Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

[KiwiNZ]

IMO I suspect that this information was given on a phone call (not in person) that Marion did not wish her family to know where she is. The person, if it was a woman, would have been DdH IMO.

IMO the use of the Medicare card was by DdH in Grafton.

IMO Also the Chapman email to Sally on FB in 2002 would have been from RB.

These would have been their attempts in making people think Marion was still alive. Murderers often do this.

But what scammer gives the bank their contact details ? You have the money now run, you don't leave them a number to contact you on ?

I assume Marion needed to update her postal and contact details when she returned, looks like she left Lesley's details as her contact details at least for a period of time, and then change this on her return ?

I don't know I fell like something missing here. If you remove the whole bank ID her makes more sense, but I want to think that they did lol

I personally think RB knew nothing of TLV until contacted by police, I think he did a lot of research after that contact, he just doesn't strike me as the type to be surfing the internet keeping an eye on his past victims, I really don't think he gave them a 2nd thought.

 

[Estelle]

My recollection (but obviously not verified data here) in Queensland at that time was that the branch you set up your account was called your local branch and you could possibly withdraw money without ID as you would be well known. pre ATMs you would fill out paper deposit and withdrawal forms. But in other branches of that bank you would have to show ID. And for large amounts over your daily withdrawal limit, even at your local branch you would have to show ID. TBH Queensland was a different country then!

EDIT: but just realised this was the $5000 per day from Byron and Burleigh branches.

I still cannot accept that Marion would have taken out small amounts of $5,000 per day in cash just to avoid losing bank interest when she could have transferred all the money from one bank account to another and then to an overseas bank account such as Barclays. She just had to have the correct ID to collect it over there which I assume RB had taken from her for "safety reasons". After all, it was her own money and she claimed to be only staying here eight days! The withdrawals began in August and were still happening in September! It has never made sense to me.

 

[centred]

My recollection (but obviously not verified data here) in Queensland at that time was that the branch you set up your account was called your local branch and you could possibly withdraw money without ID as you would be well known. pre ATMs you would fill out paper deposit and withdrawal forms. But in other branches of that bank you would have to show ID. And for large amounts over your daily withdrawal limit, even at your local branch you would have to show ID. TBH Queensland was a different country then!

EDIT: but just realised this was the $5000 per day from Byron and Burleigh branches.

Arrgh yes now i remember , the ole bits of paper , I don't recall showing identification but i guess sighting my signature was one way and comparing it to the one they had or any i may of had and TBH they were so trusting they would glance at it but if is was a tad different not really bat an eyelid , mine is still inconsistent, I can recall even joking with tellers how bad i was at not making up my mind whether to just do full one or if hurried an abbreviation but certain features are recognizable of course , it doesn't feel like that long ago but yeah a different country haha

 

[Estelle]

But what scammer gives the bank their contact details ? You have the money now run, you don't leave them a number to contact you on ?

I assume Marion needed to update her postal and contact details when she returned, looks like she left Lesley's details as her contact details at least for a period of time, and then change this on her return ?

I don't know I fell like something missing here. If you remove the whole bank ID her makes more sense, but I want to think that they did lol

I personally think RB knew nothing of TLV until contacted by police, I think he did a lot of research after that contact, he just doesn't strike me as the type to be surfing the internet keeping an eye on his past victims, I really don't think he gave them a 2nd thought.

But what scammer gives the bank their contact details ? You have the money now run, you don't leave them a number to contact you on ?

No IMO the scammer made the call IMO and did not leave a contact number.

I assume Marion needed to update her postal and contact details when she returned, looks like she left Lesley's details as her contact details at least for a period of time, and then change this on her return ?

IMO Marion had met her demise either in England or soon after she arrived home (if she ever did). IMO DdH impersonated Marion.

 

[gymtonic]

I still cannot accept that Marion would have taken out small amounts of $5,000 per day in cash just to avoid losing bank interest when she could have transferred all the money from one bank account to another and then to an overseas bank account such as Barclays. She just had to have the correct ID to collect it over there which I assume RB had taken from her for "safety reasons". After all, it was her own money and she claimed to be only staying here eight days! The withdrawals began in August and were still happening in September! It has never made sense to me.

MOO For me the only sense is for someone else to withdraw and to not raise red flags and draw attention to it...which is what happened until Sally started asking questions!

 

[KiwiNZ]

I still cannot accept that Marion would have taken out small amounts of $5,000 per day in cash just to avoid losing bank interest when she could have transferred all the money from one bank account to another and then to an overseas bank account such as Barclays. She just had to have the correct ID to collect it over there which I assume RB had taken from her for "safety reasons". After all, it was her own money and she claimed to be only staying here eight days! The withdrawals began in August and were still happening in September! It has never made sense to me.

