Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #4

[sunnynz]

Part of me wonders, (I'm sure this has been discussed before, long before I joined the forum so apologies for any repeats), if Marion was being blackmailed.

It doesn't fit all elements of the case, I admit, but if she went to the UK to try to escape from a perceived threat, that might explain the name change, the secrecy, the weird meetings and the shadiness about her identity.

If, somehow, someone then got in touch with her in the UK, making clear to her that they would still release information about her regardless of her location, perhaps she flew back to Aus, withdrawing the money to pay off the blackmailer.

If it was information that she desperately didn't want anyone to know, she might have chosen to keep things secret from her family, getting herself into a deeper mess than she ever anticipated.
Again, just speculating, but if this was the case, I can see that this might somehow link to what was going on at TSS, hence the strange insistence in her postcards about the scales, to which she makes a comment that I have always found jarring that is something along the lines of "so he doesn't have more ammunition against me" (I think in ref. to Luke Glover (please correct me if I'm wrong.)

This, for me, is more plausible for many reasons than falling foul to a con-artist willing to travel back and forth to enact some EXTREMELY lengthy, risky, convoluted plan.

I have no idea what could lead to her being blackmailed, but people will go to great lengths to keep things from coming to light if they are ashamed of something, regardless of how monumental it seems to others. We know Marion cared deeply about her reputation, so this fits with some of the elements we understand about her character.

I'd love to hear what everyone else's thoughts are on this.

oooh this is interesting! I can see how this theory fits. I don’t really have anything valuable to add but I agree that it’s a possible angle.

 

[sunnynz]

Sorry double post

 

[KiwiNZ]

Can someone remember if was there something said about Marion's drivers license that they couldn't find a current one for her ?

she managed to rent a car in the UK ? and would possible have had to rent one on return to Aus ?

I am guessing she probably found been both Marion (drivers license, ID, credit cards ) and Florabella (passport) quite difficult to manage.

 

[Mjjj14]

Can someone remember if was there something said about Marion's drivers license that they couldn't find a current one for her ?

she managed to rent a car in the UK ? and would possible have had to rent one on return to Aus ?

I am guessing she probably found been both Marion (drivers license, ID, credit cards ) and Florabella (passport) quite difficult to manage.

Yes this was definitely said by the police officer interviewed after Graeme Child’s at the inquest. I wanted to go back and check this myself actually!

 

[brjakj]

Yes this was definitely said by the police officer interviewed after Graeme Child’s at the inquest. I wanted to go back and check this myself actually!

I believe they said her nsw licence showed as “surrendered - moved interstate” but they couldn’t find record in other states.

 

[poppypopcorn]

Even back in 1997, UK car hire companies were not going to rent cars to someone whose passport said Florabella and whose driving licence still said Marion, unless of course she had the Deed Poll with her to prove the change of name. It's like when you get married and there's that period where you have some documents in your maiden name, some in your married name, as long as you can back it up with the marriage certificate that's fine.

As for the "Dutch dentist" - assuming they were speaking English - if someone from the Netherlands, Dutch speaking Belgium, Luxembourg and possibly even Germany, German-speaking Switzerland or Denmark told me they were Dutch I'd probably believe them. Especially if you're not used to hearing English spoken as a second language by Europeans.

However, I suspect that the dentist and Mazz were just other B&B guests who Marion had chatted with over breakfast or something.

 

[Bibno]

deleted

 

[Bibno]

I can't explain why, it's more just a feeling and complete conjecture on my part, but I really felt when listening to the postcards read aloud on the podcast that Marion was alone on her travels, not with anyone else. It changed my whole perspective on the case, to be honest, not that I have any idea what I actually think happened.

I was similarly struck by hearing the postcards read on the podcast, and it really sounded to me as though Marion was in Kent, enjoying herself.

What I really cannot understand is why would Marion have gone back to Australia, secretly, just to empty her bank account?

I know there are restrictions about withdrawals on high interest bank accounts, but generally, if you really want to, you can get your money by paying a charge, losing some interest, or waiting for 30 days. I'm convinced that the cost of the airfare would have been greater than any financial penalty for making the withdrawal.

If she wanted all her money, she could have had it by closing the account and receiving it all at once, rather than skulking about getting $5,000 per day.

At the moment I'm finding it hard to believe that it was Marion who emptied her bank account.

