Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #2

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A not guilty plea gives him a chance in a court of law up against a Jury of everyday people.

If he pleads guilty it's all over, plead not guilty and it's another roll of the dice. In his eyes he has nothing to lose and he probably has a massive ego and there is no way he is going to admit to anything

He somewhat reminds me of Baden-Clay - huge ego, he knew the evidence was stacked against him but he would never admit to committing the crime or murdering his wife :mad: he gave it his best shot though, he retained great barristers and he rolled the dice ...

He lost

Edited to add - That's just my own opinion - I'm not a legal expert, just an interested observer
 
brissygirl2019 said:
A not guilty plea gives him a chance in a court of law up against a Jury of everyday people.

If he pleads guilty it's all over, plead not guilty and it's another roll of the dice. In his eyes he has nothing to lose and he probably has a massive ego and there is no way he is going to admit to anything

He somewhat reminds me of Baden-Clay - huge ego, he knew the evidence was stacked against him but he would never admit to committing the crime or murdering his wife :mad: he gave it his best shot though, he retained great barristers and he rolled the dice ...

He lost

Edited to add - That's just my own opinion - I'm not a legal expert, just an interested observer
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I think you made very good points :)
 
If he admits guilt, there's a good chance that someone will try and take his life in the correction system, even in isolation, NSW is notorious for it. People that harm women and kids are the lowest of the low in jail, even though they're criminals there's a code of ethics in there, most criminals have kids, sisters, and mothers. If he admits to what he's tried for, there's no second guess for the prisoners.
 
Warshawski said:
I didn’t initially find that plea as any real surprise - imo, most go down this track, irrespective of their Guilt.

Hoping we’ve some colleagues here with qualifications in the Legal system since I have none - my closest was Jury Duty call, with the Charged pleading guilty at very last minute!

My thoughts are that the ‘not guilty’ plea would buy a heap more Free time for a guilty party - but that doesn’t wash is JS case as he’s already incarcerated.

Thoughts ?
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Depending on the evidence he may be looking for a plea deal where they drop the murder charge in return for him pleading guilty to manslaughter. That he disposed of the body isn't going to be enough to prove he killed her and intended to kill/inflict grievous bodily harm.
 
JLZ said:
Depending on the evidence he may be looking for a plea deal where they drop the murder charge in return for him pleading guilty to manslaughter. That he disposed of the body isn't going to be enough to prove he killed her and intended to kill/inflict grievous bodily harm.
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That makes sense. But IIRC with him not talking, it would mean he hasn't offered up what happened to her while she was in his care to end up that way. Wouldn't he need to give a credible explanation on the middle section of events IMO
 
Doesitmakesense said:
That makes sense. But IIRC with him not talking, it would mean he hasn't offered up what happened to her while she was in his care to end up that way. Wouldn't he need to give a credible explanation on the middle section of events IMO
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Borce Ristevski was charged with murder, never said what happened and got a last-minute plea deal for manslaughter. They had evidence of him driving to dispose of the body. But the case against him was weaker because apart from the problem of proving intention, it had taken so long to find his wife's body they couldn't determine a cause of death.
 
JLZ said:
Borce Ristevski was charged with murder, never said what happened and got a last-minute plea deal for manslaughter. They had evidence of him driving to dispose of the body. But the case against him was weaker because apart from the problem of proving intention, it had taken so long to find his wife's body they couldn't determine a cause of death.
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I think their weak link in this case is tying JS to the murder weapon. Hopefully, they are able to overcome that weak link (if he is guilty).
 
SouthAussie said:
I think their weak link in this case is tying JS to the murder weapon. Hopefully, they are able to overcome that weak link (if he is guilty).
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Can't the child's mother testify against him? It seems she would be in the position to know what was happening?

