Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[thunderwombat]

I have to say I enjoyed hearing from Fernand himself in Episode 15 ... I quite like him and I get where he's coming from, quite entertaining, clever and interesting really. I mean, he must feel like he's been caught in the twilight zone or something if he knows nothing about Marion, it'd be enough to blow anyone's mind. Let's see, they came to his door and were filming and recording him. That's fine. He films them and he gets declared strange and suspicious. They have his address and come to his door, and film his home for the worldwide audience, even aerial view if you don't mind, and he decides to ask for their address and he's declared strange and odd again ... he's merely copying what's been done to him to demonstrate the absurdity of it all - I did like this line from him, "I don't know if in Australia people are not - not intelligent, or logical, I don't know."
I still wonder how in the world is he involved? If Home Affairs have footage of Marion returning, that'll seal it once and for all you would think. The money was withdrawn from here daily, Marion never left the country again, and no Remakel's have been here. How in the name of logic is it possible? I'm siding with the Luxembourg Remakels as innocent victims in this saga. My current thoughts are that Marion unfortunately got caught up with some kind of cult/group, and something has happened after that. Just where I'm at now ... could change though.

Hey, don't bring common sense into this! I agree with just about all you say, for what it's worth. Maybe not the cult, but who knows. Much as I feel for Sally, I don't think some people involved in the podcast have her best interests at heart.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

They have lost creditability IMO not confirming in the Podcast or on their facebook page ( until asked directly), that the letter had NOT been accepted by him, and he was correct that he did not have the letter nor had read the letter. Instead they let their followers make comments that continue to vilify him in saying that he claims he cant speak English but also did not answer the questions in the letter that was in Luxembourgish … he didn't respond because he does not have the letter as he did not accept it, which is his right to do so !

They need to say they made a mistake in regards to having proof he accepted the letter, and their basic checks where not done before accusing him.

Not interested in following something that they are turning into a circus and leaving out facts just to get a rise out of people. Unfair on Sally as well, she deserves more than that.

Ahhhhhh that's why he was so insistent about if the letter had his signature. Thanks for getting clarification on that!

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I have to say I enjoyed hearing from Fernand himself in Episode 15 ... I quite like him and I get where he's coming from, quite entertaining, clever and interesting really. I mean, he must feel like he's been caught in the twilight zone or something if he knows nothing about Marion, it'd be enough to blow anyone's mind. Let's see, they came to his door and were filming and recording him. That's fine. He films them and he gets declared strange and suspicious. They have his address and come to his door, and film his home for the worldwide audience, even aerial view if you don't mind, and he decides to ask for their address and he's declared strange and odd again ... he's merely copying what's been done to him to demonstrate the absurdity of it all - I did like this line from him, "I don't know if in Australia people are not - not intelligent, or logical, I don't know."
I still wonder how in the world is he involved? If Home Affairs have footage of Marion returning, that'll seal it once and for all you would think. The money was withdrawn from here daily, Marion never left the country again, and no Remakel's have been here. How in the name of logic is it possible? I'm siding with the Luxembourg Remakels as innocent victims in this saga. My current thoughts are that Marion unfortunately got caught up with some kind of cult/group, and something has happened after that. Just where I'm at now ... could change though.

I liked Ferdinand too. He could have been a great asset (entertaining too!) to the podcast had they not chosen to cast him as the villian.

I'd like there to be more to it for her families sake but I think Marion (of her own free will) did exactly what she told police.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I find it soooo interesting that the president of the teachers union in Luxembourg is also a Remakel

Me too! There was another post awhile back about an author (about education) called Remakel.

Given Marion's love of teaching it could be a simple explanation for where she found the name/country.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Fernand then may have been a very well known sports figure especially to French speaking people,
Maybe it was not Fernand who placed the ad but someone who was using the name to attract the ladies, and it seems the ad didn't mention the first name so even if the real Remakel found out about it, the person could say the F stood for a different name.

Hope I haven't confused everyone.
Long story short we don't know who placed the ad.
And so far no lady has come forward and said they'd replied to it but maybe they haven't heard about the case.

Episode 15 ............... nooooooooo ..... as far as I can tell no-one knows who placed the Monsieur Remakel ad or what the F stands for ... could be Felix or Fritz for all we know, and yet .... yet in the phone call when speaking to Fernand (at 24.36) it is said "It's this advertisement, Le Courier Australien, 1994 Fernand Remakel wrote an advertisement looking" ... that's not right and not fair to Fernand ....
This situation with Fernand is beginning to remind me of Yossarian from Catch-22 ...

