Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Rosewood]

In response to the above comment - I re listened to the podcasts again yesterday and one - I think episode 3 or 4? Was talking about her initial police report and it mentioned a number of transactions and $80000 wired overseas. It also mentioned a colonial bank in Ashmore? All very contradictory.

 

[TheOracle66]

It could also mean that they have a great lead and they need the NSW police to open the case and contact the police overseas to allow them to investigate.

I was wondering, is it possible marion is actually living with this guy. If she doesnt want to be found, then he will not reveal her presence. Also with technology is it possible Mr Remakel is following this story along with Marion AKA Florabella. Very intriguing. Surely Marion could let sally know she is alive and doesnt want to be contacted.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Welcome Intriguedbyintrigue, really enjoyed your post, so interesting. Just wondering would Marion have known all those things re banking, etc , I know I wouldn't have ..... maybe she was involved with (the mystery man) someone in a banking/financial business who advised her or took over her financial affairs for her? Just a thought.

Good thought Itsapuzzle. Marion could have been advised about Financial transaction reporting requirements when she made the $20K transfer to Barclays bank. I don't know much about the FTRA other than its purpose is to detect money laundering, tax evasion, and people using alias (which is why it came to mind). The threshold transaction amount is $10k, which is why I thought Marion may have been trying to avoid FTRA reporting by using $5K cash increments in an attempt to protect her alias so she could keep both identities. I think if you were seriously considering changing your legal name and disappearing you would have think through your major financial assets, house, bank and super. Super in particular is a bit of a mystery to most people (including me!) but when Marion got the TSS job she would have had to update her super details (or roll into a new fund) and this would have resulted in her receiving a letter with her details and an updated PDS which would have given her the information she needed about preservation age and accumulation verses pension style accounts. Yes perhaps the mystery man (possible husband) assisted her with this, it does feel in keeping with Marion's romantic nature.

 

[Shany]

I don't think the police have failed. Marion changed her name, travelled with that name, even sold her house at a loss, the list goes on. She wanted to leave her old life behind. I certainly don't agree with what she did but I think she did a lot of planning. She carried on as normal so no one would suspect and probably had the date for her disappearance planned to a t.

The New South Wales police ADMIT that Marion has not been sighted, and yet they took her off the missing person's list.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Rosewood I’m not sure about death changing things. It was discussed in the latest conversation episode that Change of name documentation has a 99-year protection (alive or not).
You're absolutely right. It is in no way unreasonable for Sally to want to unequivocally know her mother disappeared of her own volition. I’m sorry if it appears I’m saying otherwise. I would do exactly as Sally has and I want her to find her Mum too. The point I’m making is about poor journalism. The podcast continuously criticizes the police investigation but fails to acknowledge their differing purposes. The police enquiry was purely to determine if Marion chose to go missing not why. Marion’s family received this advice from police in 1997. Any journalist knows the privacy act restrictions on disclosure of information. The same legislation preventing Sally accessing data about her Mum protects against stalkers, abusers, estranged family and other nasties. When Sally visited the CBA with photos of her Mum, they couldn’t even confirm Marion was a customer (even though Sally knew she was). Frustrating for Sally but the detail is informative. Imagine if Marion were being hunted by some-one she owed money to, would we want the bank to tell them that yes she is a customer and comes in on Tuesdays? Sally obviously has only good intentions toward her Mum but police, financial institutions, govt agencies etc are not permitted to make that evaluation or to determine what is informative. It doesn’t mean they haven’t done their job; it means they can’t share what they know.
I would like to see the podcast focus less on sensationalism and more on practical things like what happened to the storage container? Could they do a check of auction houses and collection agencies that storage companies at the time may have used for unpaid/uncollected items. They may have records. The storage invoices/receipts must have been sent somewhere. Did Marion have a mail re-direction while overseas or PO Boxes in either name?

 

[TheOracle66]

The New South Wales police ADMIT that Marion has not been sighted, and yet they took her off the missing person's list.

Her movements and actions leading up to her disappearance plus I think they have other evidence but due to marions privacy, police cannot release it.