I still do not understand why he had the child overnight, alone, at the wedding venue. What was the reasoning behind that? It seems it would be incriminating if he had manufactured an excuse to get her alone up there. JMO
 
Just been thinking about being a mother. Which is worse, having something awful happen to your child, or being the mother of the perpetrator? C's parents and grandparents are just devastated of course, but how must JS's mother feel? I can't imagine, but it must be truly awful too. She has tried to help him with places to live, etc, but to no avail. I can imagine that she nevertheless can't believe him capable of harming C, and I'm afraid she is only lining up for more pain.
 
Kemug said:
Just been thinking about being a mother. Which is worse, having something awful happen to your child, or being the mother of the perpetrator? C's parents and grandparents are just devastated of course, but how must JS's mother feel? I can't imagine, but it must be truly awful too. She has tried to help him with places to live, etc, but to no avail. I can imagine that she nevertheless can't believe him capable of harming C, and I'm afraid she is only lining up for more pain.
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I think both of those circumstances would be devastating, as a parent. Truly horrifying, either way. :(:(
 
SouthAussie said:
I think their weak link in this case is tying JS to the murder weapon. Hopefully, they are able to overcome that weak link (if he is guilty).
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Am I correct in thinking that no murder weapon has been found ?

In which case there is no requirement to tie JS to a weapon that doesn't exist as a piece of evidence ? More to the point, why has no murder weapon been found and does that indeed implicate there could be another person ?
 
Kemug said:
Just been thinking about being a mother. Which is worse, having something awful happen to your child, or being the mother of the perpetrator? C's parents and grandparents are just devastated of course, but how must JS's mother feel? I can't imagine, but it must be truly awful too. She has tried to help him with places to live, etc, but to no avail. I can imagine that she nevertheless can't believe him capable of harming C, and I'm afraid she is only lining up for more pain.
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Seems to me she's in denial and it will probably take a court case together with all the prosecution evidence for her to come out of it.
 
Doesitmakesense said:
That makes sense. But IIRC with him not talking, it would mean he hasn't offered up what happened to her while she was in his care to end up that way. Wouldn't he need to give a credible explanation on the middle section of events IMO
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Do we truly know / have evidence that JS and KM separated at some point ? Seems it has been stated KM was alone, or even with visiting friends, at the woodland cabin / shack. That at some point JS departed the cabin and took CM with him.

Seems unlikely to me. Why would a 40 y/o man leave whatsoever with a young child who is not his own offspring and most especially when he's not a father of other children, ie doesn't have parenting experience for a young girl (toilet trips, hair care, washing/bathing, dressing/undressing, putting to bed, etc) ?

Maybe if he said he was going on a trip to fetch something or on a shopping mission. Bring the girl for the ride. But removing her from the cabin to go stay elsewhere !? Why don't we have any details of this whatsoever ? For example had KM packed her an overnight bag, change of clothes in line with going away for the night or two ?
 
Jay_Tec said:
Do we truly know / have evidence that JS and KM separated at some point ? Seems it has been stated KM was alone, or even with visiting friends, at the woodland cabin / shack. That at some point JS departed the cabin and took CM with him.

Seems unlikely to me. Why would a 40 y/o man leave whatsoever with a young child who is not his own offspring and most especially when he's not a father of other children, ie doesn't have parenting experience for a young girl (toilet trips, hair care, washing/bathing, dressing/undressing, putting to bed, etc) ?

Maybe if he said he was going on a trip to fetch something or on a shopping mission. Bring the girl for the ride. But removing her from the cabin to go stay elsewhere !? Why don't we have any details of this whatsoever ? For example had KM packed her an overnight bag, change of clothes in line with going away for the night or two ?
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IIRC, the police said, that the girl's mother gave her fiancé permission to care for the child and take her to the wedding venue for a few days. And I really really want to understand that decision.
 
Jay_Tec said:
Am I correct in thinking that no murder weapon has been found ?

In which case there is no requirement to tie JS to a weapon that doesn't exist as a piece of evidence ? More to the point, why has no murder weapon been found and does that indeed implicate there could be another person ?
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BBM. But they know the child died by gunshot. Certain things have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and I think one of them will be that the accused had access to the kind of weapon she died by.
 