 

[KiwiNZ]

Fernand then may have been a very well known sports figure especially to French speaking people,
Maybe it was not Fernand who placed the ad but someone who was using the name to attract the ladies, and it seems the ad didn't mention the first name so even if the real Remakel found out about it, the person could say the F stood for a different name.

Hope I haven't confused everyone.
Long story short we don't know who placed the ad.
And so far no lady has come forward and said they'd replied to it but maybe they haven't heard about the case.

If they are looking for a defamation law suit they are going the right way about it. Mr R doesn't look to short of money to afford to sue them. I cant believe they think they have a right to harass or demand answers from someone who quite likely has nothing to do with the case.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I liked Ferdinand too. He could have been a great asset (entertaining too!) to the podcast had they not chosen to cast him as the villian.

I'd like there to be more to it for her families sake but I think Marion (of her own free will) did exactly what she told police.

I agree I think she left of her own free will. I liked to think I know my mother really well and know if she would or wouldn't do something, but if she changed her name by depol and didn't tell me, I would conclude I didn't know my mother at all and anything's possible.

 

[thunderwombat]

Me too! There was another post awhile back about an author (about education) called Remakel.

Given Marion's love of teaching it could be a simple explanation for where she found the name/country.

Yes, P Remakel president of the teacher's union and Michele Remakel director of a well respected high school in Lux. It may even be a tradition in the Remakel family to go into teaching. Mme Remakel (not sure if that is her married or maiden name) was appointed director in 1996. For a woman such as Marion who was so passionately interested in teaching, it's possible she could have come across the surname in a trade journal and it stuck in her mind. Florabella Remakel is not a name to choose at random and I don't think it's one she stuck with for long. For a woman who wants to make a major change in her life, what better way than remak(el)ing her self into a beautiful flower? Jenny Thompson or Susan Jackson are names to choose that no one would blink twice at but she chose a name designed to attract attention and seemingly never used it again.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I've sort of been expecting to hear something like this has happened.
It was the first thing I thought of when he asked for Sally's address.

If they are looking for a defamation law suit they are going the right way about it. Mr R doesn't look to short of money to afford to sue them. I cant believe they think they have a right to harass or demand answers from someone who quite likely has nothing to do with the case.

 

[K8g]

I have to say I enjoyed hearing from Fernand himself in Episode 15 ... I quite like him and I get where he's coming from, quite entertaining, clever and interesting really

Yes! I'm glad you mentioned this. I got the impression that he's switched on and quick-witted. I liked listening to him too.

I had a tiny little inkling (purely based on the conversation with him in Ep 15) that maybe he doesn't have any involvement and might be playing them a bit now.

The whole 'Remakel' link still confuses the bejeezus out of me, though!

 

[Garyb]

After a short time away from the sleuthing, I've listened to the latest episode...
It was a bit disappointing - I've always followed the Leveson case and it's great Sally has an ally that has been through the coroners court ect but I fail to understand why it had to be half of the podcast episode

I agree with most here, Mrs Remakel seemed genuinely upset. I do think they should have used a translator for that call - I know its great for us to hear everything but if its going to get in the way of respect, I would have been fine with not hearing the call recorded and maybe just seeing a transcript if that made him feel better. In saying that, I do think the ad could possibly be linked, but as someone else said, when something simple starts being questioned in relation to a missing persons case it could be a bit scary.

The same, I think, goes with Susie - she was more than happy to speak about what she could remember but as she said, she wouldnt feel very helpful speaking to Sally. This would have been a blip in her life, she's done really well even remembering what she already has! In relation to the sudden hang ups - I wonder if they have then seen how Mr Remakel has been treated and that has had something to do with the decision to just hang up?

I find it soooo interesting that the president of the teachers union in Luxembourg is also a Remakel!
New measures to tackle primary school teacher shortage
Ill be honest, I haven't done a lot of research on the Remakel name myself but I was under the impression that they couldn't find any other Remakel's in Luxembourg??!

Has anyone tried to do an ancestry search on the Remakel name?

I agree susy would have listened to how the Remakels and Lesley were treated and decided they wanted nothing to do with it.
Also I understand that the claim that their is only one F Ramakel in the world is not quiet correct. It is the only one on Facebook in Luxemburg.

