Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #10

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Roseberry said:
At inquest I seem to remember RB saying one of the brothers, I thought he was referring to FW, died before the father AW 'about thirty years ago', so around the 90's. He's emailed the other brother with no response.
Click to expand...
Yes apparently he has not had contact with the other brother for years and had emailed some agency to find out if he was still alive and had no response from them. Kinda strange to have no contact considering the constant travel back and forth. Also considering Mrs Wonka saying he went over to see his brothers/step brothers
 
mishy66 said:
Mum a music "teacher".
So also as a teacher, a great tool for new immigrants wanting to learn english as well perhaps?

Makes sense to me now that Willy Wonka stays at a house in whale beach on his return with the W family in the Chusan.....
Click to expand...

Hi Mishy66:), I don't get the connections. Can you please tell me how it makes sense that Willy Wonka writes address in Whale Beach on his Chusan passenger card 1971?:D
 
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Penguinpoet said:
Was it 1968 that WW was claiming to be recuperating in Switzerland? Maybe that was a euphemism for prison?! I am still very drawn to the idea that WW is actually FD.
Click to expand...
Welcome to Websleuths Penguinpoet. Interesting theory. I noticed when they were asking RB about aliases he's used when it came to FD he didn't answer "yes" or "no", he just said something like "that's my brother", no "yes" or "no" answer; I thought that was interesting.
 
Roseberry said:
At inquest I seem to remember RB saying one of the brothers, I thought he was referring to FW, died before the father AW 'about thirty years ago', so around the 90's. He's emailed the other brother with no response.
Click to expand...


Yeah I know , but I dont believe anything he says until its proven otherwise.

I have been searching like a crazy woman since that wonderful link to the papers were put up, but nothing so far for both the name FW or FD in regards to a death. OR for DDW the "lost brother".

I dont doubt he is deceased and possibly quite recently. I just need proof as I dont give validation to old mates words.

Technically the name wouters is being used by all the conviction notices, and then there is a F David conviction in 1968.

So if what he says is true (in part) at inquest, that FD (born 1942, the same yr WW says he goes into orphanage), dies prior to DD death in 1943, (which would make him 1 yrs old at death) then it does show willy wonka is using FD as an alias back in Feb 1968. ( WW would be 29 yrs old by then so his mother wouldnt know he was using his brothers as alias).
This name is then used again on passenger card march 1971.
And not used again (as far as we have established)


But then again.......

FDW is jailed for 1 year Feb 1968/ out Feb 1969

The Renov company is formed Oct 1968

WDW jailed April 1969 for 6 mths....
That brings us to October 1969

So somehow WW marries IK in May 1969 and travels to Australia the same month!!?

Oct 1969, the time of WW prison release....
The same time that he is granted a permit to remain in Aust under the name FdeH

A baby is born Jan 1970 --mother already pregnant on arrival ( going on arrival dates)
How can WW be the father if in prison until Oct 69...

And the brother DDW is no where to be found.....

Is it not conceivable that perhaps two brothers are twins?

By my timeline of the 3 children born prior to MC husbands death in 1943, that would leave her with 3 kids under 3!!

Is this why old mate was insisting at the inquest to take lie detector tests.
Some parts of his story is not actually him.

Is this the mastermind of two swindling twin brothers using their skills to undermine the federal police, ASIO, innocent women.

I have found no definitive evidence of the birthdate of the child born WDW. Only what he says or what he uses on his documents.

Could it be that FDW and DDW are twins.
Using their older brother as an alias. (Maybe the real WD did go into an orphanage at the start of the war when the mother found herself pregnant with twins and possibly sick?)


 
MrsWattle said:
Hi Mishy66:), I don't get the connections. Can you please tell me how it makes sense that Willy Wonka writes address in Whale Beach on his Chusan passenger card 1971?:D
Click to expand...

I have always wondered why it was that he happened upon a family to take him under their wing, a wealthy family meeting a person with no connection to Aust and yet offering him a place to stay.... did he not arrange accommodation prior to arriving at a new country, one he has only briefly visited before... ( IF it really is the same person who came out in 1969 with IK)
Each passenger card shows them at a different address (parents same address).
So I have always wondered why it is that he puts an address down the road from the W family, in an area that is quite effluent..... wouldn't he be staying close to people of his age and interests near the city..... and why is it that he isnt actually staying at the W residence.
Was he offered a place to stay with a family connection who was able to help him with his english...?
 
mishy66 said:
Yeah I know , but I dont believe anything he says until its proven otherwise.

