Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

Ok, I've done some looking on 2 facebook groups associated with finding Marion. She left Australia through Brisbane with a stopover in Tokyo then onto London. She travelled alone and when she arrived headed to Tunbridge Wells on the Sussex Coast.

We can forget the visa on return, it was actually an incoming customs declaration that stated Florabella was married, living in Luxembourg and that she would be in Australia for 3 days.

My thoughts: I believe that she did leave Australia but now having some doubts it was Florabella/Marion who returned...why only 3 days? Or if she did return why not leave after the 3 days specified? Did she meet with foul play at this end before the money was taken from the bank? Her passport has not left the country and it has since expired. I think that she may have met or heard of the Lennox Head Remakel and that is where her idea for name change came from. Her superannuation has not been touched and also $20,000 in a UK account not touched.

Her anticipated year long trip was in fact only a bit over 1 month.

I started a timeline for Marion, feel free to add:

October 3rd 1945 date of birth

May 15th 1997 changed name by deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel

June 26th 1997 left Brisbane International for a year long trip to UK

July 15th 1997 date supposed to travel on Orient Express but decided not to

August 1st 1997 phone call to Sally - last time Sally spoke with her

August 2nd 1997 returned to Australia

October 18th 1997 Son Owen’s birthday but no call was made to him which alerted Sally

Great job Pi Thoughts, most excellent timeline and theory. Ah, so 15 May 97 changed name by deed poll, so the application must have been put in, in March, April '97? Whoa it would be great if they could get the application form, who witnessed it, and reason for name change, etc is probably documented. I do hope the podcast interviews an expert on deed polls, as it applied in NSW in 1997 - I really know nothing about the topic but am quite interested. PS: Am interested to know if the change of name by deed poll comes first, say 3 to six weeks, whatever it is, and then passport renewal is another 3 to 6 weeks on top of that, or all done together. Just curious. Cheers

 

[Me123]

Great job Pi Thoughts, most excellent timeline and theory. Ah, so 15 May 97 changed name by deed poll, so the application must have been put in, in March, April '97? Whoa it would be great if they could get the application form, who witnessed it, and reason for name change, etc is probably documented. I do hope the podcast interviews an expert on deed polls, as it applied in NSW in 1997 - I really know nothing about the topic but am quite interested. PS: Am interested to know if the change of name by deed poll comes first, say 3 to six weeks, whatever it is, and then passport renewal is another 3 to 6 weeks on top of that, or all done together. Just curious. Cheers

Not sure if it was the latest podcast I just listened to or another one but someone said that she will have changed her name first and then used that documentation to changed the passport.

The Facebook page messaged back, they’re already aware of the advert and are looking in to it. So either it means it’s nothing or it will be talked about in an upcoming Ep. Sigh. Got excited for a moment. Wonder when they became aware.

Edited to correct

 

[Me123]

Ok, I've done some looking on 2 facebook groups associated with finding Marion. She left Australia through Brisbane with a stopover in Tokyo then onto London. She travelled alone and when she arrived headed to Tunbridge Wells on the Sussex Coast.

We can forget the visa on return, it was actually an incoming customs declaration that stated Florabella was married, living in Luxembourg and that she would be in Australia for 3 days.

My thoughts: I believe that she did leave Australia but now having some doubts it was Florabella/Marion who returned...why only 3 days? Or if she did return why not leave after the 3 days specified? Did she meet with foul play at this end before the money was taken from the bank? Her passport has not left the country and it has since expired. I think that she may have met or heard of the Lennox Head Remakel and that is where her idea for name change came from. Her superannuation has not been touched and also $20,000 in a UK account not touched.

Her anticipated year long trip was in fact only a bit over 1 month.

I started a timeline for Marion, feel free to add:

October 3rd 1945 date of birth

May 15th 1997 changed name by deed poll to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel

June 26th 1997 left Brisbane International for a year long trip to UK

July 15th 1997 date supposed to travel on Orient Express but decided not to

August 1st 1997 phone call to Sally - last time Sally spoke with her

August 2nd 1997 returned to Australia

October 18th 1997 Son Owen’s birthday but no call was made to him which alerted Sally

This is great! Thanks!

