Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

(Episode 14 at 36.30) - "We understand no-one with the name Remakel has entered or left Australia since 1990 besides Florabella" - how interesting is that! Completely interesting. H'mm, in that case Marion would have had to respond to that ad that appeared just the once on December 10 1997 in a French newspaper (can't possibly have been a chance encounter here) What are the odds? The only other possibility linking Mr F Remakel to this ad is an accomplice from Ballina who would take the calls and forward responses to Luxembourg .... oh boy, this is all getting a bit far fetched. I'm from Melbourne and I'd never heard of Lennox Head/Ballina before this podcast, had to look 'em up, so how someone from Luxembourg would choose these places has got me stumped ..... the FNR initials are strangely interesting though ..... h'mm, what a puzzle.

 

[StarrChance]

(Episode 14 at 36.30) - "We understand no-one with the name Remakel has entered or left Australia since 1990 besides Florabella" - how interesting is that! Completely interesting. H'mm, in that case Marion would have had to respond to that ad that appeared just the once on December 10 1997 in a French newspaper (can't possibly have been a chance encounter here) What are the odds? The only other possibility linking Mr F Remakel to this ad is an accomplice from Ballina who would take the calls and forward responses to Luxembourg .... oh boy, this is all getting a bit far fetched. I'm from Melbourne and I'd never heard of Lennox Head/Ballina before this podcast, had to look 'em up, so how someone from Luxembourg would choose these places has got me stumped ..... the FNR initials are strangely interesting though ..... h'mm, what a puzzle.

Good catch about no Remakel entering or leaving the country (aside from Marion) since 1990. Now I wonder who was here before then?
That ad was 1994. I can’t seem to tie an ad in Dec 1994 and Marion missing in 1997, two and a half years later. *If* someone was catfishing would they wait that long? Although very private surely she would have mentioned a mysterious “friend” from Luxembourg during all that time.

 

[Meligator]

(Episode 14 at 36.30) - "We understand no-one with the name Remakel has entered or left Australia since 1990 besides Florabella" - how interesting is that! Completely interesting. H'mm, in that case Marion would have had to respond to that ad that appeared just the once on December 10 1997 in a French newspaper (can't possibly have been a chance encounter here) What are the odds? The only other possibility linking Mr F Remakel to this ad is an accomplice from Ballina who would take the calls and forward responses to Luxembourg .... oh boy, this is all getting a bit far fetched. I'm from Melbourne and I'd never heard of Lennox Head/Ballina before this podcast, had to look 'em up, so how someone from Luxembourg would choose these places has got me stumped ..... the FNR initials are strangely interesting though ..... h'mm, what a puzzle.

Good catch although that doesn’t rule out them having connected via phone/letters at some point. Even if not directly related to her disappearance, a prior connection between the two might explain how Marion even learned of the name Remakel & its association with Luxembourg.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Whooops, I had "10 December 1997" in my previous post, I meant "10 December 1994".
This Monsieur Remakel ad mystery will all be cleared up once they reveal who the phone was registered to ... taking them a long time, I must say.

 

[madoodi]

Hi All

I have just recently completed listening to all podcasts. Such a baffling case!

My thoughts (for now as they change often in this case) are that in 1994 Marion responded to the ad in the paper. She may have then developed a 'pen pal' romance with mr Remakel. He then convinced her somehow to change her name, pack up her life etc and meet in England, then Luxembourg. She may have been embarrassed so did not tell anyone seeing as she may have been in love with someone she had never met. The change of name being for her to easily start her new life eventually in Luxembourg as his 'wife' .

Once over in UK just before meeting him she calls Sally saying she will not hear from her in a while. Then she meets with foul play and he has someone posing as her to come to Aus to drain her accounts etc.

JMOO

Of course I can think of a few other theories, but this name change is what baffles me.

 

[madoodi]

Something else I have been thinking is that, was her wallet not stolen at some stage? Can someone please enlighten me as to when that was?

Because then someone had access to her ID and other identification sources like Medicare etc.

