Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #5

[ScottKam]

This is what gets me so angry with the system. All I see in the media/on tv is helicopters flying over farmland and looking at dams.

The first place I could think to dump a body would be in the Lerderderg state park. Why are they not searching there? It's an awfully big area. But jeez. Do a sweep of every road within the park.

If Borce offloaded Karen's body to either VR or AR to take her to another place and then he drove back, she could be anywhere within a 500km radius.

Remember ages ago when i said that the cops had 'jack', which is why they were riding the ponies in the fields? People chastised me for being rude. But now those ponies are substituted for motor-power and they're riding bikes in the hopes of a miracle. It seems as if the cops have no idea where she is, but they're making best guesses based on geography and time. I hope i'm wrong, but it doesn't look like it, which is why they need CCTV footage to catch Borce (or VR or AR) up there to then grill them in the hope they'll reveal something. They're just running the heuristics, it seems, and making mathematical guesses as to where she would be. She could be 500km away for all the cops know. That's how i feel. But i admit this could be false; it's just my intuition. There you go, first time i've invoked it, Tiddles. Must be catching.... hehehehehe

 

[wewillgetyou]

I really think that nobody but BR is involved. It becomes very risky to involve other people in murder ( not that I've had experience ! Lol )

It just takes one slip up from any of the involved parties ( if there are more than 1 ) and the whole charade is over.

Gosh what if he killed her and rang VR and asked for help and VR said are you crazy and straight away called the police.
If you try and involve others they would need to be there at the time of the killing, not bought in later because you really don't know how a person would react to being dragged into a murder.

 

[Armchair snoop]

Yes, he should really set his FB to private.

NNNNOOOOOOO we'll miss out on all the fun.

 

[ScottKam]

I really think that nobody but BR is involved. It becomes very risky to involve other people in murder ( not that I've had experience ! Lol )

It just takes one slip up from any of the involved parties ( if there are more than 1 ) and the whole charade is over.

Gosh what if he killed her and rang VR and asked for help and VR said are you crazy and straight away called the police.
If you try and involve others they would need to be there at the time of the killing, not bought in later because you really don't know how a person would react to being dragged into a murder.

I reckon if BR phoned VR and said, bro, i need your help PRONTO. I think VR would leap to his aid. The idea that Karen might have been disposed by VR is ABSOLUTELY a viable prospect. I am very sceptical about AR being involved, but i won't rule it out either. I think both could have been involved after the fact, if at all. I do, however, think the staircase-fall theory is viable, with BR covering up, by offloading Karen to VR in the bush. Jesus! WHO KNOWS. i'm quitting speculation until we know more details. But i am still maintaining that CCTV footage is the main priority now, not the body. You have nowhere to move with CCTV footage. You're roast dinner.

 

[JLZ]

I really think that nobody but BR is involved. It becomes very risky to involve other people in murder ( not that I've had experience ! Lol )

It just takes one slip up from any of the involved parties ( if there are more than 1 ) and the whole charade is over.

Gosh what if he killed her and rang VR and asked for help and VR said are you crazy and straight away called the police.
If you try and involve others they would need to be there at the time of the killing, not bought in later because you really don't know how a person would react to being dragged into a murder.

You could bring in someone else for the purpose of laying the blame on them, if necessary. You might have a fair idea of how they'll react . . . "I picked you".

 

[Armchair snoop]

I agree, an ambulance should have been called. I don't know why they would not have. Maybe they panicked and thought they would get tried for murder and decided to conceal it all.

Yeah I don't agree with the struggle thing. If that did occur a call for ambulance and police would have cleared it up pretty quick, if it was an accident.

 

[Armchair snoop]

I don't want to stir a hornet's nest here, but I have been of the opinion since thread 1 or 2, that police think that SR knows something. Remember the appeal for someone to "have courage and come forward"? This kind of comment seems to relate to someone in the inner circle, because why would a random member of the public specifically need "courage" to come forward? The only reason a witness would need courage was if they were going to see consequences from coming forward.