 

[Garyb]

Agree on the mail - you get bank statements they could have tracked where the money went etc... out off all of the people involved I don't understand Lesley's reluctance to assist.

Was Lesley part of the podcast ? I thought I heard her been interview but I cant find it, assumed I was wrong

Wasn't in a later emisode that Lesley agreed to talk to Sally and they had lunch. Then they reported Lesley talking about puting her on the bus from the gold coast to brisbane airport with so much luggage she had touble getting it on the bus. Far more than could be carried on the plane.

 

[Meligator]

Imagine you are a retired Australian couple in your 70's and you get a news crew from Luxemburg turn up at your door. Speaking quickly in French. While you know a little french the accent and expressions are unfamiliar to you.
You have no idea what missing person they are talking about. However you suddenly are recieving letters and phone calls from fans of a podcast attacking you.

Then at 7am you get a phone call from an aggressive reporter who you have difficulty understanding from Luxemburg demanding you answer her questions, which you realise is being recorded.

How would you react????????

Any fan calling to attack them is certainly out of line. I don't know if that is happening or not. Aside from that, I guess I am just different minded. If someone showed up at my door with such an unusual coincidence, I would be quite curious. I might even ask them to turn off the camera's/mic while we chat, but I would be wholly intrigued to hear how they came to arrive at my door. I just don't understand what makes that so distressing.

I may be alone here, but I personally found the repeated request for Sally's address to be a rather intimidating/threatening request. He could have just said please never call here again and hung up the phone & he certainly has enough information to get in contact with Sally that was his intention. Targeting Sally makes no logical sense (she isn't responsible for the podcast), but she is a more vulnerable target.

 

[sunnynz]

Any fan calling to attack them is certainly out of line. I don't know if that is happening or not. Aside from that, I guess I am just different minded. If someone showed up at my door with such an unusual coincidence, I would be quite curious. I might even ask them to turn off the camera's/mic while we chat, but I would be wholly intrigued to hear how they came to arrive at my door. I just don't understand what makes that so distressing.

I may be alone here, but I personally found the repeated request for Sally's address to be a rather intimidating/threatening request. He could have just said please never call here again and hung up the phone & he certainly has enough information to get in contact with Sally that was his intention. Targeting Sally makes no logical sense (she isn't responsible for the podcast), but she is a more vulnerable target.

You’re not alone, I have the same idea. My gut feeling about him was not a positive one, I found him aggressive and unpleasant too. (I also found Alison aggressive and unpleasant!)

 

[KiwiNZ]

Any fan calling to attack them is certainly out of line. I don't know if that is happening or not. Aside from that, I guess I am just different minded. If someone showed up at my door with such an unusual coincidence, I would be quite curious. I might even ask them to turn off the camera's/mic while we chat, but I would be wholly intrigued to hear how they came to arrive at my door. I just don't understand what makes that so distressing.

I may be alone here, but I personally found the repeated request for Sally's address to be a rather intimidating/threatening request. He could have just said please never call here again and hung up the phone & he certainly has enough information to get in contact with Sally that was his intention. Targeting Sally makes no logical sense (she isn't responsible for the podcast), but she is a more vulnerable target.

I think I would react like you, but not everyone has a curious nature, some people are more suspesious than curious and you don’t know other people’s life experience which leads them to react the way they do.