If it weren't for the name change and other strange behaviour prior to her disappearance (ie. unexplained absences, meeting a strange man in a parking lot), I would be inclined to think that Marion really did go to England for a holiday and met with some kind of foul play when there, rather than having correspondence with someone ahead of time.

I've been thinking about this too, and perhaps it wasn't actually Marion who returned to Australia, but I really have no idea.

 

[Mjjj14]

Can someone remember if was there something said about Marion's drivers license that they couldn't find a current one for her ?

she managed to rent a car in the UK ? and would possible have had to rent one on return to Aus ?

I am guessing she probably found been both Marion (drivers license, ID, credit cards ) and Florabella (passport) quite difficult to manage.

Ok I just re-listened to that part. Officer Stephen McAlister says;

- NSW licence surrendered in 1994 when she moved to QLD
- in 2007 he did a name and licence check in QLD and found no records.

Could the no licence records in QLD be simply due to the passage of time and the fact that they went from paper records to digital records in the mid 90s? Im somewhat doubtful of this.

In NSW (and I would imagine in all states) you have a traffic record which shows when your licence was obtained and then any issues you’ve had since then such as speeding fines/court matters such as PCA offences etc. Im doubtful that you could have no record at all for a QLD licence. I can’t make sense of this, is it yet another error that’s been made in this case?

Was the name on her licence changed to Florabella Remakel and that’s why he didn’t find her when he searched in QLD in 2007?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Ok I just re-listened to that part. Officer Stephen McAlister says;

- NSW licence surrendered in 1994 when she moved to QLD
- in 2007 he did a name and licence check in QLD and found no records.

Could the no licence records in QLD be simply due to the passage of time and the fact that they went from paper records to digital records in the mid 90s? Im somewhat doubtful of this.

In NSW (and I would imagine in all states) you have a traffic record which shows when your licence was obtained and then any issues you’ve had since then such as speeding fines/court matters such as PCA offences etc. Im doubtful that you could have no record at all for a QLD licence. I can’t make sense of this, is it yet another error that’s been made in this case?

Was the name on her licence changed to Florabella Remakel and that’s why he didn’t find her when he searched in QLD in 2007?

Thanks for checking, I really think Marion would have a drivers license, doesn't strike me as the type to drive around without one. I assume something was missed ??

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Unless the hire car in the Uk was not driven by her, but someone she was travelling with.
But she did say she was being brave by hiring a car so it does sound like she was the one doing the driving.

Thanks for checking, I really think Marion would have a drivers license, doesn't strike me as the type to drive around without one. I assume something was missed ??

 

[Mjjj14]

Thanks for checking, I really think Marion would have a drivers license, doesn't strike me as the type to drive around without one. I assume something was missed ??

She had to have had one. It would make no sense otherwise. ESPECIALLY if she hired a car in the UK.

The only thing that makes sense is that there might’ve been some issue with the NSW police checking the QLD digital system or something. I reckon maybe she changed her name to florabella on her licence too if she was planning to hire a car, that way it would match her passport (which I’ve always been asked for along with my licence when hiring a car overseas). MOO all just speculation on my behalf.

 

[JLZ]

I was similarly struck by hearing the postcards read on the podcast, and it really sounded to me as though Marion was in Kent, enjoying herself.

What I really cannot understand is why would Marion have gone back to Australia, secretly, just to empty her bank account?

I know there are restrictions about withdrawals on high interest bank accounts, but generally, if you really want to, you can get your money by paying a charge, losing some interest, or waiting for 30 days. I'm convinced that the cost of the airfare would have been greater than any financial penalty for making the withdrawal.

If she wanted all her money, she could have had it by closing the account and receiving it all at once, rather than skulking about getting $5,000 per day.

At the moment I'm finding it hard to believe that it was Marion who emptied her bank account.



I've been thinking about this too, and perhaps it wasn't actually Marion who returned to Australia, but I really have no idea.

I've got $5000 a day restrictions on my account but I can change them any time subject to extra identity checks when I make the changes. I think $5000 was the standard amount the bank suggested and I did have to nominate some limit, but it could have been a lot higher. I'm suggesting that the $5000 limit might not have been a fixed feature of the type of account but specific to Marion's, and that she could have changed it if she'd wanted. If the person wasn't Marion, that would have been harder.

