Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Agree Mrs Remakel was very sincere and obviously effected by this whole event, Alison was unfairly intimidating. I think in the same situation I would be unwilling to cooperate with the same approch.

Me too!
It feels like such a wasted opportunity.
I dont think Ferdinand (or the Ad) are connected to Marion's disappearance but he could have been a great source of information about the Remakel name and about Luxembourg.

 

[sunnynz]

Agree Mrs Remakel was very sincere and obviously effected by this whole event, Alison was unfairly intimidating. I think in the same situation I would be unwilling to cooperate with the same approch.

See that’s so interesting because to me Mrs Remakel sounded like she was being a bit fake. I think we all bring our own perceptions of different behaviours to the table and interpret things in different ways.
Agree that Alison had a very aggressive approach.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I thought Alisons 'interviews' with Marie and Ferdinand were shameful. She gets an elderly lady out of bed, doesnt warn her that the conversation is being recorded and after the woman tells her of the distress the podcast attention has caused Alison tries to intimidate her with an aggressive interview.
"He's the only one we havent spoken to"
"It's like police - we have to chase down..."
"I'm sure you dont want us to knock on your door again"
"If you answer we wont bother you again"

I would agree here. When Alison mentions that it is "like the police", what occurred to me was, this man is probably thinking exactly that- then why is it this 7 News and NOT the police calling me? If the police were to ask for an interview, different story- who knows what they are doing , but if not answering the police, why should he answer them? There is definitely a lot of coincidences with Ferdnand and this man who placed the ad, but irrespective of that a lot of the barriers Alison and Brian come up against are to do with the inability to access information without police involvement, because what they are doing IS essentially what the job of the police is. As journalists they are owed nothing from the people they wish to speak to. My heart goes out to Sally as the legal wheels must feel so slow in turning and I would just be desperate to find out anything I could in the meantime in order to give to the police- but the people have to be willing. Asking once and if they want to talk and give helpful evidence is a bonus - if not, I think it should be accepted until the police can do it themselves- the Remakel matter is key- but nothing will come of it until the police themsleves approach him- which I believe they haven't so far? You can only take research without police involvement so far in a case like this- you rely on people's goodwill, time and paticence and I believe the more appealing can be done rather than directly approaching people of interest over and over would be helpful. If Ferdnand Remakel doesn't want to talk, maybe someone knows the Remakel who placed the ad. There is also a possibility the man who placed the ad is no longer even alive. I wonder why there has not been as much about the Medicare card. It was the only known action by Florabella after she returned to Australia. Apparently it was used ata surgery in Grafton Shopping World . What was the name of it? Does it still exist? If not could anyone give names of doctors who worked there at that time? Obviously there is a patient confidentiality issue - but that is where it definitely would require the police. I can only assume they are following that line of enquiry? Whoever held the Medicare card , visited a doctor at that surgery. Some doctor somewhere treated someone using Marion's card- do they remember anything about that patient? I guess that's what sticks with me- last known activity was at a doctor's surgery, was it actually Marion using the card? Was she very sick? Again- only the police can investigate that line- but I havent't heard it mentioned as one of the lines of the priority lines of enquiries Sally wants police to chase up. I may have missed something though?

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Hi sleuthers,

New poster/member here, but I've been following the podcast and this forum for a while. Finally signed up!

So, I was Google mapping Armidale trying to make sense of the crime stoppers tip and I got thinking about the Facebook 'tip'/message. Obviously, the message is worth taking with an oceans worth of salt despite that I was wondering about the name Clark Hunter. I'm presuming its made up, I know the Facebook account was deleted soon after. It doesn't seem like the most common of names. I wondered if there is a potential clue in any part of the name.

Unlikely but, once I'm on there I'm a bit of a map geek. So,I thought Id search Clark Street and Hunter Street.