On the other hand Marion's change of name in relation to her travel was very "last minute". And she subsequently appears to have only changed her passport, which would have also been done at last minute not anything else (I may be wrong here). And the fact that she did not tell anyone about it is very suspicious. Either she was coerced into doing so or she wanted to slip under the radar. Also she did not want to be dropped at the airport. Very strange especially if you will not see your loved ones for a while. This leads me more to believe her disappearance was intentional. Also with her last phone call to Sally, saying she will not be heard from in a while.
I wonder if she traveled to the UK with anyone. The passenger lists will be so helpful here.

Arrgh the more i write and think about it the more I get confused

All MOO

 

[Mel 1303]

Something else I have been thinking is that, was her wallet not stolen at some stage? Can someone please enlighten me as to when that was?

Because then someone had access to her ID and other identification sources like Medicare etc.

On the other hand Marion's change of name in relation to her travel was very "last minute". And she subsequently appears to have only changed her passport, which would have also been done at last minute not anything else (I may be wrong here). And the fact that she did not tell anyone about it is very suspicious. Either she was coerced into doing so or she wanted to slip under the radar. Also she did not want to be dropped at the airport. Very strange especially if you will not see your loved ones for a while. This leads me more to believe her disappearance was intentional. Also with her last phone call to Sally, saying she will not be heard from in a while.
I wonder if she traveled to the UK with anyone. The passenger lists will be so helpful here.

Arrgh the more i write and think about it the more I get confused

All MOO

Marion changed her name by deedpoll on May 15. She must have applied for a passport in the new name very soon after, in order to have the documentation in order before she left. I cant find an exact date for the wallet theft, other than a year before she went overseas- so before the name change. The dentist who witnessed the name change has been questioned by the police. To have only changed her name on her passport to me is very significant- she had a plan. She was living her life as Marion Barter, including her overseas bank accounts- but had the capacity to travel under a different name. The passport reenters the very day after she makes a call saying no one will hear from her for a while- setting up a timeframe where she could operate undisturbed. Sally said it sounded as though the call came from overseas- but that doesn't mean it was from England, where she claimed to be. It could easily have been from wherever the stop over was. She then takes the max amount of money out of her accounts- many people have asked why- I believe so she could fly under the radar as much as possible. All the talk of going on the Orient Express- then saying all of a sudden that she wasn't, as she wanted to spend time with the tea drinking old ladies. Really?
I don't understand the podcasts fixation with Byron. I know that is where most of the transactions occurred, but the bank id came from Ashmore- where she lived. Where the bank security officer potentially knew her prior to all of this. Where Marion is reported to have said she wanted to start a new life. Why aren't they focussing on tracking him down? The police haven't sighted her, the Salvos haven't sighted her- the one person who has sighted her in a professional capacity is the security officer at Ashmore, yet they are back to Byron. The message from the Salvos said "Tell Sally I am angry about the car". So who asked her the question? Was it by phone?
I have emailed le-courier Australien to request information on their distribution in 1994. Marion was already living in Queensland by then. The fact that no one with this Remakel name has entered or left the country, except for Marion, is interesting. So if it is F Remakel in Luxembourg, he either came into the country on false documents to take out a lonely hearts ad in his own name, or he placed it from overseas- again, using his own name. If he was looking for someone to con, would he use his own name? I wonder if the ad was placed by someone who didn't want to use their own name, so used their mothers maiden name, or neighbour from back homes name. There could well be a link to the ad, but I doubt the man in Luxembourg was the one who placed it.
The recent video of Marion is interesting. In absolutely no way am I passing any kind of judgement, but she seemed much heavier set than I imagined. It may have been her clothes- but in the pics we have seen she has such a slim face- I pictured her as a much more petite lady.
Way back in the Lori Ruff thread, there were references to books available in the 80s and 90s on changing your identity and starting a new life. I will dig back through the threads and see what I can find. It would be very interesting to see what techniques were advised.