 

[TheOracle66]

Rosewood I’m not sure about death changing things. It was discussed in the latest conversation episode that Change of name documentation has a 99-year protection (alive or not).
You're absolutely right. It is in no way unreasonable for Sally to want to unequivocally know her mother disappeared of her own volition. I’m sorry if it appears I’m saying otherwise. I would do exactly as Sally has and I want her to find her Mum too. The point I’m making is about poor journalism. The podcast continuously criticizes the police investigation but fails to acknowledge their differing purposes. The police enquiry was purely to determine if Marion chose to go missing not why. Marion’s family received this advice from police in 1997. Any journalist knows the privacy act restrictions on disclosure of information. The same legislation preventing Sally accessing data about her Mum protects against stalkers, abusers, estranged family and other nasties. When Sally visited the CBA with photos of her Mum, they couldn’t even confirm Marion was a customer (even though Sally knew she was). Frustrating for Sally but the detail is informative. Imagine if Marion were being hunted by some-one she owed money to, would we want the bank to tell them that yes she is a customer and comes in on Tuesdays? Sally obviously has only good intentions toward her Mum but police, financial institutions, govt agencies etc are not permitted to make that evaluation or to determine what is informative. It doesn’t mean they haven’t done their job; it means they can’t share what they know.
I would like to see the podcast focus less on sensationalism and more on practical things like what happened to the storage container? Could they do a check of auction houses and collection agencies that storage companies at the time may have used for unpaid/uncollected items. They may have records. The storage invoices/receipts must have been sent somewhere. Did Marion have a mail re-direction while overseas or PO Boxes in either name?

I agree my criticism of the podcast is that they keep saying marion was taken off the missing persons list due to the police believing she took deliberate steps to enstrange herself from family and go missing and the evidence is based on "assumption". The whole podcast is based on the reporters and sally's own assumptions about marion, who was planning her new identity and new life and going along her merry way pretending nothing was about to change. Let's face it someone who changes their name secretly by deed poll to some ridiculous name has got their own agenda.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I was wondering, is it possible marion is actually living with this guy. If she doesnt want to be found, then he will not reveal her presence. Also with technology is it possible Mr Remakel is following this story along with Marion AKA Florabella. Very intriguing. Surely Marion could let sally know she is alive and doesnt want to be contacted.

Ive wondered about this too, whether Marion is following the story. I wondered initially if maybe Marion didn't tell Mr Ramakel about her children and this was what was preventing her from contacting over the years. Although that does seems unlikely, especially given her mature age. I also wondered if the publicity around the story is preventing her from making contact now (even via a third party). You'd think it would be relatively simple for her to contact police and authorise them to tell Sally she is ok but doesn't want contact.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I agree my criticism of the podcast is that they keep saying marion was taken off the missing persons list due to the police believing she took deliberate steps to enstrange herself from family and go missing and the evidence is based on "assumption". The whole podcast is based on the reporters and sally's own assumptions about marion, who was planning her new identity and new life and going along her merry way pretending nothing was about to change. Let's face it someone who changes their name secretly by deed poll to some ridiculous name has got their own agenda.

Yes. I can understand a daughter not willing to accept her mother wanting no contact with her, but that doesn't make what you have been told wrong. The friend who took Marion to the airport and Marion's siblings assisted police but do not want to be involved with the podcast which in itself shows its perspective is skewed.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Does anyone use ancestry.com, or able to work out who the Marie-Anne/Marianne Schlesser-Remakel is? My interest has been piqued due to the "stateless" component, why a citizen of nowhere? - Hey, could be fake birthdate too to throw us off. Okay, so what if Marion met up with Monsieur Remakel but ended up with Mr Schlesser - is that possible? I reference Humphrey Bogart/William Holden (Sabrina) - we simply must find out who she is .... then I will stop obsessing and find something else to obsess over.
A previous post mentioned she may have passed away too - Post #117

 

[Joni C]

Does anyone use ancestry.com, or able to work out who the Marie-Anne/Marianne Schlesser-Remakel is? My interest has been piqued due to the "stateless" component, why a citizen of nowhere? - Hey, could be fake birthdate too to throw us off. Okay, so what if Marion met up with Monsieur Remakel but ended up with Mr Schlesser - is that possible? I reference Humphrey Bogart/William Holden (Sabrina) - we simply must find out who she is .... then I will stop obsessing and find something else to obsess over.
A previous post mentioned she may have passed away too - Post #117

Hi ! My first post so please be gentle From my research M.S is F.R sister, married to C.S

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Hi ! My first post so please be gentle From my research M.S is F.R sister, married to C.S

Welcome Joni, thank you so much for answering ..... ah, so she's his sister .... oh boy, I was way off there!! My suspicious mind was working overtime, hee hee - any chance you can put the info up here that you've got, would really appreciate it Oooh, and also do you have any idea why she is represented as "stateless" and why her name appears differently at times, Marie-Anne and Marianne .... and why Carlo Schlesser has added her name to his ... it's all so peculiar, do you think? I just get so darn curious ..... Cheers

 

[Rosewood]

Some clever soul has figured out the money sent to the Barclays Bank in the Uk was sent back to Australia in 2004 as unclaimed funds. 7 years after it was untouched.
To me this does indicate she is most likely dead.