As I expected they aren't the most common street names but there were a few in noteworthy areas such as Grafton and Lismore. Also there is a Clark Street in Biggera Water about a mile away from Hunter Avenue Labrador in the Gold Coast, close to where Marion was based before the UK trip.

The most interesting location I found was in Ballina. A Clark Street and Hunter Street a mile drive. Curiously maybe? Roughly 2.5 miles away from Anderson Street, which was where M. F Remakels ad P.O Box was registered to (if I've researched that right from early posts). Another curious thing, Clark Street seems to be abit of an Imdustrial/Business Park and has a Self Storage company on there. Hunter Street, is some sort of o.a.p independent living street.

I tried to find information beyond that but I'm not sure when the self storage unit opened, as the company seem to have more than one location. Rightly so probably,there is little information online about the o.a.p houses.

Again, probably big pinch of salt- but I did look up Hunter Street un Ballina- the nextr street up is Florence Price. Coincidence? Florence, Ballina? Florabella? May be too much clutching at straws but it did jump out at me.

 

[Meligator]

Agree Mrs Remakel was very sincere and obviously effected by this whole event, Alison was unfairly intimidating. I think in the same situation I would be unwilling to cooperate with the same approch.

I don't want to be too insensitive, but if the Remakels do not know Sally's last name then they can't possibly know much about the podcast at all. If they had read about it or spoken to anyone about it at all, Sally's last name would be known to them. Which makes their claims of significant distress somewhat confusing. By podcast team, Remakel's have been asked questions at their home on one occasion, received 2 letters and then a phone call. While they may find questions annoying, those contacts hardly seems traumatizing. And if it were traumatizing, wouldn't they have already researched the podcast to find out more about why they are being targeted? I know if a podcast team showed up at my door, I certainly would do a google search about they story. Their reaction seems disproportionate to the situation, in my opinion.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Let’s not confuse Monsieur Remakel’s ad with that being the way Marion potentially met him.

It’s a very good clue, BUT if a man was looking for a wife, for either romance or fraud purposes, no doubt he’d be using various means.

You have to be a pretty unmotivated to hope to find love (or victims) by placing just one ad in one foreign language paper.

Marion did speak some French but who knows if she ever read that paper?

If she did indeed meet Monsieur Remakel, it’s more likely it was at the arts centre (as she told Sally that’s where she met the mystery car man), or another place she frequented, like the dentist, doctor, school, etc.

Let’s not confuse Monsieur Remakel’s ad with that being the way Marion potentially met him.

I also think that the name Remakel and this mystery Macca man need to be looked at from different angles.

1. It is just possible since there is no Remakel entered or left Australia after 1990, that the man who placed the ad was a man who knows the REAL Remakel, used his name, based the ad on him and that Remakel is unbeknownst to him a victim himself of this crime.Yes he could have been 47 also- but he could also have been from any country which speaks French.

2. OR does that mean a Remakel did enter Australia in 199o and the advertiser has in fact given his real name? 1990 and 1994 are not so far apart that 4 years on, a man of that name could have settled in but still be struggling to find a relationship in a country he was not born in, so turn to a lonely hearts column.


3. There is also a high chance that if Marion was being cagey generally, when quizzed about the Macca man- he isn't neccessarily from the Arts Centre. He could have been one of the male parents Marion knew and was fond of.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I don't want to be too insensitive, but if the Remakels do not know Sally's last name then they can't possibly know much about the podcast at all. If they had read about it or spoken to anyone about it at all, Sally's last name would be known to them. Which makes their claims of significant distress somewhat confusing. By podcast team, Remakel's have been asked questions at their home on one occasion, received 2 letters and then a phone call. While they may find questions annoying, those contacts hardly seems traumatizing. And if it were traumatizing, wouldn't they have already researched the podcast to find out more about why they are being targeted? I know if a podcast team showed up at my door, I certainly would do a google search about they story. Their reaction seems disproportionate to the situation, in my opinion.

