Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #2

[nightrider17]

I was wondering - the firearm used was apparently different to the ones stolen from neighbour's house.

So - the ones he stole - where they intended to be used for another crime?

or did he need to sell the stolen guns to obtain cash for another item he wanted to purchase?

I originally thought because he did the offence while the people where home- the motivation was to send a message to the neighbour's or to even up a longstanding issue he had with them.

But maybe he was planning something else with the stolen items. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I was wondering - the firearm used was apparently different to the ones stolen from neighbour's house.

So - the ones he stole - where they intended to be used for another crime?

or did he need to sell the stolen guns to obtain cash for another item he wanted to purchase?

I originally thought because he did the offence while the people where home- the motivation was to send a message to the neighbour's or to even up a longstanding issue he had with them.

But maybe he was planning something else with the stolen items. MOO

I think it is inconclusive if one of the stolen firearms was used to kill CM. They can't tell if it was, or wasn't.
I was wondering why they couldn't make a definitive comparison. Is it possible that they don't have the bullet that killed CM?


According to court documents, multiple items were found including a BSA .22 calibre bolt action rifle, Winchester Level Action 3030 shotgun, empty magazine clip from the rifle, ammunition, a bag with spent/unused cartridges, and black garbage bags.

JS’s fingerprints were allegedly found on the rifle, and ballistics examinations of the firearm identified characteristics consistent with the firearm used in the alleged murder, but investigators were unable to make a definitive comparison.

(From the article in this post Australia - JS, 32 y.o. man, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. girl , Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #2 )


The article also says that no-one was home during the B&E. CCTV at the house caught them doing the B&E. But they were unidentifiable dark figures. They realised who they were during the investigation into CM's murder, when they found they were in possession of the stolen items.

 

[Marg944]

JS's murder charge, together with 2 other charges, were listed for Friday 7th October, for Charge Certification (Committal), yet nothing has been mentioned in the media.

 

[Marg944]

Lawlink site shows that KM is to be sentenced tomorrow, 24th October. She has pleaded guilty to a charge of break and enter a dwelling in company, & stealing to a value not exceeding $60,000.

 

[bearbear]

CM's mum K ordered to undergo rehab after break in, gun theft​

<MODNOTE - Edited to change name to initials to avoid identifying minor child; please follow the link>

 

[Marg944]

Mother of alleged murder victim CM avoids jail over home invasion​

"Ms M — who is receiving treatment for drugs and alcohol at a "live-in" centre — did not speak to journalists as she made her way into the building.

The court heard the robbery happened at a Mount Wilson property in August 2021 in front of a "vulnerable elderly person", and, that several family antique items were also stolen.

It's alleged her former fiancé, JS, stole the guns from the property, and that Ms M was with him.

Ms M's lawyer, Bet Turgut, told the court her client was prepared to give evidence against Mr Stein in future proceedings."

KM avoids jail

 

[Marg944]

JS has 3 matters listed for Court on 2nd Dec at Penrith Local Court - listed for Charge Certification (Committal).

 

[PrimeSuspect]

• Court documents now allege C's death was domestic violence related
• His defence team will contest this classification
• Mr Stein will remain behind bars until his next court appearance in February

Court documents show Mr S has now also been charged with "improperly interfere with a corpse or human remains" and alleges he "did offer an indignity" to her remains.

JS 'interfered' with CM's body after alleged murder, court hears

His defense will argue the domestic violence charge as there was no prior relationship with CM.
So he met poor little C for the first time when she came down to the Blue Mountains?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

• Court documents now allege C's death was domestic violence related
• His defence team will contest this classification
• Mr S will remain behind bars until his next court appearance in February

Court documents show Mr S has now also been charged with "improperly interfere with a corpse or human remains" and alleges he "did offer an indignity" to her remains.

Are we to infer that CM was shot dead unintentionally during a violent incident between KM & JS ? That JS then took charge in a cover up that denied CM dignity and a proper funeral? If so, where are all the additional related charges?

 

[Doesitmakesense]

What does this actually mean?
"improperly interfere with a corpse or human remains"
I googled by it's not clear

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What does this actually mean?
"improperly interfere with a corpse or human remains"
I googled by it's not clear

I think it means when you don’t do the right thing and prevent a lawful burial ? Or mess around / butcher the deceased person, maybe in this case putting CM in a barrel of sand etc ?

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>

His defense will argue the domestic violence charge as there was no prior relationship with CM.
So he met poor little C for the first time when she came down to the Blue Mountains?

I guess the prosecution's stance is going to be along the lines of CM having been living with her mother and JS for a few weeks, JS was the mother's fiance, and JS was likely given permission/asked to have some 'dad and daughter' time together.

I wonder if we will ever find out how CM ended up being alone with him for a couple of days.

imo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I guess the prosecution's stance is going to be along the lines of CM having been living with her mother and JS for a few weeks, JS was the mother's fiance, and JS was likely given permission/asked to have some 'dad and daughter' time together.

I wonder if we will ever find out how CM ended up being alone with him for a couple of days.

imo

We don't know for sure that she was alone with him for a couple of days.