 

[vivienbee]

I've got $5000 a day restrictions on my account but I can change them any time subject to extra identity checks when I make the changes. I think $5000 was the standard amount the bank suggested and I did have to nominate some limit, but it could have been a lot higher. I'm suggesting that the $5000 limit might not have been a fixed feature of the type of account but specific to Marion's, and that she could have changed it if she'd wanted. If the person wasn't Marion, that would have been harder.

I agree, but by that same token, if it wasn't Marion who returned to drain her bank account, I have a hard time believing that an impostor would be secure enough in their assumed identity to try their luck with airport security, (which could have easily backfired and caused them to be deported/arrested, whatever the case may be), but not secure enough to go into the bank to withdraw the money.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I've got $5000 a day restrictions on my account but I can change them any time subject to extra identity checks when I make the changes. I think $5000 was the standard amount the bank suggested and I did have to nominate some limit, but it could have been a lot higher. I'm suggesting that the $5000 limit might not have been a fixed feature of the type of account but specific to Marion's, and that she could have changed it if she'd wanted. If the person wasn't Marion, that would have been harder.

Didn’t it say in the podcast recently (from inquest) that the bank person testified that Marion had a high interest account and was limited to only taking out $5k per day , I’m assuming without penalty to her already accrued interest she’d earnt.

 

[vivienbee]

Building on my previous comments, one of the reasons I find the international impostor theory so difficult to imagine is that there would have to be at least one woman involved, independently or working with a man, more likely, if we are going with the whole, "let's fly to England and get married, but also not get married because we can't legally do that within the time frame, so we will just do some sightseeing here together for no real reason other than to make your family believe that you are in England when we could have done that from Aus" scenario. (I'm not making fun of anyone who thinks this, by the way, I still don't rule it out completely.)

So the woman is either from the UK, from Aus, or from another country altogether. She has to be the one to travel back on Florabella's passport, regardless of whether the man accompanies her.
If she's from another country than the UK and enters using her own, real identity, the passport that she entered the UK with will register as never having left, meaning that her travel Visa will have expired at some point within the UK. This is insanely illegal, and could have led to a block being put on her passport. So she would have to be using another fake passport, or just not care.

Wherever she was travelling from, she would have Florabella's passport. Then, presuming that she wants to ever leave the country again, she would need her own passport. And then, she would also need to have Marion's documents with her to carry out the bank withdrawals.
None of this is impossible, but the STAKES involved in this would be HUGE. It's not technically a crime to carry identification for other people in your luggage, but if security had checked her bags there would have been A LOT of questions about having documents with three different names, all supposedly the same person. If they were professional criminals, which they would have to be to pull this off, I cannot see them taking such a huge risk when it would have been FAR easier to conduct the crime in Aus and just give the impression that Marion had left for England without her actually going.

I've explained this poorly, I think, but that's just my two cents.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I was similarly struck by hearing the postcards read on the podcast, and it really sounded to me as though Marion was in Kent, enjoying herself.

What I really cannot understand is why would Marion have gone back to Australia, secretly, just to empty her bank account?

I know there are restrictions about withdrawals on high interest bank accounts, but generally, if you really want to, you can get your money by paying a charge, losing some interest, or waiting for 30 days. I'm convinced that the cost of the airfare would have been greater than any financial penalty for making the withdrawal.

If she wanted all her money, she could have had it by closing the account and receiving it all at once, rather than skulking about getting $5,000 per day.

At the moment I'm finding it hard to believe that it was Marion who emptied her bank account.



I've been thinking about this too, and perhaps it wasn't actually Marion who returned to Australia, but I really have no idea.

It was on a recent podcast (from inquest) where bank person said at inquest Marion had her money in a high interest account and could only take a max $5k per day out without being penalized.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

This case truly is baffling. All the media attention that has come about and not one single person has come forward to say they saw Marion after she came back to Australia and took her money out. It really makes me think that she didn’t live for very long after she came back. I don’t think she she started a new life anywhere for very long.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

That was Trendwest Seriallyaddicted. Just googled "marion barter websleuths trendwest" and this page of the thread came up - click here, should take you to it. #866

Thankyou!

 

[Brissie Sleuth]

This case truly is baffling. All the media attention that has come about and not one single person has come forward to say they saw Marion after she came back to Australia and took her money out. It really makes me think that she didn’t live for very long after she came back. I don’t think she she started a new life anywhere for very long.

i agree the problem is theres no solid evidence (thats been released to the public that we know of ) so much missed ! and if she did come to meet foul play worst thing is if we can never give justice