jonmarbles
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i think this may be the man who killed jon bennet ramsey i certan simalaritys
Australia Australia - Karmein Chan, 13, Templestowe, Vic, 13 April 1991
- Thread starter Pettibon Junction
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jonmarbles
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could he be conected to this murder Australia - Australia - Margaret, 35, & Seana Tapp, 9, Ferntree Gully, Vic, 8 Aug 1984
Man I would like to see this one solved along with most of the population. Just commenting to bump.
Also just listened to a couple of Andrew rule podcasts speaking to Damien Marrett who worked on the case for a time.
Couple of comments to note that are news to me, from him and some digging around his name on the case.
1. His thoughts are that Mr Cruel has either suicided or since died
2. They investigated suicides in the time after her death to see if anything came up on potential suspects
3. Houses where checked in the area at the time under the guise of detectives working for water and sewerage company (planned In conjunction with council as it was something they were checking at the time) so that they could check as many houses as they could without a warrant for each
4. Investigations on known pedophiles was in depth and he commented that it was quite a shock to see the sheer number rock spiders needed to be ticked off the list
Also just listened to a couple of Andrew rule podcasts speaking to Damien Marrett who worked on the case for a time.
Couple of comments to note that are news to me, from him and some digging around his name on the case.
1. His thoughts are that Mr Cruel has either suicided or since died
2. They investigated suicides in the time after her death to see if anything came up on potential suspects
3. Houses where checked in the area at the time under the guise of detectives working for water and sewerage company (planned In conjunction with council as it was something they were checking at the time) so that they could check as many houses as they could without a warrant for each
4. Investigations on known pedophiles was in depth and he commented that it was quite a shock to see the sheer number rock spiders needed to be ticked off the list
An overview of suspects from April 2016 news article:
1. Brian Alan Elkner – self confirmed suspect lives in Thornbury
2. 66 at time of article approx 70 today - lived in Eltham at the time of attacks, then moved to box hill, owned businesses in Mont Albert North, then moved to Lake Cathie, then married a Canadian moved to Canada
3. Name changed by deed poll 1988, has changed his name twice- lives in musk near Daylesford
4. Died in 2015 at age 66 lived in Knoxfield at time of attacks
5. lived in Balwyn at time of attacks
6. barely resides at his harcourt home - usually in Melbourne
7. no one has seen, formerly resided in glen iris aged at 67 at time of article and would be approx 71 now if alive.
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1. Brian Alan Elkner – self confirmed suspect lives in Thornbury
2. 66 at time of article approx 70 today - lived in Eltham at the time of attacks, then moved to box hill, owned businesses in Mont Albert North, then moved to Lake Cathie, then married a Canadian moved to Canada
3. Name changed by deed poll 1988, has changed his name twice- lives in musk near Daylesford
4. Died in 2015 at age 66 lived in Knoxfield at time of attacks
5. lived in Balwyn at time of attacks
6. barely resides at his harcourt home - usually in Melbourne
7. no one has seen, formerly resided in glen iris aged at 67 at time of article and would be approx 71 now if alive.
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Could be !
On another note to this case, psychologist Tim Watson-Munro was consulted to profile Mr cruel.
He states in the brief there were other cases connected, which related to detention and rape of an elderly nun and other adult rape cases - so he was not just a pedophile.
I do wonder if this could of hurt the investigation on potential suspects being provided by the community - if they were aware he had assaulted older females.
He states in the brief there were other cases connected, which related to detention and rape of an elderly nun and other adult rape cases - so he was not just a pedophile.
I do wonder if this could of hurt the investigation on potential suspects being provided by the community - if they were aware he had assaulted older females.
Just reading through the thread on this one as well.. so sad!
if there was a connection to Mr cruel, would this have perhaps made him more careful with evidence ? Just going to run a date check on that
Just reading through the thread on this one as well.. so sad!
if there was a connection to Mr cruel, would this have perhaps made him more careful with evidence ? Just going to run a date check on that
Tapp murders: Date: 7 August 1984
Mr cruel associated:
Elderly nun: no date as yet but Predated “mr Cruel” crimes
1st victim: 22 August 1987
Sharon: 27 December 1988
Nicola: 3 July 1990
Karmein: Died: 13 April 1991
Last edited:
illyana
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Just heard about this case on the Criminology podcast. It's absolutely awful and the balaclava he wore is one of the most frightening things I've seen, the weird face-like features on it.
I believe this can be solved. This killer and rapist targeted his victims with great care. I believe if a social graph of everyone involved in the Melbourne school system - including things like counselors, delivery drivers, police - were put into a database, it could be sorted out.