 

[Joni C]

Welcome Joni, thank you so much for answering ..... ah, so she's his sister .... oh boy, I was way off there!! My suspicious mind was working overtime, hee hee - any chance you can put the info up here that you've got, would really appreciate it Oooh, and also do you have any idea why she is represented as "stateless" and why her name appears differently at times, Marie-Anne and Marianne .... and why Carlo Schlesser has added her name to his ... it's all so peculiar, do you think? I just get so darn curious ..... Cheers

Thank you ! Yes, it is meaning "without occupation" in this context , my eyes popped out when I saw this the first time as well !

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Thank you ! Yes, it is meaning "without occupation" in this context , my eyes popped out when I saw this the first time as well !

Completely brilliant! Thanks Joni ..... I see, so translating the two words separately you get the "without" "occupation" rather than the two words together "stateless" .... odd, isn't it ..... okay, so I'm putting that theory to rest, definitely not Marion then, ah well, had to find out ..... much appreciated Hey, this Google Chrome is fantastic, everything translates in a second, so good, just figured that out too, was using the old thingo that did nothing really, was sooooo slow spinning around like a ferris wheel forever till you just have to give up ......

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Spontaneous random ..... if there is a coronial inquest then Lesley can be subpoenaed to answer questions in cross-examination, so may get some answers then. Such a shame she turned hostile .... sometimes a tin of bickies and some flowers can do wonders, but may be beyond that here.

 

[Brejay53]

Spontaneous random ..... if there is a coronial inquest then Lesley can be subpoenaed to answer questions in cross-examination, so may get some answers then. Such a shame she turned hostile .... sometimes a tin of bickies and some flowers can do wonders, but may be beyond that here.

Why is she so hostile though? Only thing I can think of is she knows more than she is letting on.. maybe she knows where Marion is, who she’s with.. maybe she knew where the storage unit was because all Mail was directed to her house.
If your best friend was missing and harm could of come to her wouldn’t you go out of your way to find answers. I know I would..

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Supplementary spontaneous random ... am so curious as to what Mr Remakel's job was in '94/95 etc .... could he have been here to install/teach new banking systems or something .... maybe that's where his skills lie, he can't sit around inventing all day, hey .... or perhaps foreign exchange at the bank .... now, now stop speculating Itsapuzzle, settle down ..... must wait for Episode 11 to land ..... at one minute past midnight I shall begin download

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Why is she so hostile though? Only thing I can think of is she knows more than she is letting on.. maybe she knows where Marion is, who she’s with.. maybe she knew where the storage unit was because all Mail was directed to her house.
If your best friend was missing and harm could of come to her wouldn’t you go out of your way to find answers. I know I would..

I agree. I also think Lesley is the most likely candidate to have managed mail and the storage unit for Marion.
Lesley assisted police so she isnt obstructive. It suggests to me that either Marion asked her not to talk with Sally about what she knows, or she has told Sally everything she knows and is sick of being hounded about it.
If Lesley does know what happened to Marion and has just been keeping it quiet, she must also know that Marion is at no risk of harm. Gee she must be a very good friend to have kept Marion's secret for so long!
I think the hostility comes from the medias involvement. Lesley being advanced in age probably doesnt want to get caught up in the media attention and all the public opinion. It could actually be quite frightening for her.

 

[Mel 1303]

I agree. I also think Lesley is the most likely candidate to have managed mail and the storage unit for Marion.
Lesley assisted police so she isnt obstructive. It suggests to me that either Marion asked her not to talk with Sally about what she knows, or she has told Sally everything she knows and is sick of being hounded about it.
If Lesley does know what happened to Marion and has just been keeping it quiet, she must also know that Marion is at no risk of harm. Gee she must be a very good friend to have kept Marion's secret for so long!
I think the hostility comes from the medias involvement. Lesley being advanced in age probably doesnt want to get caught up in the media attention and all the public opinion. It could actually be quite frightening for her.

I completely agree. Diedre stated that she was upset at text messages to herself and her sisters from Sally, claiming that they were withholding information and not being helpful. If Lesley has received the same kind of correspondence, she may well be very uncomfortable with speaking to Sally or the podcast. Not being critical of Sally- just trying to look from all sides.