I totally get Mr R, he’s males, he’s European and he’s of that age, and he quiet intelligent, he made it clear in the first meeting he didn’t want to be bothered, but they are persistent, and now he is playing games with them, he owes them nothing, he can act how he likes, he repeatedly asks for Sally s adress likely they repeatedly ask him questions, I don’t understand why people think he needs to answer to 7 news.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Just a thought but it has been mentioned many times that nobody by the name of Remakel came into or left Australia after 1990. So this must surely mean that in either 1990 or 89 someone of that name did either enter or leave Australia? Assuming they entered, this could be the Remakel that posted the ad in 1994. The website for the National Library of Australia states that they hold electoral rolls in microfiche format up to 2008. I am guessing this means electoral rolls are not exactly accessible to the general public online and it would be more a case of going in and making a request to view a particular document. They also say they hold many in print format, by year and subdivision. The library appears to be in Canberra, but the NSW library site was not as easy to find this info on! But, I am guessing they would also hold viewable electoral rolls for 1991-1994 NSW. The electoral roll for Queensland could be worth checking aswell. Maybe that would shed light on the exact Remakel who may have ENTERED the country in 1990 and be the Remakel who placed the ad? I am unsure about voting rights for new residents, if or for how long they have to be a citizen in order to vote- but like I say, these records go up to 2008 so if this Remakel has never left am guessing he would have voting rights? Am clueless to those laws in Australia.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Have replayed the Luxembourg video. Fernand answers their question at the door, and in the driveway later. At the door, Sarah translates "he says he's never been", to Australia, in answer to " ..... and I'm just wondering if you can tell me how long you were in Australia?" On second viewing of it, I must say if two people rocked up at my door and put their hands out for me to shake saying their name I would probably straight away think they were Jehovah's Witnesses, selling something or up to mischief. Just my thoughts though.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Any fan calling to attack them is certainly out of line. I don't know if that is happening or not. Aside from that, I guess I am just different minded. If someone showed up at my door with such an unusual coincidence, I would be quite curious. I might even ask them to turn off the camera's/mic while we chat, but I would be wholly intrigued to hear how they came to arrive at my door. I just don't understand what makes that so distressing.

I may be alone here, but I personally found the repeated request for Sally's address to be a rather intimidating/threatening request. He could have just said please never call here again and hung up the phone & he certainly has enough information to get in contact with Sally that was his intention. Targeting Sally makes no logical sense (she isn't responsible for the podcast), but she is a more vulnerable target.

Older people aren't generally curious, they're made very anxious by sales people, service providers, charities and other unknowns who knock at the door or cold-call.

Ferdinand requesting Sally's details is the equivalent of asking to speak to the manager. He isnt targeting Sally, he thinks Alison doesnt know what she is doing and he wants to deal with someone who does. He probably sees Sally as the lead person in this because it's her mother and all this is being done for her.

If they feel he has important information, the next step should be for Sally to write to him, apologise for getting off on the wrong foot and explain that what he sees as aggression is actually excitement/desperation to learn anything about her Mum and ask for his help. Extend the courtesy of getting his commitment to help before sending the questions.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Societal values/attitudes/beliefs in Luxembourg are different to Australia.

To be fair to Ferdinand he (like everyone else) is ethnocentric, he thinks the way things are done in his society are normal (and anything outside of this isnt). This is why he makes the comments about Australians being unintelligent - from his perspective Alison is either rude or clueless.
Alison is ethnocentric too. However, she is supposed to be a professional and she wants something from Ferdinand, so she should be approaching him in a culturally sensitive way to give herself the best possible chance of success.

Here are a few basic guidelines for business communication with the Luxembourgish found here. Business communication

• Luxembourgers prefer subtlety to directness.
• Luxembourgers do not put possessions or emotions on display.
• Communication should be logical and based on reason.
• Do not ask personal questions or intrude on privacy. Personal matters are rarely discussed with friends no matter how close.
• Luxemburgers are formal and reserved when dealing with outsiders. They are careful and prurient before trusting when developing relationships and this cannot be rushed. If you are impatient they will not do business with you.

It's easy to see from this how highly inappropriate and offensive the approach toward Ferdinand and his wife has been.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Just a thought but it has been mentioned many times that nobody by the name of Remakel came into or left Australia after 1990. So this must surely mean that in either 1990 or 89 someone of that name did either enter or leave Australia? Assuming they entered, this could be the Remakel that posted the ad in 1994. The website for the National Library of Australia states that they hold electoral rolls in microfiche format up to 2008. I am guessing this means electoral rolls are not exactly accessible to the general public online and it would be more a case of going in and making a request to view a particular document. They also say they hold many in print format, by year and subdivision. The library appears to be in Canberra, but the NSW library site was not as easy to find this info on! But, I am guessing they would also hold viewable electoral rolls for 1991-1994 NSW. The electoral roll for Queensland could be worth checking aswell. Maybe that would shed light on the exact Remakel who may have ENTERED the country in 1990 and be the Remakel who placed the ad? I am unsure about voting rights for new residents, if or for how long they have to be a citizen in order to vote- but like I say, these records go up to 2008 so if this Remakel has never left am guessing he would have voting rights? Am clueless to those laws in Australia.

From memory I believe the date range the police used in their search started at 1990. I dont think there is an actual record of someone called Remakel entering Australia in 1990, it's just that police havent searched any further back than 1990 if that makes sense?