GUILTY Australia - Kylie Maybury, 6, abducted & murdered, Preston, Vic, 6 Nov 1984

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Ausgirl, would you agree that Kylie's killer most likely forced her into sexual poses and positions and acts for pornographic still pictures or amateur video?

It's the only reason that i can think of that he would keep her prisoner for several hours.
 
Tash, I can't honestly say "most" likely. With so little info to go on... I can only say it's "possible" he "may have" held her for that purpose, as many pedos have done, in cases where they've drugged the victim. But equally, he could have just wanted her quiet while he raped her for hours, that happens too...

But then - we have Mr. Creepy Photographer, lurking about looking for kids to take pics of... you really have to wonder what kind. I really want to research that hard, whether anyone else reported such a man lurking anywhere around Melbourne in that time frame.

Poor little thing. I hope she was unconscious for all of it. I really prefer to think she was. :(
 
About the sugar bag... I think that the killer probably disposed of it... after all, there are many sugar bags in household pantries... One extra among many would not really be noticed to be honest... or he could have simply binned the sugar bag.

I don't think Kylie dropped it on the pavement, It would have been found... unless it *was* found and it just wasn't mentioned in the 30th anniversary article?
 
Just collecting some fact-snips.
an autopsy performed later that day revealed Kylie was suffocated while being raped. She had suffered horrific internal injuries.

The autopsy showed her injuries were caused by somebody probably three times her size committing unspeakable acts on her tiny body.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...113797961?nk=18660066d0a02561d8b23429ab72ae93

“I deployed police in mobile units and on foot to search all streets, lanes, reserves and school grounds within a radius of approximately 1km,’’ he said.

“When the area had been thoroughly searched, the search was extended to include the tram lines in High St and Gooch St. The yards of private homes in the vicinity of Gregory Grove were searched by police and specific addresses of school friends of the missing child were also visited by the police and checked.’’

Sen-Det Woolfe later told the coroner: “Because of the comprehensive search for the deceased, which encompassed Donald St, it must be concluded that the body was not left there until very late at night.

State Forensic Science Laboratory officer Alan Atchison found traces of semen on swabs taken from Kylie. He also identified male brown pubic hairs on Kylie’s right leg.


There were many reports to police about a photographer who had been touting for business in the streets near the murder scene in the weeks before Kylie was killed. Police were told he stopped parents and asked if he could photograph their children. Police provided the media with a photofit of the mystery photographer, who was eventually tracked down and eliminated as a suspect.


POLICE interviewed Lowe within weeks of Kylie’s murder about complaints made by six-year-old Pauline Montalto and her sister Melissa, 11, that Lowe had talked dirty to them, exposed himself in front of them and begged them to go with him. That incident took place in Tyler St, Preston, not far from where Kylie’s body was found.

KYLIE’S Strawberry Shortcake handbag was found in Tyner Rd, Wantirna, near Lowe’s Glen Waverley home.
----

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...113797961?nk=18660066d0a02561d8b23429ab72ae93
 
Lowe was eliminated as a suspect but given he was in the area perhaps looking at his "friends" might be possible. Rock spiders do like to get together.

Another thought- regarding the camera/video camera line of thinking. They weren't overly common in households then, we certainly didn't have either, none of my friends or family did either. Apart from those with a good disposable income- the single people. IMO he's local, not married but possibly lived with parents or something hence the disposal method. He had time with her but then had to quickly get rid of evidence.

Also, sorry, cameras again. Unless he had a dark room or access to a dark room someone developed those pictures. Or did he have a Polaroid?

Hmmm. Too many questions.
 
I still think it's likely he forced her into sexual poses and positions for some sort of camera or recording device, given he kept her for several hours. If he had contact with other pedos, they might have given him a still or video camera. I'm thinking Polaroid, too - less chance of nosey film developers asking awkward questions or reporting it.
 
I think he drugged her so there was less screaming. Maybe he had nosy neighbors or was concerned about passers by. I agree that if he didn't have his own dark room that having pics developed back then without others seeing the content would be difficult. I know the article said the photographer was cleared. Maybe he found the bag after returning from dumping her in the gutter or found it in his car the next day and just threw it out the window.
I hope they can get a DNA match somehow or someone talks.


MOO!!
 
It says a lot that he didn't destroy Kylie's handbag, he just dumped it. Other perps would have burned it in the backyard incinerator.
 
"I need to know who killed my daughter. It won’t bring Kylie back, but at least I could begin to start a new life." - Julie Maybury, Kylie's mother.

At least we now have the whole Web Sleuths army to help her.
 
I'm pretty certain that more was done to Kylie than just raping her.

Probably forced into sexual or pornographic poses and positions.

The police won't have released some details of what they know, in order to weed out false confessors and attention seekers - they did the same with Mr. Cruel.
 