I also think Melbourne PD is pretty close to knowing who it is, they have seven likelies. This last bit may be unpopular, but I believe Commonwealth law is too forgiving of criminals and too protective of their rights. Under another jurisdiction, these suspects may have been more aggressively searched and questioned and the innocent narrowed out, the guilty remaining. Sorry, just my opinion.
I believe this can be solved. This killer and rapist targeted his victims with great care. I believe if a social graph of everyone involved in the Melbourne school system - including things like counselors, delivery drivers, police - were put into a database, it could be sorted out.
I also think Melbourne PD is pretty close to knowing who it is, they have seven likelies. This last bit may be unpopular, but I believe Commonwealth law is too forgiving of criminals and too protective of their rights. Under another jurisdiction, these suspects may have been more aggressively searched and questioned and the innocent narrowed out, the guilty remaining. Sorry, just my opinion.
Police are looking into unsolved rapes known previously as operation collier, a series of violent rapes and attempted abductions around the Dandenong ranges; including Belgrave and Menzies creek. 4 rapes and 5 attempted abductions occurred between 1996 and 2001.
I’m trying to locate some further information on this. Just thought it could be relevant or of interest.
I’m trying to locate some further information on this. Just thought it could be relevant or of interest.
Chestnutsunfish
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Here after watching the Under Investigation episode last night called ‘Mapping and Cruel’.
The map they have developed looks like it might be the thing needed to crack this. Only a matter of time before someone comes forward with useful information.
The link to electrical substations is especially interesting and I hadn’t heard it before but it is too intrinsically linked to each case to be a coincidence.
Did anyone else get to watch?
Does anyone have any knowledge about what kinds of jobs/companies would work on these substations? Particularly I believe it was victim 2 who’s house backed on to one - what kind of workers would be at these sites?
The map they have developed looks like it might be the thing needed to crack this. Only a matter of time before someone comes forward with useful information.
The link to electrical substations is especially interesting and I hadn’t heard it before but it is too intrinsically linked to each case to be a coincidence.
Did anyone else get to watch?
Does anyone have any knowledge about what kinds of jobs/companies would work on these substations? Particularly I believe it was victim 2 who’s house backed on to one - what kind of workers would be at these sites?
Via Marple
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I hadn't heard of the substations link before either, but then I had not been too familar with this case as I wasn't in Australia.
Apparently back in those days, all electricity related assets were state owned, according to this document:
http://library.bsl.org.au/jspui/bit...d sale of Victoria's electricity industry.pdf
The restructuring and sale of Victoria's electricity industry
by Brotherhood of St Laurence Melbourne July 1995 ISBN 0 947081 87 9
<snippet, page 8>
The Victorian Government is engaged in restructuring the electricity industry into a set of privately-owned competitive enterprises, operating under licence in a regulated marketplace. This is a profound shift from the pre-1992 structure, which had a single generating, transmission and distribution authority, the State Electricity Commission of Victoria (SEC), responsible for almost the entire industry, including electrical safety standards. While eleven councils distributed electricity in their local government areas, and a number of independent power sources contributed power to the grid, the SEC was essentially a monopoly supplier.
... so great changes were happening to the VIC electricity industry, from 1992. Coincidence too?
The body of Karmein Chan (left) was found a year after she was abducted from her parents' home. She had been shot three times in the head
Pictured is a sketch of what Mr Cruel may look like as experts weigh in on the case
March 2022
Possible breakthrough in case of Mr Cruel who abducted girls and murdered one in 1980s in Melbourne | Daily Mail Online
''Mr Cruel, whose identity is still unknown, assaulted at least four young girls in Melbourne in the late 1980s and early 1990s, abducting three and killing one.
Karmein Chan, a 13-year-old private schoolgirl snatched from her home after her sisters were forced into a wardrobe, was shot three times in the head.
The mystery clean freak's brazen attacks were so meticulously planned and committed in such a calculated fashion he was initially known as 'Mr Cool'.
None of his surviving victims ever saw Mr Cruel's face, which was hidden by a chilling black balaclava with white stitching around the eyes and mouth. ''
''From a geographic perspective we just have to keep thinking, why is he comfortable in this area? Why is he selecting the victims where he is? And why is he disposing of them where he is?'.''
''Shockingly, a witness told the program that in 1988 her brothers saw a strange man filming one of his victim's homes six weeks before she was taken.''
The house backed onto a block of electrical towers
''By now police had this description of the offender: Caucasian, aged between 30 and 50, from 173 to 180 centimetres tall, of medium build with a small pot belly. ''
imstilla.grandma
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A major breakthrough has been made in one of Melbourne’s most notorious abduction mysteries more than 30 years after an unknown masked offender kidnapped young girls.
Dubbed “Mr Cruel”, the serial child rapist attacked three girls in the northern and eastern suburbs of Melbourne in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and is the prime suspect in the 1991 abduction and murder of a fourth girl, Karmein Chan.