RB does strike me as a penny pincher, his comment about not using money transfers due to the fee, if he has scammed people out of a lot of money he doesn't seem to have spent it on material things, I think he is very "jewish' ( I can say that I am jewish lol) my father is the same with money, he will take the long way around to save a cent and nothing annoys him more than the bank or business clipping his ticket lol

if he had any say over her money I can imagine he ask her to withdraw it in a way that didn't cause him any unnecessary costs lol they did say that account attracted penalties for amounts over $5K, it might seem odd to us to risk this method over weeks but would make perfect sense to someone whom is tight as with money.

Also as centered pointed out - maybe the money was used for his kids, again a very jewish thing to do, heavily invest in your children's future, education etc...

I say jewish because its quite typical of the culture but other people can have this bent as well of course.

 

[gymtonic]

RB does strike me as a penny pincher, his comment about not using money transfers due to the fee, if he has scammed people out of a lot of money he doesn't seem to have spent it on material things, I think he is very "jewish' ( I can say that I am jewish lol) my father is the same with money, he will take the long way around to save a cent and nothing annoys him more than the bank or business clipping his ticket lol

if he had any say over her money I can imagine he ask her to withdraw it in a way that didn't cause him any unnecessary costs lol they did say that account attracted penalties for amounts over $5K, it might seem odd to us to risk this method over weeks but would make perfect sense to someone whom is tight as with money.

Also as centered point out - maybe the money was used for his kids, again a very jewish thing to do, heavily invest in your children's future, education etc...

I say jewish because its quite typical of the culture but other people can have this bent as well of course.

MOO the not wanting to use Western Union money transfers because of fees was a ruse. The main reason being not to leave a money paper trail.

 

[StarrChance]

I still cannot accept that Marion would have taken out small amounts of $5,000 per day in cash just to avoid losing bank interest when she could have transferred all the money from one bank account to another and then to an overseas bank account such as Barclays. She just had to have the correct ID to collect it over there which I assume RB had taken from her for "safety reasons". After all, it was her own money and she claimed to be only staying here eight days! The withdrawals began in August and were still happening in September! It has never made sense to me.

Never thought about it that way Estelle, I have always thought Marion was in Australia to take the money out.
Thinking about the five thousand dollar limit being important to her to lose some bank interest doesn’t make much sense when you think about the quick sale of her house we’re she sold it under market value.

 

[BonnieB]

RB does strike me as a penny pincher, his comment about not using money transfers due to the fee, if he has scammed people out of a lot of money he doesn't seem to have spent it on material things, I think he is very "jewish' ( I can say that I am jewish lol) my father is the same with money, he will take the long way around to save a cent and nothing annoys him more than the bank or business clipping his ticket lol

if he had any say over her money I can imagine he ask her to withdraw it in a way that didn't cause him any unnecessary costs lol they did say that account attracted penalties for amounts over $5K, it might seem odd to us to risk this method over weeks but would make perfect sense to someone whom is tight as with money.

Also as centered point out - maybe the money was used for his kids, again a very jewish thing to do, heavily invest in your children's future, education etc...

I say jewish because its quite typical of the culture but other people can have this bent as well of course.

The Jewish slant takes me way back to my original theory that his biological father was Jewish ie: surname of DAVID. Hence why he was in the orphanage to hide from the Germans during the war. Also his DL in the name "Chaim" which is a Jewish toast "L'Chaim" or "To Life". Perhaps I'm connecting unrelated dots but they do seem to fit.

 

[centred]

RB does strike me as a penny pincher, his comment about not using money transfers due to the fee, if he has scammed people out of a lot of money he doesn't seem to have spent it on material things, I think he is very "jewish' ( I can say that I am jewish lol) my father is the same with money, he will take the long way around to save a cent and nothing annoys him more than the bank or business clipping his ticket lol

if he had any say over her money I can imagine he ask her to withdraw it in a way that didn't cause him any unnecessary costs lol they did say that account attracted penalties for amounts over $5K, it might seem odd to us to risk this method over weeks but would make perfect sense to someone whom is tight as with money.

Also as centered pointed out - maybe the money was used for his kids, again a very jewish thing to do, heavily invest in your children's future, education etc...

I say jewish because its quite typical of the culture but other people can have this bent as well of course.

