Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

New thoughts ..... what if Marion befriended someone in Britain and met with foul play there after she had revealed much about herself. They travelled on her passport to Australia and took her money and pretended to be her because they had all her papers, etc? They could then have settled in Australia or Tassie. Just another thought at this point. Wonder if DNA samples have been sent overseas .... heading off now to have a biscuit.

 

[Murkywaters]

New thoughts ..... what if Marion befriended someone in Britain and met with foul play there after she had revealed much about herself. They travelled on her passport to Australia and took her money and pretended to be her because they had all her papers, etc? They could then have settled in Australia or Tassie. Just another thought at this point. Wonder if DNA samples have been sent overseas .... heading off now to have a biscuit.

That's a possibility. There was a case in the United States. Marta Rodriguez who disappeared in 1989. Her remains were found in 1991 but never identified. The police closed the case in 2000 after ''locating'' her in Miami, the detective went to her home and interviewed her. But it wasn't actually Marta, it was her husband's ex-wife's sister. Jose Rodriguez-Cruz, Marta's husband, went on to marry another woman, Pamela Butler who disappeared in 2009. They only discovered the connection to Marta in 2017 and found out she was actually never located.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

That's a possibility. There was a case in the United States. Marta Rodriguez who disappeared in 1989. Her remains were found in 1991 but never identified. The police closed the case in 2000 after ''locating'' her in Miami, the detective went to her home and interviewed her. But it wasn't actually Marta, it was her husband's ex-wife's sister. Jose Rodriguez-Cruz, Marta's husband, went on to marry another woman, Pamela Butler who disappeared in 2009. They only discovered the connection to Marta in 2017 and found out she was actually never located.

Oooh, thanks Murkywaters, my goodness, will look that case up .... I must say the mind boggles at how horrid people can be!! That case sounds unbelievable, hey! Good police work to finally figure it out though. The only thing is if someone else travelled on Marion's passport here they couldn't go back to UK on their own passport could they because there'd be no arrival stamp for here .... need to think about it a bit more, h'mm, however, if they were already Australian citizen would it be do-able .... not sure, maybe if you didn't go overseas ever again. H'mm.

 

[StarrChance]

The name change by deed poll before she left Australia is the biggest clue as her wanting to disappear. The name is a bit eccentric and I believe she was described as that way at times. She also didn’t let her family or friend take her to the airport to be farewelled which is unusual when your going on a lengthy trip. The only two reasons i can think of is she was travelling with someone she didn’t want to reveal or she had tickets to travel on to a different country than she had told them.

 

[Me123]

Ive been listening to the podcast, I really hope Sally gets some closure soon it’s so sad that she’s had her whole adult
Life taken over by this mystery. I do feel like there is a massive cover up somewhere but I don’t know what the reason would be for the police covering it up.

I really want to know who the man in the car with Marion was when Sally seen her at McDonald’s, the way she threw Sally’s boyfriend out because it was a certain time makes me think that the man in the car she was seen with just after this had to be kept a secret at all costs. Maybe he had started a relationship with her and said it had to be secret because he was married or his kids wouldn’t approve of him dating (just pondering some thoughts) but really it was because his intention was to make her sell up, and eventually take all the money from her. He manipulated her into thinking they were off on a trip together for a year, romanticised him being kept a secret ect and Marion who had admitted she couldn’t be without a man agreed. I do think she intended to come back but I also think she was keeping a man a secret. Can’t explain the name change or why if it was her that travelled back to Australia why she wouldn’t go and see her kids. Maybe she travelled back because things went sour with the man in the UK and she needed some time to gather her thoughts before going to her kids but he had caught up with her by then and wanted his hands on her money illegally if she wasn’t going to share if the relationship was over. I can’t believe how seemingly uninterested a lot of her family are, the sister doesn’t speak too fondly of her memories with her. It’s all fishy.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Interesting to hear in the latest podcast episode 6 there is mention that they now have the class list ... I take that to mean the list of students in Marion's class where the father of one of the boys was a pilot. Maybe someone could put up a class photo for that year, may get a reply quickly from one of the students, just a thought. One good thing about an all boys class you don't have to go chasing up change of names by marriage. So if they track down the pilot and see a photo of him back then maybe he will match the man in the car, if not, may be able to shed some light on the matter.