While the case has remained unsolved, new details have suggested the suspect may have been linked to the city’s electrical industry.
Cutting-edge technology, revealed in Channel 9’s Under Investigation series overnight, has created a map linking similarities between the abductions of three victims.
Former criminal investigator Mike King doesn’t believe in coincidences.
https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...y/news-story/318bc9381837cde0682077c84be75ca0
Now cutting edge technology has created a possible link between the attacker and the electricity industry in Melbourne.
During Channel Nine's Under Investigation on Wednesday night, a world-first software system known as GIS was used by experts to create a map linking similarities between the three abductions.
Mr Cruel's first victim was not removed from her house and was instead assaulted just metres away from her parents, who'd been bound and gagged.
But the next three were all abducted, two would return home but Karmein would never be seen again.
Possible breakthrough in case of Mr Cruel who abducted girls and murdered one in 1980s in Melbourne | Daily Mail Online
Police own goals help obscure Karmein’s killer
A serial child abductor, a triad execution or a kidnap for ransom? Thirty years on, a cunning killer and police missteps have kept Karmein Chan’s death a mystery.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscr...c-cold-control-noscore&V21spcbehaviour=append
Dubbed “Mr Cruel”, the serial child rapist attacked three girls in the northern and eastern suburbs of Melbourne in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and is the prime suspect in the 1991 abduction and murder of a fourth girl, Karmein Chan.
While the case has remained unsolved, new details have suggested the suspect may have been linked to the city’s electrical industry.
Cutting-edge technology, revealed in Channel 9’s Under Investigation series overnight, has created a map linking similarities between the abductions of three victims.
Former criminal investigator Mike King doesn’t believe in coincidences.
https://www.news.com.au/national/vi...y/news-story/318bc9381837cde0682077c84be75ca0
Now cutting edge technology has created a possible link between the attacker and the electricity industry in Melbourne.
During Channel Nine's Under Investigation on Wednesday night, a world-first software system known as GIS was used by experts to create a map linking similarities between the three abductions.
Mr Cruel's first victim was not removed from her house and was instead assaulted just metres away from her parents, who'd been bound and gagged.
But the next three were all abducted, two would return home but Karmein would never be seen again.
Possible breakthrough in case of Mr Cruel who abducted girls and murdered one in 1980s in Melbourne | Daily Mail Online
Police own goals help obscure Karmein’s killer
A serial child abductor, a triad execution or a kidnap for ransom? Thirty years on, a cunning killer and police missteps have kept Karmein Chan’s death a mystery.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscr...c-cold-control-noscore&V21spcbehaviour=append
May 13 2023
www.dailymail.co.uk
''A chess teacher once suspected of being the notorious Mr Cruel has backed calls for detectives to interview a woman who claims she knows where the real killer lives.
Karmein Chan, a 13-year-old private schoolgirl snatched from her home after her sisters were forced into a wardrobe, was shot three times in the head by a man later dubbed Mr Cruel.
Christian Bennett had taught both Karmein and Nicola Lynas - who was abducted and released by Mr Cruel - the game of chess at Presbyterian Ladies College in the 1980s.''
''He had been an early suspect in the case due to his ability to speak the two Chinese languages spoken by Karmein, was known to have visited Hong Kong many times and had a Hong Kong Cantonese girlfriend at the time of the crimes.''
''The woman claims Mr Cruel did not act alone and believes his accomplice is the man detectives believe is Mr Cruel.
Mr Bennett's personal research on Mr Cruel was aired in part last year on Channel Nine's Under Investigation program.
The program produced an image of a man it believed was Mr Cruel, suggesting he may have worked or posed as a substation employee, or lived closeby.''
Chess teacher once suspected being Mr Cruel child killer backs witness
A man once suspected of being the notorious Mr Cruel has backed calls for detectives to interview a woman who claims she knows where the real killer lives.
Karmein Chan, a 13-year-old private schoolgirl snatched from her home after her sisters were forced into a wardrobe, was shot three times in the head by a man later dubbed Mr Cruel.
Christian Bennett had taught both Karmein and Nicola Lynas - who was abducted and released by Mr Cruel - the game of chess at Presbyterian Ladies College in the 1980s.''
''He had been an early suspect in the case due to his ability to speak the two Chinese languages spoken by Karmein, was known to have visited Hong Kong many times and had a Hong Kong Cantonese girlfriend at the time of the crimes.''
''The woman claims Mr Cruel did not act alone and believes his accomplice is the man detectives believe is Mr Cruel.
Mr Bennett's personal research on Mr Cruel was aired in part last year on Channel Nine's Under Investigation program.
The program produced an image of a man it believed was Mr Cruel, suggesting he may have worked or posed as a substation employee, or lived closeby.''