Jay_Tec said:
Do we truly know / have evidence that JS and KM separated at some point ?
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We don't, but it looks like the police do as they seem very confident that JS was the only adult at the venue with CM. From the press conference: "we’re alleging that the murder happened Tuesday night or early hours of Wednesday morning. And the information and the evidence we have is that [CM]’s mother is not at the property at that time."

Jay_Tec said:
Seems it has been stated KM was alone, or even with visiting friends, at the woodland cabin / shack. That at some point JS departed the cabin and took CM with him.
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She was staying at the caravan park with CM. From the press conference: "she was staying at the caravan at the time and the 31-year-old [JS] was with [CM] at the property at the time, at Mount Wilson."

Jay_Tec said:
Seems unlikely to me. Why would a 40 y/o man leave whatsoever with a young child who is not his own offspring and most especially when he's not a father of other children, ie doesn't have parenting experience for a young girl (toilet trips, hair care, washing/bathing, dressing/undressing, putting to bed, etc) ?
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The whole scenario, including the murder of a child with a gun, is unlikely. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why CM's mother allowed her child to go with JS is unclear. It would be unusual for a 9-year-old girl to need help with toilet trips, bathing, undressing etc., but you're right, it's also very unusual for a child of that age to be without a parent at bedtime.

Jay_Tec said:
Why don't we have any details of this whatsoever ?
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Because we don't really need them. If the police know how this all played out, they'll be part of the case they're building. They're not likely to release that information to the public.

katydid23 said:
IIRC, the police said, that the girl's mother gave her fiancé permission to care for the child and take her to the wedding venue for a few days. And I really really want to understand that decision.
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Do you have a source for this katydid23? My working theory was that the mother might have given her fiancé permission to take CM out for a while, but a while became overnight, and overnight became a few nights, and by then JS was running out of believable excuses and the mother was worried enough to drive up there.

Obviously it's still weird that a mother would make the choices she did, but there's probably not going to be an answer to our questions that isn't weird. I can't personally imagine leaving a daughter in the care of a boyfriend she didn't really know, in an unfamiliar place, overnight, let alone over several nights. But KM was obviously not your average, responsible mother, and she seems to have trusted JS a lot more than she should have.

I hadn't heard that police confirmed CM's mother gave JS permission to take her away for a few days, but that would throw my working theory out the window.
 
Webbie2021 said:
katydid23 said: ↑
"IIRC, the police said, that the girl's mother gave her fiancé permission to care for the child and take her to the wedding venue for a few days. And I really really want to understand that decision."


Do you have a source for this katydid23? My working theory was that the mother might have given her fiancé permission to take CM out for a while, but a while became overnight, and overnight became a few nights, and by then JS was running out of believable excuses and the mother was worried enough to drive up there.

Obviously it's still weird that a mother would make the choices she did, but there's probably not going to be an answer to our questions that isn't weird. I can't personally imagine leaving a daughter in the care of a boyfriend she didn't really know, in an unfamiliar place, overnight, let alone over several nights. But KM was obviously not your average, responsible mother, and she seems to have trusted JS a lot more than she should have.

I hadn't heard that police confirmed CM's mother gave JS permission to take her away for a few days, but that would throw my working theory out the window.
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Sorry that I have not replied for so long. I am just now getting back to this thread.

I did probably misspeak by saying that mom gave him permission for taking the child for 'a few days.' I do remember them saying she had given him permission to take the child to the wedding venue/

And IIRC, she was taken there Tuesday afternoon. It was a 2 and a half hour drive. So it seems that mom would know they wouldn't be back that first night? So I don't even understand why she let him take her at that time.

But I do agree with you---he probably gave her an excuse each time, until she finally had to go check for herself. What excuse could he have for not putting her child on the phone when she called?
 
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