I

I know what you mean, but let's not forget they will be 70 odd now. Even at the time the ad was placed, a man of 47 may have found it hard to get up to speed with internet technology as it progressed over the next 22 years. Maybe in it's infancy. We can't assume that even every European country has same rate of home internet usage as our own country does. Many older people don't have home internet- and yes there is always family. But we don't know if they even have children/ grandchildren or younger people they could tell and would help them look into these sorts of things. Tbh, I would be quite surprised if this Remakel chap has the first idea about all the mentions of his name online in connection with this case.

 

[sunnynz]

I don't want to be too insensitive, but if the Remakels do not know Sally's last name then they can't possibly know much about the podcast at all. If they had read about it or spoken to anyone about it at all, Sally's last name would be known to them. Which makes their claims of significant distress somewhat confusing. By podcast team, Remakel's have been asked questions at their home on one occasion, received 2 letters and then a phone call. While they may find questions annoying, those contacts hardly seems traumatizing. And if it were traumatizing, wouldn't they have already researched the podcast to find out more about why they are being targeted? I know if a podcast team showed up at my door, I certainly would do a google search about they story. Their reaction seems disproportionate to the situation, in my opinion.

I completely agree.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I don't want to be too insensitive, but if the Remakels do not know Sally's last name then they can't possibly know much about the podcast at all. If they had read about it or spoken to anyone about it at all, Sally's last name would be known to them. Which makes their claims of significant distress somewhat confusing. By podcast team, Remakel's have been asked questions at their home on one occasion, received 2 letters and then a phone call. While they may find questions annoying, those contacts hardly seems traumatizing. And if it were traumatizing, wouldn't they have already researched the podcast to find out more about why they are being targeted? I know if a podcast team showed up at my door, I certainly would do a google search about they story. Their reaction seems disproportionate to the situation, in my opinion.

I beg to differ - a few quotes from Fernand's partner/Episode 15, all said in a despairing, exasperated tone ...

"What do you want, what do you want from us?"
"You don't know what you do to us, it's terrible."
"And also what you do to - to internet, that's - that's oohee" - (distressed/exasperated)
"That's not okay what you do, that's not good."
"But you - that's not okay what you do with us" ...

 

[Garyb]

Imagine you are a retired Australian couple in your 70's and you get a news crew from Luxemburg turn up at your door. Speaking quickly in French. While you know a little french the accent and expressions are unfamiliar to you.
You have no idea what missing person they are talking about. However you suddenly are recieving letters and phone calls from fans of a podcast attacking you.

Then at 7am you get a phone call from an aggressive reporter who you have difficulty understanding from Luxemburg demanding you answer her questions, which you realise is being recorded.

How would you react????????

 

[thunderwombat]

Imagine you are a retired Australian couple in your 70's and you get a news crew from Luxemburg turn up at your door. Speaking quickly in French. While you know a little french the accent and expressions are unfamiliar to you.
You have no idea what missing person they are talking about. However you suddenly are recieving letters and phone calls from fans of a podcast attacking you.

Then at 7am you get a phone call from an aggressive reporter who you have difficulty understanding from Luxemburg demanding you answer her questions, which you realise is being recorded.

How would you react????????

I would not react well. I made a comment yesterday on the facebook page (never again, I'm done with that dumpster fire) in reply to someone who said that M. Remakel of course spoke fluent English and was simply pretending not to understand. I wrote that when I and my family moved to Melbourne from Belgium when I was a teenager we all spoke English fluently, but often could not understand what the locals were saying. The accent, the nuance, the slang terms that you would assume are universal (for example the word "ad", short for advertisement), these take a long time to learn, you don't learn them from your English teacher, who has most probably never been to Australia. I somehow doubt M. & Mme Remakel have spent many cosy afternoons watching episodes of Home and Away on satellite TV to understand the local lingo. This comment didn't show up when I checked so I guess it has been removed, ah well. It's their page and they can do as they wish. A pity as I have many rellies (see how Aussie I am now!) in the Benelux countries who would have loved to help with research.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am surprised that so many people are surprised about the Remakel's reaction, not many people especially of "that age" would react that differently, sure Mr Ramakel is a little arrogant doesn't make him guilty of anything, unsurprisingly he is defensive, and his wife is confused and concerned.