I read this book back in the day and Barbara claimed most of us are related to the "Jews " .....
i know penny pinching applies to the Scots traditionally too ..so yeah haha

Barbara Thiering - Wikipedia Jesus the Man ,,fascinating Australian woman was Barbara

 

[Estelle]

RB does strike me as a penny pincher, his comment about not using money transfers due to the fee, if he has scammed people out of a lot of money he doesn't seem to have spent it on material things, I think he is very "jewish' ( I can say that I am jewish lol) my father is the same with money, he will take the long way around to save a cent and nothing annoys him more than the bank or business clipping his ticket lol

if he had any say over her money I can imagine he ask her to withdraw it in a way that didn't cause him any unnecessary costs lol they did say that account attracted penalties for amounts over $5K, it might seem odd to us to risk this method over weeks but would make perfect sense to someone whom is tight as with money.

Also as centered pointed out - maybe the money was used for his kids, again a very jewish thing to do, heavily invest in your children's future, education etc...

I say jewish because its quite typical of the culture but other people can have this bent as well of course.

But that was RB's attitude not Marion's necessarily. For many other reasons, it must have been his wife who withdrew the money.
Marion had only planned to stay eight days here.

 

[Estelle]

Never thought about it that way Estelle, I have always thought Marion was in Australia to take the money out.
Thinking about the five thousand dollar limit being important to her to lose some bank interest doesn’t make much sense when you think about the quick sale of her house we’re she sold it under market value.

Yes Marion lost $15,000 by selling that house quickly.

 

[centred]

Never thought about it that way Estelle, I have always thought Marion was in Australia to take the money out.
Thinking about the five thousand dollar limit being important to her to lose some bank interest doesn’t make much sense when you think about the quick sale of her house we’re she sold it under market value.

yeah as i have said and was my first thought re this ,it just makes no sense for that to be the reason (even if he is a tight a..wad haha)

Where did this idea germinate from anyway ? Sounds ludicrous to be honest

 

[centred]

Yes Marion lost $15,000 by selling that house quickly.

Yes it is a sign of " i just don't care about the loss of the money " I just want out of here ' IMO

 

[Estelle]

nice work

The only thing that is throwing me is the bank IDing Marion and stating she doesn't not want her family to know where she is .. that statement indicates she knows her family is looking for her and therefore the contact by the bank to Marion, triggered by the police enquiry, would have been made after the 22/10

Of course there could be crossed wires in that statement but the lady giving evidence was quite convincing

Don't you think that "Marion" AKA DhH could have phoned the bank herself and she asked the bank to write on her file that she didn't want her family to know where she is or went there in person but insisted it went on file.

 

[centred]

But what scammer gives the bank their contact details ? You have the money now run, you don't leave them a number to contact you on ?

No IMO the scammer made the call IMO and did not leave a contact number.

No IMO the scammer made the call IMO and did not leave a contact number.

How and Why has the scammer made the call to whom ? the bank ?
How would that happen and why ?

 

[vivienbee]

I still cannot accept that Marion would have taken out small amounts of $5,000 per day in cash just to avoid losing bank interest when she could have transferred all the money from one bank account to another and then to an overseas bank account such as Barclays. She just had to have the correct ID to collect it over there which I assume RB had taken from her for "safety reasons". After all, it was her own money and she claimed to be only staying here eight days! The withdrawals began in August and were still happening in September! It has never made sense to me.

But by that same logic, why would RB? If the ID was convincing enough for someone to pass as Marion for multiple daily withdrawals over a longer period, which would have seemed highly suspicious IMO, why didn't whoever was posing as Marion just transfer the whole amount elsewhere? I know transferring funds to another account would leave more of a paper trail, but $80k funds were eventually transferred elsewhere. This idea would make more sense to me if the large withdrawal didn't exist, but none of the whole bank situation seems to make sense, regardless of who was taking the money out.

 

[Estelle]

We have since found out that soon after she left for her ‘long holiday’ to England, she or someone using her passport returned to Australia. Her name was changed to ‘Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel’ and over the course of several weeks her bank account was completely drained in daily increments of $5000 – the maximum amount you can take out WITHOUT HAVING TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF??

28,387 people signed and won this petition

I assume this means that you don't have to show your licence or passport every time you withdraw up to $5,000. They rely on your signature and the bank is covered by insurance for up to that amount just in case there is a problem.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

It was renewed 2/10/1992 Expired 2/12/1997

Thanks @BonnieB I was sure he still had it!

 

[Estelle]

Just to make sure that nobody came looking for her. (she was probably dead by this stage anyway). DdH in person or by phone would have made sure the bank put it on file that she didn't wish to be contacted. Then when questioned by police they referred to the file and repeated what they had been told.