 

[Mel 1303]

The security guard at Ashmore- either Marion told him all of this while she was there, before Sally knew she was back in the country, or the security guard was able to contact her after the police and salvos started looking. She said to tell Sally I am angry about the car, and tell them to stop looking in Byron, I am far far away. So- at the time, someone knew how to contact her. Knew to give her the info they were looking in Byron Bay. Or, for the sake of those who believe it was an imposter, someone knew how to contact whoever was pretending to be her. The phone number from an ad in Lennox Head three years prior is interesting, but no where near as interesting as that contact detail from the very beginning of the investigation. Forget Byron, I would be in Ashmore, trying to track down anyone who had anything to do with the Colonial State bank.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

The security guard at Ashmore- either Marion told him all of this while she was there, before Sally knew she was back in the country, or the security guard was able to contact her after the police and salvos started looking. She said to tell Sally I am angry about the car, and tell them to stop looking in Byron, I am far far away. So- at the time, someone knew how to contact her. Knew to give her the info they were looking in Byron Bay. Or, for the sake of those who believe it was an imposter, someone knew how to contact whoever was pretending to be her. The phone number from an ad in Lennox Head three years prior is interesting, but no where near as interesting as that contact detail from the very beginning of the investigation. Forget Byron, I would be in Ashmore, trying to track down anyone who had anything to do with the Colonial State bank.

Yes exactly! Makes complete sense to focus on the last known contact with Marion.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I can see Marion being drawn to a pen pal romance. It would allow her to romanticize without the realities of life interfering. Marion may have gone overseas to chase love but I think her actual disappearance was self planned and orchestrated.

I think it was the performance issues she was having at TSS and Sally's engagement which motivated Marion to do what she did. We know Sally's engagement party was 8/6 (3 weeks after Marion changed her name) but I wonder how long before that Sally first became engaged?

Sally's engagement party was the first time Sally Owen and their parents had been together since the divorce (when they were little kids). Marion also went to a lot of trouble (during the period she was having difficulties at TSS) to get special permission for Sally to marry in the TSS chapel. These actions seem like parting gestures- similar to the images portrayed in the postcards from the UK.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Marion changed her name by deedpoll on May 15. She must have applied for a passport in the new name very soon after, in order to have the documentation in order before she left. I cant find an exact date for the wallet theft, other than a year before she went overseas- so before the name change. The dentist who witnessed the name change has been questioned by the police. To have only changed her name on her passport to me is very significant- she had a plan. She was living her life as Marion Barter, including her overseas bank accounts- but had the capacity to travel under a different name. The passport reenters the very day after she makes a call saying no one will hear from her for a while- setting up a timeframe where she could operate undisturbed. Sally said it sounded as though the call came from overseas- but that doesn't mean it was from England, where she claimed to be. It could easily have been from wherever the stop over was. She then takes the max amount of money out of her accounts- many people have asked why- I believe so she could fly under the radar as much as possible. All the talk of going on the Orient Express- then saying all of a sudden that she wasn't, as she wanted to spend time with the tea drinking old ladies. Really?
I don't understand the podcasts fixation with Byron. I know that is where most of the transactions occurred, but the bank id came from Ashmore- where she lived. Where the bank security officer potentially knew her prior to all of this. Where Marion is reported to have said she wanted to start a new life. Why aren't they focussing on tracking him down? The police haven't sighted her, the Salvos haven't sighted her- the one person who has sighted her in a professional capacity is the security officer at Ashmore, yet they are back to Byron. The message from the Salvos said "Tell Sally I am angry about the car". So who asked her the question? Was it by phone?
I have emailed le-courier Australien to request information on their distribution in 1994. Marion was already living in Queensland by then. The fact that no one with this Remakel name has entered or left the country, except for Marion, is interesting. So if it is F Remakel in Luxembourg, he either came into the country on false documents to take out a lonely hearts ad in his own name, or he placed it from overseas- again, using his own name. If he was looking for someone to con, would he use his own name? I wonder if the ad was placed by someone who didn't want to use their own name, so used their mothers maiden name, or neighbour from back homes name. There could well be a link to the ad, but I doubt the man in Luxembourg was the one who placed it.
The recent video of Marion is interesting. In absolutely no way am I passing any kind of judgement, but she seemed much heavier set than I imagined. It may have been her clothes- but in the pics we have seen she has such a slim face- I pictured her as a much more petite lady.
Way back in the Lori Ruff thread, there were references to books available in the 80s and 90s on changing your identity and starting a new life. I will dig back through the threads and see what I can find. It would be very interesting to see what techniques were advised.