So far they have had Lesley Loveday, The Cooper's and the Remakel's pretty much shut the door on them, not all 3 are directly involved in her disappearance, and all are of the same age, when do you think it might occur to them that it is their approach rather than the people having something to hide.

Also I question why they did not resolve the issue of Mr Remakel accepting their registered post in the pod cast. If they can not confirm if he signed for a letter in this day and age, when anyone of us can get a copy of a signature on that tracked delivery than they have no hope of solving a 22 year old mystery. Turns out they did check after the call and he did not accept the delivery, pretty disingenuous of them not to clear that up in the podcast instead they let Mr Remakel look like a liar, maybe they were embarrassed that they hadn't complete a basic check before spending half of the podcast telling him he did.

Also not even sure they understood enough to find the podcast or the case on the internet. Possible they have heard it or had it explained by someone younger.

not may 70 year old would know what a podcast is

 

[alleycat13]

After a short time away from the sleuthing, I've listened to the latest episode...
It was a bit disappointing - I've always followed the Leveson case and it's great Sally has an ally that has been through the coroners court ect but I fail to understand why it had to be half of the podcast episode

I agree with most here, Mrs Remakel seemed genuinely upset. I do think they should have used a translator for that call - I know its great for us to hear everything but if its going to get in the way of respect, I would have been fine with not hearing the call recorded and maybe just seeing a transcript if that made him feel better. In saying that, I do think the ad could possibly be linked, but as someone else said, when something simple starts being questioned in relation to a missing persons case it could be a bit scary.

The same, I think, goes with Susie - she was more than happy to speak about what she could remember but as she said, she wouldnt feel very helpful speaking to Sally. This would have been a blip in her life, she's done really well even remembering what she already has! In relation to the sudden hang ups - I wonder if they have then seen how Mr Remakel has been treated and that has had something to do with the decision to just hang up?

I find it soooo interesting that the president of the teachers union in Luxembourg is also a Remakel!
New measures to tackle primary school teacher shortage
Ill be honest, I haven't done a lot of research on the Remakel name myself but I was under the impression that they couldn't find any other Remakel's in Luxembourg??!

Has anyone tried to do an ancestry search on the Remakel name?

 

[alleycat13]

I am still stuck on the Armidale tip to be honest. I think after Sally realising that she hadn't made public the fact that Marion was missing before the tip came through is just too big.
The UK/Luxembourg connections are interesting and very odd but in my opinion, the actions in Australia seem more odd to me. The money being withdrawn, the use of the Medicare card in Grafton, the tip relating to Armidale, odd odd odd!!

I know this has already been covered but I don't like that it was just brushed over - Marions mail. Looks like Leslie was her forwarding address, there would have been a lot of mail I think. There wasn't anything online back then, people got quite a bit of mail, bank statements, info from her storage containers, registration for her car ect. Especially when Sally had deduced she must be missing in 1997, surely Leslie was informed of this - why was her mail not kept? Its very frustrating. If my friend went missing and I was receiving her mail, I would have kept every last letter!

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am still stuck on the Armidale tip to be honest. I think after Sally realising that she hadn't made public the fact that Marion was missing before the tip came through is just too big.
The UK/Luxembourg connections are interesting and very odd but in my opinion, the actions in Australia seem more odd to me. The money being withdrawn, the use of the Medicare card in Grafton, the tip relating to Armidale, odd odd odd!!

