Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[KiwiNZ]

Wikipedia says Marion's passport never left the country, so how was she travelling?

her passport never left the country (should be) ... again

She left on the Florabella Remakel passport and returned on the same passport, that passport never left Australia again.

 

[FOXINBOX]

Ah, that explains it, thank you.

 

[Meligator]

On the passenger card, she writes England to disembark & it's corrected in other handwriting to S. Korea. I would image England refers to the end of her current flight (Perhaps corrected to S. Korea b/c of layover involving leaving the airport/spending the night in a hotel?). Why would she put England on the card if she was planning to travel around the East?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

On the passenger card, she writes England to disembark & it's corrected in other handwriting to S. Korea. I would image England refers to the end of her current flight (Perhaps corrected to S. Korea b/c of layover involving leaving the airport/spending the night in a hotel?). Why would she put England on the card if she was planning to travel around the East?

Ah yes, good pick up, that sounds like the most likely scenario Meligator.

I also flew to London/Europe via Japan around that time. It was one of the cheapest ways to get there then. I stayed at the airport hotel overnight which was free and included dinner and breakfast. I did not go into Tokyo as there was not enough time but I really enjoyed my stay there. You could do this if your layover was less than 24 hours. I think the South Korea layover would have been just a few hours on the way. Perhaps Marion's travel agent suggested this route so she could take advantage of this offer and arrive before dinner time. You could then choose one of many capitals in Europe to end your journey. I chose Helsinki then Amsterdam. Marion could have chosen somewhere else in Europe then London. It would not have been a holiday in the East - just an economical way to get there with a free sleepover on the way so you felt more relaxed when you got to your final destination. I think Marion could have described it as "interesting" as she got a feel for the Japanese hospitality, culture and food at the airport hotel. I really felt spoiled by hotel staff.

Thanks for this firsthand bit of info Estelle, really interesting, h'mm, I reckon this is probably what Marion did too. MOO

 

[FOXINBOX]

her passport never left the country (should be) ... again

She left on the Florabella Remakel passport and returned on the same passport, that passport never left Australia again.

So Marion IS missing in Australia? I'm puzzled by all the discussion about her itinerary if she got back...

 

[Meligator]

Ah yes, good pick up, that sounds like the most likely scenario Meligator.

Thanks for this firsthand bit of info Estelle, really interesting, h'mm, I reckon this is probably what Marion did too. MOO

But that doesn’t help explain Tokyo. How did she end up in Tokyo if her flight was to England? Did she get to South Korea and then just decide to ditch her ticket to England and visit Tokyo instead?

 

[KiwiNZ]

On the passenger card, she writes England to disembark & it's corrected in other handwriting to S. Korea. I would image England refers to the end of her current flight (Perhaps corrected to S. Korea b/c of layover involving leaving the airport/spending the night in a hotel?). Why would she put England on the card if she was planning to travel around the East?

I agree - if you had in your head that your were taking time out in a country on your way to the final destination you would automatically write the country you are disembarking in / leaving the airport at.

I am kind of wondering if the Korea stop was just a transfer but the the flight had been diverted to Japan for some reason and the passengers accommodated in the airport hotel for the night and that was her reference to "interesting visits to the east". Japan is on the flight path and only 2-3 hrs from Korea, there may have been a weather warning that had them divert ?

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Just a link to throw Curiosity Cat to the pigeons. What if Marion went to Japan to get married???


Getting Married in Japan as a Foreigner | japanistry.com

Seems VERY easy and QUICK!! Much more so than in Australia or UK.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Unless it wasn't Marion that came back. And we go round in circles.

So Marion IS missing in Australia? I'm puzzled by all the discussion about her itinerary if she got back...

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Unless it wasn't Marion that came back. And we go round in circles.

Yes, true.
The more I think about it though, the Gold Coast area was absolutely seething with Japanese tourists and possibly businessmen etc during the 1990s. Maybe she met one of these?? Just a thought.

 

[FOXINBOX]

Unless it wasn't Marion that came back. And we go round in circles.

Even more so if she never went in the first place. Is that phone call absolutely and for definite from the UK? Verified proper records from the phone company? Because its the only thing that might prove she was here. Letters can be mailed by anybody. I knew someone who was supposed to be on a 6 month geological field trip to the Himalayas , and he pushed off to Wales with his girl friend, and left his mates to send the pre-written letters & cards to his parents and tutors. Just because they're the correct handwriting doesn't mean she posted them.
Sorry folks, I know, I have a very cynical Foxy mind, and I really ought to stay out of this.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I agree - if you had in your head that your were taking time out in a country on your way to the final destination you would automatically write the country you are disembarking in / leaving the airport at.

I am kind of wondering if the Korea stop was just a transfer but the the flight had been diverted to Japan for some reason and the passengers accommodated in the airport hotel for the night and that was her reference to "interesting visits to the east". Japan is on the flight path and only 2-3 hrs from Korea, there may have been a weather warning that had them divert ?

Perhaps it was something to do with typhoons/weather conditions at the time? This is interesting.
"The 1997 Pacific typhoon season was a record-breaking season featuring 11 tropical cyclones reaching super typhoon intensity, tying the record with 1965 with the most violent tropical cyclones globally. It has no official bounds; it ran year-round in 1997".
Typhoon Peter (Daling)
Typhoon (JMA)
Category 1 typhoon (SSHWS)

Duration June 22 – June 28
Peak intensity 120 km/h (75 mph) (10-min) 970 hPa (mbar)
From June 22–26, PAGASA tracked the storm, and named it Daling.[13]
Ahead of the storm, international and domestic flights were cancelled throughout Japan and ferry service was suspended. Heavy rains produced by the storm triggered landslides throughout Japan,[17] resulting in three fatalities.
And this is a bit more info on the weather events at the time.
Monthly Weather Review

 

[KiwiNZ]

Even more so if she never went in the first place. Is that phone call absolutely and for definite from the UK? Verified proper records from the phone company? Because its the only thing that might prove she was here. Letters can be mailed by anybody. I knew someone who was supposed to be on a 6 month geological field trip to the Himalayas , and he pushed off to Wales with his girl friend, and left his mates to send the pre-written letters & cards to his parents and tutors. Just because they're the correct handwriting doesn't mean she posted them.
Sorry folks, I know, I have a very cynical Foxy mind, and I really ought to stay out of this.

