have some of our own kind of special people here on WS. Thank you for posting this music video for us. It helps us to relate to something Jill and Michael enjoyed. :tyou:

 

[truthound]

Sorry to speculate, but could it have been the counts of rape that shook the journalists? Could he have admitted it all - every horrible detail - because he knew he was caught and maybe got a thrill out of "re-living" it to the police?

ETA: But I suppose seasoned journalists would be well familiar with cases where the accused has been charged with multiple counts of rape in the one attack, so I don't know. I guess in this case, given how personal it was, all details would be shocking to hear.

My understanding is that the media briefing was very short.

Unless/until journalists divulge what they heard, it's only speculation. I suspect it had something to do with an issue that has been raised in discussion of this case, but can no longer be discussed.

The detectives charged the accused, but that doesn't mean the investigation is over. In fact, they've been out searching today.

I'm sure more details will come to light in good time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[FruitTingles]

Good question. I assume that the police would have taken possession of AB's phone upon arrest. And if it was a smartphone, then location services may have been turned on. Of course, if he was smart, he may have turned them off before leaving home - but then there's nothing to say he was particularly smart...

:laugh:

 

[Fuskier]

Originally by Marlywings:
Eventually her handbag was recovered in Hope Street ... (The reality was a local found the handbag in the lane on Saturday morning then returned on Sunday evening to put it back as a result of the media publicity.)

This is evidence that Jill had been in the lane. So she must have turned left into Hope St IMO.

<respectfully snipped>
The detectives charged the accused, but that doesn't mean the investigation is over. In fact, they've been out searching today.
I'm sure more details will come to light in good time. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

IMO Victoria Police are not able to make any comments as the matter is now before The Courts.
But clearly, the investigation is ongoing. My opinion only.

 

[Berry]

Good question. I assume that the police would have taken possession of AB's phone upon arrest. And if it was a smartphone, then location services may have been turned on. Of course, if he was smart, he may have turned them off before leaving home - but then there's nothing to say he was particularly smart...

IMO he is very smart, like a fox....<modsnip>

 

[Davita]

"Police will allege that he eventually told them the story, admitting he grabbed Jill Meagher and took her to a side street where he sexually assaulted her.

They will produce the videoed confession in which he says he drove to Gisborne, a town 55 kilometres north-west of Melbourne, and used his own shovel to dig a shallow grave to hide his victim.

After initially denying any involvement he finally took police to the site where the body was recovered."

This is a quote from a media outlet. Is this a confession or not?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-feared-more-killings-20120928-26qql.html

 

[Berry]

This brought tears to my eyes. What a wonderful memory Michael has of Jill.

Police return to Jill Meagher’s grave in hunt for fresh clues

By Luke Byrne and James Dowling
Wednesday October 03 2012



http://www.independent.ie/national-...rs-grave-in-hunt-for-fresh-clues-3248778.html

The inimitable Mama Cass singing Make Your Own Kind Of Music.

Make Your Own Kind Of Music With Subtitles - YouTube

Thanks for that Makara....the lyrics make me sadder though

Especially the line "the loneliest kind of lonely"

Our dear Jill must have felt that so badly, it makes me cry.............

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Sorry to speculate, but could it have been the counts of rape that shook the journalists? Could he have admitted it all - every horrible detail - because he knew he was caught and maybe got a thrill out of "re-living" it to the police?

ETA: But I suppose seasoned journalists would be well familiar with cases where the accused has been charged with multiple counts of rape in the one attack, so I don't know. I guess in this case, given how personal it was, all details would be shocking to hear.

A journo who was very distressed had worked with Jill and knew her very well -Hamish Fitzsimmons from ABC., he was on Twitter with Ahron Young, bureau chief of SkyNews, relating events back to him. Ahron Young was the one saying, 'oh no, this isn't good guys'.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

"Police will allege that he eventually told them the story, admitting he grabbed Jill Meagher and took her to a side street where he sexually assaulted her.

They will produce the videoed confession in which he says he drove to Gisborne, a town 55 kilometres north-west of Melbourne, and used his own shovel to dig a shallow grave to hide his victim.

After initially denying any involvement he finally took police to the site where the body was recovered."

This is a quote from a media outlet. Is this a confession or not?

http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-feared-more-killings-20120928-26qql.html

A videoed confession is a confession. If it were just a record of interview without any admissions that is different. I heard on news today that man accused of shooting death of police officer in Bankstown (Sydney) told the court today that he wanted to change his plea from guilty to not guilty because 'he didn't understand what they told him during the interview.'

 

[Love Coco]

And that is all down to the hormones, the biology. The point being - no matter how much education and moralising is given to people, there will always be some who simply have an abnormal and uncontrollable drive. And yes, aggression and power does come into it - but it's basically sexual in nature and causation.

I think you make a really good point, but at the same time, there are people out there with raging hormones who don't escalate to raping women.

And then there are those who go to prostitutes, which one would assume would 'fulfill' their need in that moment, yet still violently rape and assault the prostitute.

Only speculation, but in this case it's possible that Jill rejected his advances (who wouldn't), and AB could not accept the rejection, and thought he'd "show her". It may have been a case of anger towards her, not because he needed sex at that exact moment.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

"Police will allege ................
They will produce the videoed confession in which he says he drove to Gisborne, a town 55 kilometres north-west of Melbourne, and used his own shovel to dig a shallow grave to hide his victim.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/police-feared-more-killings-20120928-26qql.html

I still want to know the relevance of 'he used his own shovel'. As others have said, who else's shovel might it have been.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

I think you make a really good point, but at the same time, there are people out there with raging hormones who don't escalate to raping women.

And then there are those who go to prostitutes, which one would assume would 'fulfill' their need in that moment, yet still violently rape and assault the prostitute.

Only speculation, but in this case it's possible that Jill rejected his advances (who wouldn't), and AB could not accept the rejection, and thought he'd "show her". It may have been a case of anger towards her, not because he needed sex at that exact moment.

Or a sexual assault gone wrong.