I know this has already been covered but I don't like that it was just brushed over - Marions mail. Looks like Leslie was her forwarding address, there would have been a lot of mail I think. There wasn't anything online back then, people got quite a bit of mail, bank statements, info from her storage containers, registration for her car ect. Especially when Sally had deduced she must be missing in 1997, surely Leslie was informed of this - why was her mail not kept? Its very frustrating. If my friend went missing and I was receiving her mail, I would have kept every last letter!

Agree on the mail - you get bank statements they could have tracked where the money went etc... out off all of the people involved I don't understand Lesley's reluctance to assist.

Was Lesley part of the podcast ? I thought I heard her been interview but I cant find it, assumed I was wrong

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Agree on the mail - you get bank statements they could have tracked where the money went etc... out off all of the people involved I don't understand Lesley's reluctance to assist.

Was Lesley part of the podcast ? I thought I heard her been interview but I cant find it, assumed I was wrong

Yes, they caught up with Lesley in Episode 14 - DNA - at 29.24. She sounds like a delightful lady. She passed on the mail to Sally. I found it interesting that Sally said there was mostly Medicare mail. Interesting. If Marion returned after only a month, that is if she got involved with some cult or something, the mail wouldn't have built up in such a short time and she could have had her mail redirected then. The Medicare mail is interesting though, why so much of that?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I have to say I enjoyed hearing from Fernand himself in Episode 15 ... I quite like him and I get where he's coming from, quite entertaining, clever and interesting really. I mean, he must feel like he's been caught in the twilight zone or something if he knows nothing about Marion, it'd be enough to blow anyone's mind. Let's see, they came to his door and were filming and recording him. That's fine. He films them and he gets declared strange and suspicious. They have his address and come to his door, and film his home for the worldwide audience, even aerial view if you don't mind, and he decides to ask for their address and he's declared strange and odd again ... he's merely copying what's been done to him to demonstrate the absurdity of it all - I did like this line from him, "I don't know if in Australia people are not - not intelligent, or logical, I don't know."
I still wonder how in the world is he involved? If Home Affairs have footage of Marion returning, that'll seal it once and for all you would think. The money was withdrawn from here daily, Marion never left the country again, and no Remakel's have been here. How in the name of logic is it possible? I'm siding with the Luxembourg Remakels as innocent victims in this saga. My current thoughts are that Marion unfortunately got caught up with some kind of cult/group, and something has happened after that. Just where I'm at now ... could change though.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm gobsmacked that they think 7am is an okay time to call anyone out of the blue and then even though she said it's so early, to then say they'll call again the next morning at the same time.

I thought Mrs Remakel at first said the time was 6am or did I hear incorrectly.

Also saying that "you put the ad in the french paper"
Do they know that for sure it was him?

They both had a lot more patience than I would have had.

I have no idea if Fernand had anything to do with anything or not so not taking sides here.

 

[KiwiNZ]

They have lost creditability IMO not confirming in the Podcast or on their facebook page ( until asked directly), that the letter had NOT been accepted by him, and he was correct that he did not have the letter nor had read the letter. Instead they let their followers make comments that continue to vilify him in saying that he claims he cant speak English but also did not answer the questions in the letter that was in Luxembourgish … he didn't respond because he does not have the letter as he did not accept it, which is his right to do so !

They need to say they made a mistake in regards to having proof he accepted the letter, and their basic checks where not done before accusing him.

Not interested in following something that they are turning into a circus and leaving out facts just to get a rise out of people. Unfair on Sally as well, she deserves more than that.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Yes, they caught up with Lesley in Episode 14 - DNA - at 29.24. She sounds like a delightful lady. She passed on the mail to Sally. I found it interesting that Sally said there was mostly Medicare mail. Interesting. If Marion returned after only a month, that is if she got involved with some cult or something, the mail wouldn't have built up in such a short time and she could have had her mail redirected then. The Medicare mail is interesting though, why so much of that?

Thank you

I will listen to it again, knew I had heard her just couldn't find it and thought I had dreamt it lol