If your suggesting that Marion made the phone call from Aus and gave her passport to someone else to travel with, where does that take us ? sorry just trying get on your path of thinking ...

 

[KiwiNZ]

Perhaps it was something to do with typhoons/weather conditions at the time? This is interesting.
"The 1997 Pacific typhoon season was a record-breaking season featuring 11 tropical cyclones reaching super typhoon intensity, tying the record with 1965 with the most violent tropical cyclones globally. It has no official bounds; it ran year-round in 1997".
Typhoon Peter (Daling)
Typhoon (JMA)
Category 1 typhoon (SSHWS)

Duration June 22 – June 28
Peak intensity 120 km/h (75 mph) (10-min) 970 hPa (mbar)
From June 22–26, PAGASA tracked the storm, and named it Daling.[13]
Ahead of the storm, international and domestic flights were cancelled throughout Japan and ferry service was suspended. Heavy rains produced by the storm triggered landslides throughout Japan,[17] resulting in three fatalities.
And this is a bit more info on the weather events at the time.
Monthly Weather Review

excellent researching, Itsapuzzle - I wonder if we can find a weather warning for Korea that could possible explain a unplanned stop in Japan. This sort of stuff happens all the time so I feel like it's a plausible reason how she could have ended up in an airport hotel in Japan.

Flight path to show that the most logical place to divert a flight to Korea would be Japan.

 

[FOXINBOX]

If your suggesting that Marion made the phone call from Aus and gave her passport to someone else to travel with, where does that take us ? sorry just trying get on your path of thinking ...

I suppose I'm suggesting Marion could have been manipulated into giving up her identity. Passports are a premium item and it seems someone was bent on separating Marion from her family and her money - a new man, a new "friend" a cult-like organisation? Think of it as the 1990s version of the Facebook Romeo that doesn't exist, or the spam letters suggesting your cousin is stuck in Timbuktu and please send them your life savings. Unlikely as it seems, we know there are people who fall for it.
Like the magician's trick of fooling the eye into thinking the white rabbit's in the hat, when it's actually in his pocket.
Maybe everyone is looking in the wrong place.

 

[teaandtoast]

I’ve read through the past threads on Marion recently. I was new to this case and have well and truly gone down the rabbit hole.

I have one question so far; have any details been released about the paintings/antiques that belonged to Marion? I’d hoped I could do some searching down that route perhaps, but I didn’t know what I would actually be searching for.

Secondly, this probably isn’t important but thought I’d include it anyway. People were asking why Marion would rent a shipping container and not a storage unit (sorry I didn’t note usernames). Now I’m in Scotland so it could be very different in Australia… but I actually rent a shipping container as a storage unit. It is quite common here, I’m assuming because they can be stored and accessed outdoors. It was cheaper for me to rent a container than a more traditional storage unit.

JMO

 

[KiwiNZ]

I’ve read through the past threads on Marion recently. I was new to this case and have well and truly gone down the rabbit hole.

I have one question so far; have any details been released about the paintings/antiques that belonged to Marion? I’d hoped I could do some searching down that route perhaps, but I didn’t know what I would actually be searching for.

Secondly, this probably isn’t important but thought I’d include it anyway. People were asking why Marion would rent a shipping container and not a storage unit (sorry I didn’t note usernames). Now I’m in Scotland so it could be very different in Australia… but I actually rent a shipping container as a storage unit. It is quite common here, I’m assuming because they can be stored and accessed outdoors. It was cheaper for me to rent a container than a more traditional storage unit.

JMO

There is some reference to the paintings in the podcast - I think in episode 2 ? and other ones as well. I am in lockdown and plan to listen to it all again, so will post if I find the reference.

I think the paintings are a better lead than the "balloon lady" or the Daulton figurines which my parents went through the same faze of collecting them in the 80's thinking they would be worth something, they sold the balloon lady for $150 a few years ago, they are a dime a dozen and really worth very little.

oddly I have the same memory as Sally of it been a big deal the day we collect the Balloon Lady, I was guttered it wasn't actually a real women with balloons, my mother had talked this darn figurine up so much.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

A few years ago here, in Australia, there was some fad for buying shipping containers to convert into homes, mostly in rural areas.
Seems to have faded away. Maybe didn't get council approval. I think to keep a shipping container on your land for any length of time is frowned upon. I guess it's the neighbours complaining about it being unsightly.

If it was meant to go to the UK for Marion, she would have needed an address to go to, and then unpack it and get someone to take the empty shipping container away. A pity it's so long ago now.

 

[KiwiNZ]

They believe she used Kent containers

Storage Solutions - Kent Storage

 

[Curiosity Cat]

A few years ago here, in Australia, there was some fad for buying shipping containers to convert into homes, mostly in rural areas.
Seems to have faded away. Maybe didn't get council approval. I think to keep a shipping container on your land for any length of time is frowned upon. I guess it's the neighbours complaining about it being unsightly.

If it was meant to go to the UK for Marion, she would have needed an address to go to, and then unpack it and get someone to take the empty shipping container away. A pity it's so long ago now.