Mel1303 can you remember which episode they talk about the securities officer from Ashmore bank??
I want to go back and have another listen.

The securities officer would have been the person at the bank that handled the sale of Marion's house. The solicitor/conveyancer who assisted Marion with her sale would have the name/details of the securities officer because he/she would have been their contact at the bank regarding the sale (settlement, cheque preparation etc). From memory Sally has had contact from the solicitor and has all the land sale documents so this should be an easy lead to follow up.
I wonder why it hasnt been done?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

The last episode had a mysterious woman basically trashing Fernand's personality .... if he is found to have nothing whatsoever to do with the matter what are they going to do, give him a showbag and send him on his way? You can't just run roughshod over people without being accountable for your actions. They must have something they're not telling us, hey! End of spontaneous Wednesday afternoon thought.

 

[sunnynz]

The last episode had a mysterious woman basically trashing Fernand's personality .... if he is found to have nothing whatsoever to do with the matter what are they going to do, give him a showbag and send him on his way? You can't just run roughshod over people without being accountable for your actions. They must have something they're not telling us, hey! End of spontaneous Wednesday afternoon thought.

It’s definitely interesting the way they are very bold in the way they talk about him. I think it’s the nature of podcasts. It seems like there’s more freedom and leeway in what people openly talk about on a podcast than there would be in any other mainstream media. It’s like there’s still a bit less scrutiny? Just my observation.

I feel like they must have very strong suspicions- I mean they travelled all the way to Luxembourg. And then haven’t given up on him as a lead after meeting him in person

 

[Itsapuzzle]

It’s definitely interesting the way they are very bold in the way they talk about him. I think it’s the nature of podcasts. It seems like there’s more freedom and leeway in what people openly talk about on a podcast than there would be in any other mainstream media. It’s like there’s still a bit less scrutiny? Just my observation.

I feel like they must have very strong suspicions- I mean they travelled all the way to Luxembourg. And then haven’t given up on him as a lead after meeting him in person

Good post. Totally agree ... exactamundo, sunnynz

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

It’s definitely interesting the way they are very bold in the way they talk about him. I think it’s the nature of podcasts. It seems like there’s more freedom and leeway in what people openly talk about on a podcast than there would be in any other mainstream media. It’s like there’s still a bit less scrutiny? Just my observation.

I feel like they must have very strong suspicions- I mean they travelled all the way to Luxembourg. And then haven’t given up on him as a lead after meeting him in person

It's a great point you make about podcasts - they dont seem to be regulated like other media.

I think the Ferdinand thing is important to the producers because it's the only thing the podcast has found that hasnt already been investigated by the police. The Luxembourg visit appeared (to me) to be rushed into. I'm surprised channel 7 haven't faced legal action over what they have said/implied about Ferdinand.

 

[Meligator]

Mel1303 can you remember which episode they talk about the securities officer from Ashmore bank??
I want to go back and have another listen.

The securities officer would have been the person at the bank that handled the sale of Marion's house. The solicitor/conveyancer who assisted Marion with her sale would have the name/details of the securities officer because he/she would have been their contact at the bank regarding the sale (settlement, cheque preparation etc). From memory Sally has had contact from the solicitor and has all the land sale documents so this should be an easy lead to follow up.
I wonder why it hasnt been done?

The timeline in this article is interesting because it suggests Marion withdrew the remainder of her money & told the securities officer she was starting a new life on October 15–which is before Sally went to Byron Bay bank& reported her missing. That seems like an odd bit of information to spontaneously share with a banking officer, especially since there was no report yet of her being missing. Did Marion possibly have a personal/friendly relationship with the officer—someone she knew well enough to share personal information about her intentions?

I’m not sure if the police used this Oct 15 conversation as indication she was ok OR if the bank officer had subsequent contact (e.g., did he have a phone number for her).


https://www.google.com/amp/s/7news....-of-marion-barters-disappearance-c-200848.amp

 

[Meligator]

Something else I have been thinking is that, was her wallet not stolen at some stage? Can someone please enlighten me as to when that was?