 

[Me123]

Interesting. The school was suspicious too. I’m listening to episode 6 right now (paused to check this thread) so cant wait to catch up about the pilot. Sometimes I get the feeling Marion wasn’t the nicest person. Her daughter loved her ofcourse and is going to the ends of the earth to try and get to the bottom of where her mother is but the recounts from Sally and Owens dad was quite shocking, I felt like Marion’s sister was cold when talking about her maybe for a reason she didn’t feel the need to bring up on a podcast about her disappearance. Almost like she wasn’t she shocked she’d be capable of disappearing because she knew her to be ‘selfish’ like this, or something to that effect.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Interesting. The school was suspicious too. I’m listening to episode 6 right now (paused to check this thread) so cant wait to catch up about the pilot. Sometimes I get the feeling Marion wasn’t the nicest person. Her daughter loved her ofcourse and is going to the ends of the earth to try and get to the bottom of where her mother is but the recounts from Sally and Owens dad was quite shocking, I felt like Marion’s sister was cold when talking about her maybe for a reason she didn’t feel the need to bring up on a podcast about her disappearance. Almost like she wasn’t she shocked she’d be capable of disappearing because she knew her to be ‘selfish’ like this, or something to that effect.

Sounds like a lot of sinister things were going on in the background at this school. Where Marion taught was quite separate from the building where Mr Glover was, so I'm thinking she knew nothing about what was going on there, and if she did would have revealed it to authorities. Interesting that she asked to have her teacher's licence renewed before the holiday too, shows an intention to continue teaching. Also I don't think at the age of 51 you'd be interested in joining a sect or a commune, seems a bit far fetched, especially with her love of china and art, etc, no, I can't see that - a mud hut with a Boyd hanging on the wall, or a tin shed commune with decorative antiques around ... can't see it. And if she joined scientology or something they would have had her get that superannuation long ago .... and yet it's still sitting there. About Marion herself, there are a lot of contradictions .... one saying she wore her heart on her sleeve and you knew everything, and yet others saying she was very private and kept everything to herself. Also the story shared by her ex - it's just one memory from years of being together, not sure why he chose to share that one - I think we're all guilty of behaving like lunatics at some point, and unfortunately that snippet has ended up in a podcast for all to hear, so I'm not sure what to make of it really. He said she was violent, and the other husband said she was a very soft person. Lots of contradictions throughout. Looking forward to hearing about what the Salvation Army have retrieved from the storage. Spontaneous afterthought .... I wonder if Marion had a PO Box, safety deposit box .... wonder if a search has been done with Australia Post - the money could have been stashed there for safekeeping .... where did her mail go when she was on holidays? Did she go somewhere to get it? End of spontaneous thought.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Did they seem to be saying that the painting or paintings had vanished ?
From where, the storage? Or somewhere else?
It's hard to remember everything when you've just listened to 5 episodes one after the other.
Much easier when it's written down and you have that to refer to.

The thing about part of the name possibly meaning "Marion Remake" that someone posted. Could that be "Marion Remake 1" , the first remake to get her out of the county with maybe a second permanent remake planned under a different name.

She seemed to be acting like she was afraid of something, in my opinion.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

More mad thoughts are coming to me, or maybe not so mad, who knows ..... so now I'm thinking someone got Marion to change her name by deed poll, I can't figure out why at this point - maybe career wise, something, but that person could be the villain in the piece that needs to be found ... if someone helped her they would have had access to all her information and be able to pass a bank security check for identification, maybe over the phone, not sure, just a thought. Maybe their signature is on deed poll thingo as a witness. It's very weird for her to be saying that she was angry Sally hadn't put the money for the car in the bank. Sounds like something that this "other" person heard from Marion, about the sale ... why would she be angry, hardly any time had passed to sell it. If she needed more money there was the cash in the Barclay bank and that was untouched. Also she didn't mention it in the phone calls to Sally, only the scales, etc. I think someone else travelled on this passport .... at this stage.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Did they seem to be saying that the painting or paintings had vanished ?
From where, the storage? Or somewhere else?
It's hard to remember everything when you've just listened to 5 episodes one after the other.
Much easier when it's written down and you have that to refer to.

The thing about part of the name possibly meaning "Marion Remake" that someone posted. Could that be "Marion Remake 1" , the first remake to get her out of the county with maybe a second permanent remake planned under a different name.

She seemed to be acting like she was afraid of something, in my opinion.

That's quite possible TootsieFootsie. Am not sure where the paintings vanished from, the shipping crate maybe .... hopefully they'll let us know in some updates.

 

[Me123]

I’m sure I recall Sally saying they went in storage somewhere but she never needed to know where because this was her mums business to sort out after the year long trip. Just had a thought, wouldn’t the storage needed to be paid for - maybe it was paid for x amount of months/the year she planned on being away (if she did actually plan on being away that long) and then after that if it wasn’t paid for would the storage place own the stuff? For them to sell? If the antiques and paintings were valuable like Sally thought (I remember her saying there was an original of something but can’t remember what) could this be tracked to somewhere if enough of the right people heard about the podcast.

