Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

Instead of chest-beating at the police making demands for information he knows they cant have, I want to see Brian look into aspects of Marion's life the police haven't investigated which could provide new information.
Who was the guy in the car at Maccas? Marion said he was from the 'art centre'. Did Marion have membership? Did the centre have social get togethers/outings? Where there other patrons Marion was friendly with and are any of them tall dark males? Marions social circle was very small so how did she get involved at the art centre in the first place? Why haven't any of her friends, family, work colleagues been asked about it? Why haven't they discussed mail and the storage container with Lesley?

I want to see Alison step up too. She is a freedom of information expert and knows better than anyone why the police cant share the details of the dentist who witnessed Marion's passport photo. So why the sarcastic remark that "the police know who he is but wont tell us"?

Alison and Brian have a professional and social responsibility toward Sally's wellbeing. They should be helping Sally understand the limitations they face (privacy etc) and exploring the options they have, not encouraging her to be resentful by constantly focusing on what they cant have.

Ah yes Intriguedbyintrigue, and what if the guy in the car at Maccas looks like the dentist who signed the photo, wouldn’t that be something! H’mm. At this point the dentist is the only person to verify Marion as Florabella ... that we know of anyway

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Ah yes Intriguedbyintrigue, and what if the guy in the car at Maccas looks like the dentist who signed the photo, wouldn’t that be something! H’mm. At this point the dentist is the only person to verify Marion as Florabella ... that we know of anyway

That would be a very satisfying outcome!!

 

[K8g]

Just a quick question...
Can anyone remind me, are there any reports of anyone ever sighting Marion/Florabella overseas at all? Something/someone independent that actually confirms she was overseas, other than Marion's phone calls and postcards? (I mean during her 'holiday', not since she's been missing)

 

[StarrChance]

Just a quick question...
Can anyone remind me, are there any reports of anyone ever sighting Marion/Florabella overseas at all? Something/someone independent that actually confirms she was overseas, other than Marion's phone calls and postcards? (I mean during her 'holiday', not since she's been missing)

Great question!
I assume the postcards had English stamps, and she did also open a bank account there, hired a car. The podcast has gained publicity in Tunbridge Wells, you would think someone might remember the “Australian” lady.

 

[K8g]

Great question!
I assume the postcards had English stamps, and she did also open a bank account there, hired a car. The podcast has gained publicity in Tunbridge Wells, you would think someone might remember the “Australian” lady.

That's what's got me thinking. I may have missed something, but there's lots of indications of her being there (like those you've mentioned) but I can't recall mention of anyone specifically having a personal interaction with her overseas. Surely with all this media attention, somebody would remember her. I'm sure if I was chatting to someone from England on holidays (even 20+ years ago) then something like this investigation would trigger that memory.

If no-one has actually spoken to her/interacted with her overseas, I feel that's almost as significant as if they had.

The mind boggles...

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Check This Very Weird Find!
Was searching for info on Remakel in Luxembourg & found business permits for company named Fernand Nicolas Marie Ernest Remakel (image attached). Dates from 1975 & 1980, but the name is so eerily similar to the initials Marion chose. Could that possibly be just a coincidence? I think there has to be some connection.

H'mm, in Episode 14 at 35.05 it's stated that Fernand's name is Fernand Nicolas Marie Ernest Remakel - is that right? Marie, really! I mean, it looks like he named a company that, but is it really his name? Seems odd to have Marie thrown in there, hey? Found his birth announcement in Wort newspaper and it says Fernand Nicolas Remakel. Looks like his mum and dad's names are Ernest and Marie (Anne-Marie), so I'm thinking just the company was named as above and it's not his name. Happy to be proven wrong though, anyone got any proof? Cheers

Copied from Luxemburger Wort archives:
"M. et Mme Ernest REMAKEL-JUNGBLUT ont la grande joie d annoncer la naissance de leur fils Fernand Nicolas. Maison Fries, route de Neudorf 73, le 2 décembre 1947. 932"

 

[TootsieFootsie]

In France, the name Marie (the French Mary) is often used for men when attached to a male name, so we have Jean-Marie or Charles-Marie.


Usually hyphenated, I think.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder though, how many people would remember a stranger.

If no-one has actually spoken to her/interacted with her overseas, I feel that's almost as significant as if they had.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

In France, the name Marie (the French Mary) is often used for men when attached to a male name, so we have Jean-Marie or Charles-Marie.


Usually hyphenated, I think.

Ah, thanks TootsieFootsie, that's interesting, didn't know that.

 

[Atalanta]

I wonder if FR or another man swindled her out of her money and she was so heartbroken and embarrassed that she ended her own life. The voicemail from the German woman made me think this could be the case.

 

[sunnynz]

Finally listened to episode 14. Agree with others who’ve mentioned it’s a very good episode that provides clarity on a few things.

The most striking thing for me was when Brian listed off all of the ‘coincidences’ that link fernand Remakel to the case. It’s really quite amazing how many there are and particularly stemming from a preinternet age. If my Remakel didn’t know Marion personally then I would bet that an associate of his did. If it wasn’t him posting the ad etc then maybe a friend of his who decided to use his mates name in the ad to cover his own identity.