Because then someone had access to her ID and other identification sources like Medicare etc.

On the other hand Marion's change of name in relation to her travel was very "last minute". And she subsequently appears to have only changed her passport, which would have also been done at last minute not anything else (I may be wrong here). And the fact that she did not tell anyone about it is very suspicious. Either she was coerced into doing so or she wanted to slip under the radar. Also she did not want to be dropped at the airport. Very strange especially if you will not see your loved ones for a while. This leads me more to believe her disappearance was intentional. Also with her last phone call to Sally, saying she will not be heard from in a while.
I wonder if she traveled to the UK with anyone. The passenger lists will be so helpful here.

Arrgh the more i write and think about it the more I get confused

All MOO

In this article it mentions the Waller being stolen by someone who looked “uncannily” like Marion & someone they haven’t been able to locate since—despite having been caught.

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

The timeline in this article is interesting because it suggests Marion withdrew the remainder of her money & told the securities officer she was starting a new life on October 15–which is before Sally went to Byron Bay bank& reported her missing. That seems like an odd bit of information to spontaneously share with a banking officer, especially since there was no report yet of her being missing. Did Marion possibly have a personal/friendly relationship with the officer—someone she knew well enough to share personal information about her intentions?

I’m not sure if the police used this Oct 15 conversation as indication she was ok OR if the bank officer had subsequent contact (e.g., did he have a phone number for her).


https://www.google.com/amp/s/7news....-of-marion-barters-disappearance-c-200848.amp

The securities officer would have know Marion situation from when she/he handled her house sale/ discharge of mortgage in April. The securities officer would have had many contacts with Marion during the sale/discharge process. As it was a straight sale (no linked purchase) the securities officer would have discussed with Marion what she was going to do with the residue funds from the sale. This is a cross-selling opportunity (sales targets!) but also part of the process to make sure Marion is aware of her options i.e at call investments vs longer term deposits options, referrals to the financial advisor etc. So the securities officer without a doubt would have known about her plans to go overseas.

The securities officer would also have served on counter (even if just queue breaking) so when Marion came back into the branch in October it would have been very natural to have asked how the holiday went. Also it was common to attempt to cross sell products (financial advisor, better interest rate products etc) to customers with larger balances - especially if the branch are short on their sales targets that month. Marion may also have been asked about her $5k cash withdrawals (offered safer alternatives to carrying all that cash). Any of these scenarios could have triggered the conversation with Marion where shes says she is starting afresh.
I dont think she necessarily had a personal relationship with someone at the bank but I do think this is what the police used as their proof of contact.

 

[madoodi]

In this article it mentions the Waller being stolen by someone who looked “uncannily” like Marion & someone they haven’t been able to locate since—despite having been caught.

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

That's interesting. So this woman resembled Marion. How bizarre...

I really wonder who the mystery man was who was with her at the servo.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

New conversations episode came out today.

The 'mystery' woman claiming to be an ex of Ferdinand is unverified and unidentified. They know nothing about this woman other than the message she sent. This is irresponsible. The way Ferninand is being portrayed I dont blame him for refusing to speak to them. They are casting him in a very sinister light for no substantiated reason. There is nothing to suggest Ferdinand has ever met Marion and he hasnt been to Australia (not since 1990 anyway).

Surely the man from the art centre who was physically seen with Marion and who she apparently tried to hide would be a better source of enquiry?? What about the securities officer at the bank who saw/spoke to Marion about starting a new life?? Or the bus driver to try and find out if Marion (and her luggage) actually went to the airport.

If an imposter returned to Australia pretending to be Marion why withdraw the money over 3 weeks? They could have taken the cash in a lump sum and left same/next day. Why go all the way to Australia for 80k when there was 20k of easier money sitting in Barclays? Why go to Australia at all - they could have had the funds transferred via the Barclays account. It would be easier to impersonate Marion in the UK where she is unknown than at her own branch in Australia where she is recognizable.