Does anybody else just get an off feeling about Marion when they see her image?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I’m sure I recall Sally saying they went in storage somewhere but she never needed to know where because this was her mums business to sort out after the year long trip. Just had a thought, wouldn’t the storage needed to be paid for - maybe it was paid for x amount of months/the year she planned on being away (if she did actually plan on being away that long) and then after that if it wasn’t paid for would the storage place own the stuff? For them to sell? If the antiques and paintings were valuable like Sally thought (I remember her saying there was an original of something but can’t remember what) could this be tracked to somewhere if enough of the right people heard about the podcast.

Does anybody else just get an off feeling about Marion when they see her image?

Yes Me123, if things in storage aren't collected they are usually disposed of, they give warning though, used to be in the newspaper I think. I wonder what mailing address Marion gave, there would have to have been one. Also where are all her personal papers and school documents, there could be plenty of clues among them, they must have been in the shipping crate too. I think Sally said she sold a lot of the antiques to a friend, her mum gave them to her, but that the paintings have disappeared with some other things. I wish the police would just hand over everything to them, it's not right that they have to go to court to fight for it, my opinion only, but really, they haven't solved it in 22 years, why not give someone else a shot at it. What do you mean about getting an "off feeling about Marion" when you see her image? Not sure what you mean. When I look at her photo I see someone who looks very peaceful and content, very youthful looking ... going by the photo if she was to run off and join a group, sect or something, I'd choose Amish, or some other group if there's any like that in Australia, peaceful content people, that's what I get from the pictures.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

We need the date the application for change of name went in. Once you have that date, you need to work around that time ... was she mixing with someone new then, who was around then ... is that when the British lady was around, the one Lesley mentioned? Maybe the villain was someone from the real estate agency .... so many suspects, but we need that deed poll application date. Does anyone know it?

 

[Pi Thoughts]

We need the date the application for change of name went in. Once you have that date, you need to work around that time ... was she mixing with someone new then, who was around then ... is that when the British lady was around, the one Lesley mentioned? Maybe the villain was someone from the real estate agency .... so many suspects, but we need that deed poll application date. Does anyone know it?

It would have been a lengthy process. I imagine she changed her name by deed poll first then used that document when changing her passport. So maybe a few months? Did she actually get married? Didn't she state she was a married housewife living in Luxembourg on her passport or other docs? So many tidbits of info, hopefully it will all fall into place for Sally.

 

[Me123]

Yes Me123, if things in storage aren't collected they are usually disposed of, they give warning though, used to be in the newspaper I think. I wonder what mailing address Marion gave, there would have to have been one. Also where are all her personal papers and school documents, there could be plenty of clues among them, they must have been in the shipping crate too. I think Sally said she sold a lot of the antiques to a friend, her mum gave them to her, but that the paintings have disappeared with some other things. I wish the police would just hand over everything to them, it's not right that they have to go to court to fight for it, my opinion only, but really, they haven't solved it in 22 years, why not give someone else a shot at it. What do you mean about getting an "off feeling about Marion" when you see her image? Not sure what you mean. When I look at her photo I see someone who looks very peaceful and content, very youthful looking ... going by the photo if she was to run off and join a group, sect or something, I'd choose Amish, or some other group if there's any like that in Australia, peaceful content people, that's what I get from the pictures.

I wonder if they could speak to the storage facility if it’s still going and see if anyone remembers a whole load of stuff that was never claimed. Unless it was claimed? And that’s why it wasn’t told to Sally where the stuff was stored. Because she was coming back for it.

I flip flop as to what I think could have happened a lot.

That’s great that you see her that way In Photos. I see more of a sadness but I’ve seen very few photos

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Hey M123, have a listen to the latest podcast episode, Bonus Conversations 2, the storage questions are answered among other things.
https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-lady-vanishes/id1457296528

 

[Me123]

Hey M123, have a listen to the latest podcast episode, Bonus Conversations 2, the storage questions are answered among other things.
‎The Lady Vanishes on Apple Podcasts

Thank you so much I’ll try to listen ASAP. I would have waited to check til Monday!

 

[Itsapuzzle]

More random thoughts .... so they need to check the passenger list for the two trips Marion was allegedly on. Do the police have that info and are keeping it to themselves? Not sure. Could there have been someone from TSS on it? Marion didn't want anyone to see her off at the airport ..... why .... who was she travelling with? Someone she didn't want anyone to know about? Or was she merely being seen off by a friend at the airport that she didn't want anyone to see. Very peculiar. They will need to also check who went on leave/holidays from TSS at the same time Marion left. Maybe there are old archived newsletters, etc, that have info in them about staff absences. Big job to go through every name on plane, but there could be a link somewhere. End of random thought.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Oooh, one more thing. The shipping crate, so it has never been found ... if you hire something aren't you supposed to give them an address and phone number? What address did Marion give, that is the question. Oh boy, the address could be the key ... so we must find the disposal notice that should have appeared in a newspaper, then the company and address would be noted ... but how to find ... old Qld papers, would be very time consuming.