Looking at all the info written next to one another helps put it in to context a lot easier. Looking at the date she last spoke to Sally and then the passport returning the next day I struggle to believe it was her travelling back. So was it the 1st of August for Sally when she rang Australia with a 9 hour ahead time difference. I just don’t believe that the next day (+9 hours) you could have travelled that far! She had many stops on the way to the uk so she probably had many stops on the way back too. It couldn’t have been her, or am I mad?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Not sure if it was the latest podcast I just listened to or another one but someone said that she will have changed her name first and then used that documentation to changed the passport.

The Facebook page messaged back, they’re already aware of the advert and are looking in to it. So either it means it’s nothing or it will be talked about in an upcoming Ep. Sigh. Got excited for a moment. Wonder when they became aware.

Edited to correct

Thanks for the update. I'm not in the Facebook group, so thanks so much for putting it out there Me123, otherwise I was going to email the info to them but they probably already knew about it. Back to the old drawing board .... the paintings, where are they and the newspapers .....

 

[Itsapuzzle]

This is great! Thanks!

Looking at all the info written next to one another helps put it in to context a lot easier. Looking at the date she last spoke to Sally and then the passport returning the next day I struggle to believe it was her travelling back. So was it the 1st of August for Sally when she rang Australia with a 9 hour ahead time difference. I just don’t believe that the next day (+9 hours) you could have travelled that far! She had many stops on the way to the uk so she probably had many stops on the way back too. It couldn’t have been her, or am I mad?

Yes, I agree Me123, doesn't seem possible, and I wonder if everything was slower in 1997, flights and getting through customs, etc - wouldn't have been quicker, hey?

 

[Pi Thoughts]

This is great! Thanks!

Looking at all the info written next to one another helps put it in to context a lot easier. Looking at the date she last spoke to Sally and then the passport returning the next day I struggle to believe it was her travelling back. So was it the 1st of August for Sally when she rang Australia with a 9 hour ahead time difference. I just don’t believe that the next day (+9 hours) you could have travelled that far! She had many stops on the way to the uk so she probably had many stops on the way back too. It couldn’t have been her, or am I mad?

I’ll go back through and see if I can glean any info on updates with the time frame of that last phone call. I do remember Sally saying she could hear her mum putting money into the phone and it would drop out so she’d ring back again. Maybe Florabella/Marion was calling midway back to Australia making out she was still in U.K. No phone ID back then.
I think there is a hope or moves afoot that signatures can be retrieved and checked on docs lodged for name change and or new passport.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if websleuthers contributed to an outcome?

 

[Me123]

Wouldn’t it be amazing if websleuthers contributed to an outcome?

Yes which I feel is possible when there are so Many unknowns in this case and it stretches across the world.

Good point! Marion may not necessarily have been exactly where she said she was so indeed could have been half way back to Australia when the last call occurred. Sally said there was a dialling tone in the call so it was def outside of Australia.
I always think but surely she wouldn’t outright lie to Sally but then she changed her name, possibly got married, had a mystery man in the car all while still in her daughters life so I suppose anything is possible.

 

[Me123]

Yes, I agree Me123, doesn't seem possible, and I wonder if everything was slower in 1997, flights and getting through customs, etc - wouldn't have been quicker, hey?

Yes I do think things would have been slower than now. But I don’t think there were as many people travelling then as there are now so maybe it would even it’s self out to taking the same amount of time. Another poster has just pointed out that Marion mightn’t necessarily have been in the uk when she’s nade that last call, she could still have been abroad to account for the different dialling tone but not literally the other side of the world.