More and more I believe in the theory that Marion unwittingly developed a romantic relationship with a con artist type guy (Remakel himself or someone using his name), she was swept up enough to go off to rendezvous with him in Europe. She either met her demise over there and conman guy then withdrew her money with the assistance of a female associate posing as Marion. Or Marion was convinced in some way to come back to Aus to withdraw the moment for him, believing it was to start a new life with him. And then once he had the money she met with foul play. All of this is pure speculation on my part but based on the evidence it seems the most logical scenario IMO.

 

[Chapenroe]

I feel like the F. Remakel advertisement and associated phone number are a huge lead and I'm confident the authorities will look into it further now that they're investigating Marion's disappearance...but the pessimist in me is bracing for the fact that Telstra may not have retained records dating back to the early 1990s. I feel like we've encountered that issue a few times throughout this podcast: a company or agency no longer has records going back that far.

 

[Seabreeze1]

There was meant to be a conversations episode yesterday so I wonder if there has been a development?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Friday thought ..... been thinking about the ad, the Remakel and the Hermes ... so Gerald Attrill was a clinical psychologist, Mr Remakel studied psychology, could Attrill and Remakel have crossed paths at a conference or some such event overseas? Hypothetical - Attrill took an interest in his name, he told him how rare it is, and the name stuck in his mind. Attrill put the ad in or one of his followers using that name .... would that be possible ... some of his followers would have been desperate to get money to buy the magical stuff - ah well, just a thought. Actually I'm more interested in the dentist now.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

There was meant to be a conversations episode yesterday so I wonder if there has been a development?

Oooh, maybe Seabreeze1, hope so

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Last ramble then I cease and desist ... just going back to Meligator's brilliant find of the initials in the company name being eerily similar ... so if you chuck out the superfluous filler names Marie Ernest, which no-one uses anyway, they both become FNR .... so I googled "psychology "and "matching monikers" and it is recognised - a snippet here:
"Matching monikers prove magnetic. People are attracted to others with similar initials and name sounds, demonstrating a sort of implicit egotism."
H'mm, food for thought!

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

There was meant to be a conversations episode yesterday so I wonder if there has been a development?

Sally looks to have deleted the comment where she mentioned the conversations episode. I wonder what's going on???

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Finally listened to episode 14. Agree with others who’ve mentioned it’s a very good episode that provides clarity on a few things.

The most striking thing for me was when Brian listed off all of the ‘coincidences’ that link fernand Remakel to the case. It’s really quite amazing how many there are and particularly stemming from a preinternet age. If my Remakel didn’t know Marion personally then I would bet that an associate of his did. If it wasn’t him posting the ad etc then maybe a friend of his who decided to use his mates name in the ad to cover his own identity.

More and more I believe in the theory that Marion unwittingly developed a romantic relationship with a con artist type guy (Remakel himself or someone using his name), she was swept up enough to go off to rendezvous with him in Europe. She either met her demise over there and conman guy then withdrew her money with the assistance of a female associate posing as Marion. Or Marion was convinced in some way to come back to Aus to withdraw the moment for him, believing it was to start a new life with him. And then once he had the money she met with foul play. All of this is pure speculation on my part but based on the evidence it seems the most logical scenario IMO.

Agree sunnynz, the amount of coincidences is undeniably intriguing ..... the age, the name, the matching monikers, the Luxembourg link ... the tipoff that he speaks perfect English - h'mm, Lennox Head/Ballina extremely puzzling though, that's pretty weird ..... would be great if they could get him in the next episode, hey I've had suspicions about people involved in this saga, but once you hear them speak on the podcast it kind of clears everything up. A lot of coincidences, yes, but maybe that's all it is - time will tell, I guess.

 

[Meligator]

One thing I keep thinking about, but can't figure out, is what might be the benefit (to Marion and/or FR) to change her name to something that matches FR's initials/last name. If FR is involved in her disappearance, why would he want her to change her name to Remakel (thus potentially linking her to him)? Could the name change provide some direct benefit (i.e., possibly to pose as the owner of an account/record created as F. Remakel?). The coincidences are uncanny, but I just can't figure out what would be a good reason for selecting that name.

 

[sunnynz]

One thing I keep thinking about, but can't figure out, is what might be the benefit (to Marion and/or FR) to change her name to something that matches FR's initials/last name. If FR is involved in her disappearance, why would he want her to change her name to Remakel (thus potentially linking her to him)? Could the name change provide some direct benefit (i.e., possibly to pose as the owner of an account/record created as F. Remakel?). The coincidences are uncanny, but I just can't figure out what would be a good reason for selecting that name.

Very interesting point to ponder.

One scenario could have been that Marion’s love interest was posing as mr Remakel the whole time - through the personal ad and subsequent courtship of Marion. When Marion decided to leave with him/marry him/change her name he could have convinced her to have matching initials as a romantic gesture. When really he wanted her to have those initials so she could pose as the true f Remakel for some financial benefit. Was Fernand Remakel ever a victim of theft, fraud, etc around that time? The problem with this scenario is that it’s an extremely convoluted way to go about defrauding someone.

Another scenario is that Marion did just do it as a gesture of love/romance towards her love interest.

Or it could just be coincidence.

And of course she may have never even known an f Remakel.