IMO SR may well know something but more likely after the fact rather then before the fact. The Police would have looked at all angles with the info they had at hand. They would have then sorted that info into plausible and non-plausible. They will then look for motive and opportunity. As more info becomes available they 'turn up the heat'. With no body yet to provide more compelling evidence they need as much evidence from other sources. If they do find her body and it provides evidence of defensive wounds etc then yes the falling down stairs theory may come into it but so far I cannot recall this theory being made public.

 

[0101ABA]

:bump:

Reminder in accordance with TOS:

Other than victim or known perp, please remember to use initials when referring to anyone who is not an officially named POI or suspect.

:tyou:

Just a heads up that from here forward, posts that violate the TOS by using full names will not be edited by a mod/Admin to convert names to initials, they will simply be removed.

 

[Pepper77]

@ScottKam: Nice to see you posting again.

I was reconsidering your 'could be similar to Herman Rockefeller' post this morning. You could well be on to something there, methinks.

 

[Oz Jen]

yeah, good call. I agree. Obviously there is the emotional impact of finding the dead torso. That finality is tectonic and it helps smooth the prosecution, but not always, as we've seen today. Gerard Baden Clay truly is a .

Can we please just leave off with the references to torso.
As sleep has said, the terms are not interchangeable.

 

[Armchair snoop]

Yep. Hence soil samples taken from tyres on the Ristevski's vehicles and the shovel. That, too, is not absolute proof. What would be absolute proof? CCTV footage of Borce in Gisborne, a place he did not admit to being on the day. I would convict him based on that, even without a body. But if a body was found, though no evidence was provided of Borce in Gisborne, and no soil samples on tyres or shovels, then i wouldn't convict him.

BBM. A confession, and that would be what the police are aiming for by putting pressure on the POI. But that is going to be more difficult now he has employed a high priced silk.

 

[ScottKam]

Can we please just leave off with the references to torso.
As sleep has said, the terms are not interchangeable.

I must have picked it up from crime shows; it just slipped into my writing. I wasn't consciously saying it. But i don't think a reference to torso necessarily implies dismemberment. They always refer to torsos in tv crime shows. It just seems to be a world generally bandied about. I don't see why people fixated on it.

 

[ScottKam]

@ScottKam: Nice to see you posting again.

I was reconsidering your 'could be similar to Herman Rockefeller' post this morning. You could well be on to something there, methinks.

Thanks Pepper.

I ventured that theory precisely before the info about the phone pings came out, and then i was banned LOL.

I don't know what to think anymore. If Borce has killed Karen then the question remains why. The cheating aspect could be one reason.

I think there will be a twist to this case which we haven't really thought much about, or is merely a far fetched idea at the moment.

 

[ScottKam]

BBM. A confession, and that would be what the police are aiming for by putting pressure on the POI. But that is going to be more difficult now he has employed a high priced silk.

This kind of thinking is what sent me off on writing spree before. There is a contradiction here. So the cops, people are saying, can't charge Borce. Well if they can't charge Borce, then why would he confess to something which will not see him charged? It seems this is boiling down to a roll of the dice by both parties, police and Borce. Obviously we'll have to see what new evidence comes out. But without a body, and with only circumstantial evidence, it seems like there will be some doubt, not sure how great it will be. In that case, Borce won't confess, he'll fight the charges. That's why i was saying CCTV footage is more important than a dead body as it'll hopefully catch him in a lie. I think you can convict on a lie- i would. The idea with lies is the degree to which one is convinced it proves something. In this case, i think Borce's lying would prove he killed Karen and i would convict him on lies. Others might disagree and need more evidence. Lying is a disaster for his case. How's he going to defend himself? He forgot? lol

 

[JLZ]

BBM. A confession, and that would be what the police are aiming for by putting pressure on the POI. But that is going to be more difficult now he has employed a high priced silk.