Kylie's case kept me up till sunrise this morning. Poor baby:( I'd never heard of her either. But I was only two at the time. I had those freckles and my mum used to cut my hair like Kylie's - oh how I hated it! Kylie reminds me somewhat of Alanna Gallagher murdered in Texas last year. She was also 6 and was lured by a 17 year old drug addled neighbor who raped and suffocated her before dumping her body wrapped in a tarp on a suburban street nearby. He borrowed a car to get rid of the body before his mum came home.

I'm intrigued by the DNA in this case. I read an article last night about how Victoria started freezing samples since 1981 but hundreds of sample weren't analysed until the last couple of years, when new technology became available. Initially I thought maybe Kylie's was one of those, but then I realized Robert Lowe was cleared by DNA in 1997. So detectives have had the DNA of Kylie's killer on file for at least the past 17 years. The granddad and uncle could be cleared by a familial test with Kylie's mother, I guess. So this got me wondering about the current and previous Victorian laws around collecting DNA from offenders. This has me pretty stumped and I'll need a long afternoon if I want to understand it. But from what I gather, legislation changed in 2001 to allow police to take samples without consent. And that's why Robert Lowe wasn't officially cleared until 2001. In the last couple of years, laws have changed again so that samples can be taken for any indictable offense with minimum 12 months imprisonment. Suspects for certain crimes can forced to give samples now too - can't recall if that was introduced in 2001 or 2013. What I'm effectively trying to figure out is whether there is a cut-off date prior to which DNA was less likely to have been collected, and after which it was more likely collected. My impression is that anyone convicted, in prison or on parole for violent or sex offences from 2001 is likely to have their DNA on record. But just how likely I'd like to know. I'd also like to know whether those laws were retrospective, and if so, is it standard practice to collect samples from convicted offenders who finished their sentence before 2001? Would that be routine, only if police want to compare a suspects DNA with a crime scene, or not at all? I think the sex offender record in Victoria is retrospective. What I'm getting at is whether offenders who were convicted, in prison or on parole for violent or sex offences after 2001 can be ruled out for Kylie?

I spent ages looking at the mako files for just Victoria. I don't know how complete those files are. It's not pleasant reading and there's some ridiculously lenient sentences. So for the ones who were convicted and finished their sentences in the 90's - I think they'd go on the sex offender record (if eligible) but not sure about their DNA. For some reason I kept coming back to this guy - Kevin John Carr. However, he's serving an indefinite sentence and surely his DNA is on record. He had numerous sex offences since the 70's. He might have been in prison at the time of Kylie's death. Among others he attacked a four year old girl in her driveway in the 70's, a 20 year old woman in Thornbury in the 80's, and an elderly woman at Spencer Street station in 1994. He was a violent rapist, attacked random girls/women, and in broad daylight. But no murder. I'd love to know if he's been ruled out. It also goes to show that some offenders are indiscriminate of victim age. Reading the mako files is just depressing - so many that could have done this to Kylie just in Victoria and then there's the offenders not recorded anywhere.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/repeat-sex-offender-denied-release-20090618-clw8.html

http://www.mako.org.au/temp_c.html

Very interesting article on DNA testing of cold cases in Victoria -

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ted-to-be-solved/story-fni0ffnk-1226929110661
 
Kylie's case kept me up till sunrise this morning. Poor baby:( I'd never heard of her either. But I was only two at the time. I had those freckles and my mum used to cut my hair like Kylie's - oh how I hated it! Kylie reminds me somewhat of Alanna Gallagher murdered in Texas last year. She was also 6 and was lured by a 17 year old drug addled neighbor who raped and suffocated her before dumping her body wrapped in a tarp on a suburban street nearby. He borrowed a car to get rid of the body before his mum came home.

I'm intrigued by the DNA in this case. I read an article last night about how Victoria started freezing samples since 1981 but hundreds of sample weren't analysed until the last couple of years, when new technology became available. Initially I thought maybe Kylie's was one of those, but then I realized Robert Lowe was cleared by DNA in 1997. So detectives have had the DNA of Kylie's killer on file for at least the past 17 years. The granddad and uncle could be cleared by a familial test with Kylie's mother, I guess. So this got me wondering about the current and previous Victorian laws around collecting DNA from offenders. This has me pretty stumped and I'll need a long afternoon if I want to understand it. But from what I gather, legislation changed in 2001 to allow police to take samples without consent. And that's why Robert Lowe wasn't officially cleared until 2001. In the last couple of years, laws have changed again so that samples can be taken for any indictable offense with minimum 12 months imprisonment. Suspects for certain crimes can forced to give samples now too - can't recall if that was introduced in 2001 or 2013. What I'm effectively trying to figure out is whether there is a cut-off date prior to which DNA was less likely to have been collected, and after which it was more likely collected. My impression is that anyone convicted, in prison or on parole for violent or sex offences from 2001 is likely to have their DNA on record. But just how likely I'd like to know. I'd also like to know whether those laws were retrospective, and if so, is it standard practice to collect samples from convicted offenders who finished their sentence before 2001? Would that be routine, only if police want to compare a suspects DNA with a crime scene, or not at all? I think the sex offender record in Victoria is retrospective. What I'm getting at is whether offenders who were convicted, in prison or on parole for violent or sex offences after 2001 can be ruled out for Kylie?