 

[Webbie2021]

I think it means when you don’t do the right thing and prevent a lawful burial ? Or mess around / butcher the deceased person, maybe in this case putting CM in a barrel of sand etc ?

That's exactly what it means. It's a broad definition including anything a reasonable person would regard as improper treatment of a body, including trying to dispose of one. There may be more to it, but we don't know the details.

Are we to infer that CM was shot dead unintentionally during a violent incident between KM & JS ? That JS then took charge in a cover up that denied CM dignity and a proper funeral? If so, where are all the additional related charges?

No! There's no suggestion of any of that. "Domestic violence" can refer to any violence in the domestic sphere - it's not always intimate partner violence.

All we know is that the crime has been classified as "domestic violence related," and the fact that the victim was a child of JS's partner would explain that.

His lawyer is now contesting that classification on the basis that JS was not CM's stepfather and had no familial relationship with her. In other words, they're trying to minimise the charges based on technicalities, which is what lawyers do.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That's exactly what it means. It's a broad definition including anything a reasonable person would regard as improper treatment of a body, including trying to dispose of one. There may be more to it, but we don't know the details.

No! There's no suggestion of any of that. "Domestic violence" can refer to any violence in the domestic sphere - it's not always intimate partner violence.

All we know is that the crime has been classified as "domestic violence related," and he fact that the victim was a child of JS's partner would explain that.

His lawyer is now contesting that classification on the basis that JS was not CM's stepfather and had no familial relationship with her. In other words, they're trying to minimise the charges based on technicalities, which is what lawyers do.

Oh... thanks for the explanation.

I'm no legal expert and things are different over there than where I live in the UK but to my mind there's nothing 'domestic' about what was going on with KM and JS or even between KM and CM, never mind JS and the child. So maybe this lawyer has got a point?

 

[Marg944]

I thought that the new charges of "domestic violence" were extra charges, on top of his murder charge. But this article states that the original murder charge has been changed to a "domestic violence allegation".

"Penrith Local Court on Friday heard the new charge and that Stein's murder charge had been altered to classify it as a domestic violence offence."

CM Murder

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I thought that the new charges of "domestic violence" were extra charges, on top of his murder charge. But this article states that the original murder charge has been changed to a "domestic violence allegation".

"Penrith Local Court on Friday heard the new charge and that Stein's murder charge had been altered to classify it as a domestic violence offence."

CM Murder

Oh my goodness, what can this possibly mean? Against whom is it alleged JS perpetrated 'domestic violence'? I guess it must be against KM and not CM? Perhaps the authorities can't prove he harmed CM, just moved her body around, in line with the other charge of improperly interfering etc? Is JS going to allege he doesn't know how CM came to be shot but it wasn't him?

 

[Marg944]

Oh my goodness, what can this possibly mean? Against whom is it alleged JS perpetrated 'domestic violence'? I guess it must be against KM and not CM? Perhaps the authorities can't prove he harmed CM, just moved her body around, in line with the other charge of improperly interfering etc? Is JS going to allege he doesn't know how CM came to be shot but it wasn't him?

I had the same idea Observe, that they perhaps cannot prove the murder?

• Prosecutors have changed murder charge to domestic violence allegation

CM Murder

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I had the same idea Observe, that they perhaps cannot prove the murder?

• Prosecutors have changed murder charge to domestic violence allegation

CM Murder

Really sad news I wonder if he's making any allegations as to how she did get shot or just keeping silent.

 

[Webbie2021]

Oh... thanks for the explanation.

I'm no legal expert and things are different over there than where I live in the UK but to my mind there's nothing 'domestic' about what was going on with KM and JS or even between KM and CM, never mind JS and the child. So maybe this lawyer has got a point?

"Domestic" doesn't mean "happy family circle." It refers to any kind of abuse by a family member, a partner, or the partner of a family member. If you're a child and your mother's boyfriend harms you, that's domestic violence, even if he doesn't live with you.

The domestic violence classification does refer to the murder of CM.

The murder charge has not been exchanged for a domestic violence charge. It's been classified as a domestic violence related crime. A domestic violence related crime is arguably more serious than other crime, especially when the victim is a child, because the alleged killer - no matter who they are - has a duty of care to the person they harmed. The victim was also in a position of trust that allows an opportunistic perpetrator to harm them.

So, for example, CM may have been left with with JS because her mother was in an intimate partnership with him and trusted him with her child. However unfit a parent-figure he may have been, and however dysfunctional his relationship with the mother, he (a) had a special duty of care to CM, more so than a random abductor unknown to her, and (b) he exploited the access he had to her because of his relation to her to harm her.

These are very serious aspects of the charges, and should not be dropped. It's obviously extremely important to uphold laws deigned to product children and other victims of domestic violence. Dropping that classification would be a small win for JS, and a loss for victims generally, especially if it sets a precedent.

It's not "sad news" that the alleged crime has been classified as domestic violence related, it's good news. The police are obviously being very thorough and fleshing out the charges in the hope that a court imposes a significant sentence.