Has anybody listened to the latest ep? The witness protection talk was interesting and didn’t rule out that she could be in it, but I’d be inclined to believe that scenario more if something would have happened to the disgusting abusers at the school. If there would have been say, arrests, a trial, she was on the stand to give evidence against an organisation/institution/School and then needed to be protected from revenge or from being silenced. It was all brushed under the carpet I take it? I’m from the uk so I have no knowledge of this TSS other than what I’ve listened to and read about but over here we do have our similar things such as Jimmy Savile, among others, so I can picture the brushing under the carpet and keeping it quiet at all costs.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Spontaneous baffle .... I just don't get it, why the police didn't know about the change of name by Deed Poll until 2011 ... is that right? Just something I've been wondering about, can anyone enlighten, have I got that wrong?
And yes, I agree, have listened to the latest episode, no, don't think witness protection either, otherwise there would have been arrests at TSS and everything back then, court cases, but there was nothing.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I’ll go back through and see if I can glean any info on updates with the time frame of that last phone call. I do remember Sally saying she could hear her mum putting money into the phone and it would drop out so she’d ring back again. Maybe Florabella/Marion was calling midway back to Australia making out she was still in U.K. No phone ID back then.
I think there is a hope or moves afoot that signatures can be retrieved and checked on docs lodged for name change and or new passport.
Wouldn’t it be amazing if websleuthers contributed to an outcome?

Yes Pi, maybe the call was made halfway back to Oz, is indeed possible .... oh boy, this case is so confusing, hey! The police have gone the way of good ol' William of Ockham ..... I'm not so sure that's always the answer ... or in this case. And yes, it would be great to contribute to the outcome, and I really hope it's a good outcome for everyone.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Guess what I found? A Fernand Remakel from Luxembourg date of birth 02/12/1947. That would fit in with the age of the Lennox Head Remakel. (Monsieur) M. F. Remarkel - I wonder if the same person?
Not sure where to go from here but I guess we keep following possibilities.
Last news Fernand Remakel (Union Luxembourg) | BeSoccer

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Guess what I found? A Fernand Remakel from Luxembourg date of birth 02/12/1947. That would fit in with the age of the Lennox Head Remakel. (Monsieur) M. F. Remarkel - I wonder if the same person?
Not sure where to go from here but I guess we keep following possibilities.
Last news Fernand Remakel (Union Luxembourg) | BeSoccer

Oooh, interesting - ah ha, I was thinking the M would be a first name, like Marcel, Mike or something .... yes, the M could be for Monsieur, Pi .... I must see if there's a bio somewhere, photos

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Guess what I found? A Fernand Remakel from Luxembourg date of birth 02/12/1947. That would fit in with the age of the Lennox Head Remakel. (Monsieur) M. F. Remarkel - I wonder if the same person?
Not sure where to go from here but I guess we keep following possibilities.
Last news Fernand Remakel (Union Luxembourg) | BeSoccer

Yes, Pi that M would be for Monsieur ... had a look at how to address an envelope to a Monsieur in France, hee, and it's M. Coincidentally this fellow was playing soccer at the same time as Johnny Warren, but I don't think they would have crossed paths. Interesting though.

 

[Me123]

Very interesting! I had a little look online but there isn’t much, I wonder where he ended up.. Australia?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Still thinking about this shipping crate ... does anyone know how long items in storage have to be before notice is put up in paper ... is there a set time? Also is there a particular newspaper that the notice would go in? Which paper for Gold Coast area, or would it be a National paper? End of spontaneous shipping crate questions.

 

[StarrChance]

Found a Fernand Remakel in images, is related to soccer, could be him, but not sure.
Oh can’t seem to link, but type in name and look under images.

 

[Me123]

Found a Fernand Remakel in images, is related to soccer, could be him, but not sure.
Oh can’t seem to link, but type in name and look under images.

I did this yesterday but all I could see was groups of men in football teams and in black and white so couldn’t pin point which exact man, I’ll have to try again! Didn’t Sally say that the man in the car at McDonald’s had dark skin?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I did this yesterday but all I could see was groups of men in football teams and in black and white so couldn’t pin point which exact man, I’ll have to try again! Didn’t Sally say that the man in the car at McDonald’s had dark skin?

Yes, dark skin. That advertisement also had the word "grand" which can mean tall in French. The mystery man in car was tall.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Found a Fernand Remakel in images, is related to soccer, could be him, but not sure.
Oh can’t seem to link, but type in name and look under images.

I will look again, couldn't find any photos or bio details. It is interesting that the name is F Remakel ... F for Florabella .... not saying that's his name, but interesting all the same, they would both be F Remakel ....

 

[Me123]

Yes, dark skin. That advertisement also had the word "grand" which can mean tall in French. The mystery man in car was tall.

Very good point!