I spent ages looking at the mako files for just Victoria. I don't know how complete those files are. It's not pleasant reading and there's some ridiculously lenient sentences. So for the ones who were convicted and finished their sentences in the 90's - I think they'd go on the sex offender record (if eligible) but not sure about their DNA. For some reason I kept coming back to this guy - Kevin John Carr. However, he's serving an indefinite sentence and surely his DNA is on record. He had numerous sex offences since the 70's. He might have been in prison at the time of Kylie's death. Among others he attacked a four year old girl in her driveway in the 70's, a 20 year old woman in Thornbury in the 80's, and an elderly woman at Spencer Street station in 1994. He was a violent rapist, attacked random girls/women, and in broad daylight. But no murder. I'd love to know if he's been ruled out. It also goes to show that some offenders are indiscriminate of victim age. Reading the mako files is just depressing - so many that could have done this to Kylie just in Victoria and then there's the offenders not recorded anywhere.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/repeat-sex-offender-denied-release-20090618-clw8.html

http://www.mako.org.au/temp_c.html

Very interesting article on DNA testing of cold cases in Victoria -

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...ted-to-be-solved/story-fni0ffnk-1226929110661

I thought of Alannah galager too!!


MOO!!
 
Awesome post, BB. :)

If the thought of all that DNA waiting to be tested doesn't put the wind up the pedos, then one look at this lot might:

110583-ae0c7030-e18d-11e3-9ab7-20f6e47ce045.jpg


They totally look like cold case cops, don't they? Snappy suits, grim as folk. I'd crap bricks if they popped round my place, and I've done nothing wrong. :p
 
I wonder what the killer did to force Kylie to take the sedative?

Maybe he had a weapon, or just threatened her?
 
It's curious that no one saw the abduction if she was last seen on a busy road, heading in the direction of her housing commission flat.
 
Hi all. Just found this thread and i have to say that this case has really bothered me. I am in Aus but nowhere near the location so sometimes get confused when discussing areas and distances, sorry in advance.

Id just like to put forward that i dont think the posing for photos scenatio is why she was held for so long. I think that she was dead quite a while before her being left in the gutter. My first thought when i read all of the information was that the killer had to hold off getting rid of her because of the searches. Once an area had been searched. He hastily dumped her at the gutter and hightailed it out of there. Also makes me think that he was obviously very close being able to observe the searches or perhaps even assist. I think the searches made it impossible for him to dispose of her safely and right away, not that she was necessarily alive for the entire or majority of that period.

My second hunch was that it was perhaps not someone local but from a surrounding area and she was taken away, raped, murdered and then bought back so as to divert attention away from the real crime scene.

I would be interested to know the results of search surrounding areas for similar crimes.

Also, one thing that really bothers me is the fact she was redressed. To me this indicates either he had to drive with her for quite a time and perhaps was posed in a car to be 'sleeping' or that perhaps she wasnt dropped off in a car like we all think. Maybe she was carried to the spot?

Another thing that bothers me is the man that found her.
“As I turned from Tyler St into Donald St my headlights caught an unusual object lying in the gutter in Donald St, between Rene St and Tyler St,’’ Mr Rickwood said.

“I stopped my car and put my head out the window to have a closer look. I had a fair idea that it was the body of a small child. I went home and got my father out of bed and we both went back to Donald St. My father confirmed the fact that it was the body of a small child. I went back home and called the police. I went back and waited for the police to arrive.’’

It bothers me that he thought it was the body of a small child but left anyway. In the middle of the night? Someone in the Fire Brigade, an emergency service? Doesnt add up to me and my hinky meter went wild the minute i read it. Where was he driving home from??

Anyway this is all IMO and MOO and im looking forward to the discussion and sleuthing here with fellow Aussies. Our lack of publicly available sex offenders register in Aus makes cold cases like this hard.
 
Good post, Fence Sitter! Glad you're joining in.

Your first impressions of this case echo my own almost identically- I too had an "eyeball moment" at the man who found her, though I have to assume he was the first person checked out and cleared by the cops, and he want a pretty good alibi, all things considered. He's not high on my radar, for that reason. But if it turns out he wasn't checked out - that might change.

I also wondered if she'd been carried from a nearby house, that's why I was looking at that blind alley that ran between the backs of the houses for half a block, just feet from where she was found.

I think Kylie's little toy handbag being found in Wantirna was a red herring -- why indeed (good question, Tash!) wouldn't he just destroy it, or at least conceal it better... I reckon he *wanted* it found out there, and for the purpose of leading the cops away from a more local suspect, is why. I firmly believe that. And I don't think he got the bus out there - he'd have gone by car.. so I think we can be reasonably sure he drove, and had access to a car.

Plus, the doubling back to leave her where cops had already searched really is the best clue to him being local I think -- good point, FS, that he may have even joined the search, so many of these sick freaks do that, it can't be discounted.
 

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