I don't think KL is a silk. She's not even listed as a barrister: https://www.vicbar.com.au/barrister-directory/barrister-directory-az?letter=L . We're not in a position to know what she charges. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[JLZ]

This kind of thinking is what sent me off on writing spree before. There is a contradiction here. So the cops, people are saying, can't charge Borce. Well if they can't charge Borce, then why would he confess to something which will not see him charged? It seems this is boiling down to a roll of the dice by both parties, police and Borce. Obviously we'll have to see what new evidence comes out. But without a body, and with only circumstantial evidence, it seems like there will be some doubt, not sure how great it will be. In that case, Borce won't confess, he'll fight the charges. That's why i was saying CCTV footage is more important than a dead body as it'll hopefully catch him in a lie. I think you can convict on a lie- i would. The idea with lies is the degree to which one is convinced it proves something. In this case, i think Borce's lying would prove he killed Karen and i would convict him on lies. Others might disagree and need more evidence. Lying is a disaster for his case. How's he going to defend himself? He forgot? lol

If you tried to charge everyone who tells a lie with murder, there wouldn't be enough missing people to go around.

First of all, you need to prove that Karen is dead. If being missing isn't enough to prove death for the purposes of inheritance until seven years have passed, it certainly isn't enough for the purposes of criminal law.

 

[Bohemian]

Being pedantic (which I am because I studied Anatomy and Physiology, Anatomical Pathology and the Identification of Human Remains at university level) and accurate but uncomplicated:

Torso

'The torso or trunk is an anatomical term for the central part of the many animal bodies (including that of the human) from which extend the neck and limbs. The torso includes the thorax and the abdomen."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torso

Human body

'The human body is the entire structure of a human being and comprises a head, neck, trunk (which includes the thorax and abdomen), arms and hands, legs and feet.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body

In Forensic Biology, deceased persons are treated with respect. Their bodies, whether intact or not, are referred to as human remains or simply, remains; ie, in this case, Karen's remains.

 

[ScottKam]

If you tried to charge everyone who tells a lie with murder, there wouldn't be enough missing people to go around.

First of all, you need to prove that Karen is dead. If being missing isn't enough to prove death for the purposes of inheritance until seven years have passed, it certainly isn't enough for the purposes of criminal law.

Not everyone who lies has a "missing" wife; but many men with missing wives tend to lie Lies told around- and specifically about- missing people is concerning and possibly criminal and could very-well sugget involvement in a criminal act against the missing person. i.e. Borce used a shovel to bury Karen, after transporting her to woop woop via her benz.

People have said that in the absence of a body one can be charged with murder. Not sure how this stacks up against the 7 years missing point.

 

[ScottKam]

Being pedantic (which I am because I studied Anatomy and Physiology, Anatomical Pathology and the Identification of Human Remains at university level) and accurate but uncomplicated:

Torso

'The torso or trunk is an anatomical term for the central part of the many animal bodies (including that of the human) from which extend the neck and limbs. The torso includes the thorax and the abdomen."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torso

Human body

'The human body is the entire structure of a human being and comprises a head, neck, trunk (which includes the thorax and abdomen), arms and hands, legs and feet.'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body

In Forensic Biology, deceased persons are treated with respect. Their bodies, whether intact or not, are referred to as human remains or, simply, remains.

Let's hope they find an intact human body.

 

[JLZ]

Not everyone who lies has a "missing" wife; but many men with missing wives tend to lie Lies told around- and specifically about- missing people is concerning and possibly criminal and could very-well sugget involvement in a criminal act against the missing person. i.e. Borce used a shovel to bury Karen, after transporting her to woop woop via her benz.

People have said that in the absence of a body one can be charged with murder. Not sure how this stacks up against the 7 years missing point.

In the absence of a body, there needs to be other evidence of death. (Edit: "remains".)

Moving on, what's that about the shovel? I think I remember that a shovel was taken from the BR residence for examination. Have the results of the examination been released? Many people have shovels.