I have been searching like a crazy woman since that wonderful link to the papers were put up, but nothing so far for both the name FW or FD in regards to a death. OR for DDW the "lost brother".

I dont doubt he is deceased and possibly quite recently. I just need proof as I dont give validation to old mates words.

Technically the name wouters is being used by all the conviction notices, and then there is a F David conviction in 1968.

So if what he says is true (in part) at inquest, that FD (born 1942, the same yr WW says he goes into orphanage), dies prior to DD death in 1943, (which would make him 1 yrs old at death) then it does show willy wonka is using FD as an alias back in Feb 1968. ( WW would be 29 yrs old by then so his mother wouldnt know he was using his brothers as alias).
This name is then used again on passenger card march 1971.
And not used again (as far as we have established)


But then again.......

FDW is jailed for 1 year Feb 1968/ out Feb 1969

The Renov company is formed Oct 1968

WDW jailed April 1969 for 6 mths....
That brings us to October 1969

So somehow WW marries IK in May 1969 and travels to Australia the same month!!?

Oct 1969, the time of WW prison release....
The same time that he is granted a permit to remain in Aust under the name FdeH

A baby is born Jan 1970 --mother already pregnant on arrival ( going on arrival dates)
How can WW be the father if in prison until Oct 69...

And the brother DDW is no where to be found.....

Is it not conceivable that perhaps two brothers are twins?

By my timeline of the 3 children born prior to MC husbands death in 1943, that would leave her with 3 kids under 3!!

Is this why old mate was insisting at the inquest to take lie detector tests.
Some parts of his story is not actually him.

Is this the mastermind of two swindling twin brothers using their skills to undermine the federal police, ASIO, innocent women.

I have found no definitive evidence of the birthdate of the child born WDW. Only what he says or what he uses on his documents.

Could it be that FDW and DDW are twins.
Using their older brother as an alias. (Maybe the real WD did go into an orphanage at the start of the war when the mother found herself pregnant with twins and possibly sick?)
Click to expand...
Twins. Have to admit that crossed my mind, but couldn't cope with this story getting any more outlandish than it already is!
It would make perfect sense though - the very few details on WW, scant details and the relative silence of DW as an identifiable person. The jiggery-pokery with prisons and travels, not to mention Mama C having all those babies in a short period of time as a recent amputee. Possibility too, of a death of a child way back in a war-accident relating to the one that also caused the amputation. Just IMO.
 
mishy66 said:
Yeah I know , but I dont believe anything he says until its proven otherwise.

I have been searching like a crazy woman since that wonderful link to the papers were put up, but nothing so far for both the name FW or FD in regards to a death. OR for DDW the "lost brother".

I dont doubt he is deceased and possibly quite recently. I just need proof as I dont give validation to old mates words.

Technically the name wouters is being used by all the conviction notices, and then there is a F David conviction in 1968.

So if what he says is true (in part) at inquest, that FD (born 1942, the same yr WW says he goes into orphanage), dies prior to DD death in 1943, (which would make him 1 yrs old at death) then it does show willy wonka is using FD as an alias back in Feb 1968. ( WW would be 29 yrs old by then so his mother wouldnt know he was using his brothers as alias).
This name is then used again on passenger card march 1971.
And not used again (as far as we have established)


But then again.......

FDW is jailed for 1 year Feb 1968/ out Feb 1969

The Renov company is formed Oct 1968

WDW jailed April 1969 for 6 mths....
That brings us to October 1969

So somehow WW marries IK in May 1969 and travels to Australia the same month!!?

Oct 1969, the time of WW prison release....
The same time that he is granted a permit to remain in Aust under the name FdeH

A baby is born Jan 1970 --mother already pregnant on arrival ( going on arrival dates)
How can WW be the father if in prison until Oct 69...

And the brother DDW is no where to be found.....

Is it not conceivable that perhaps two brothers are twins?

By my timeline of the 3 children born prior to MC husbands death in 1943, that would leave her with 3 kids under 3!!

Is this why old mate was insisting at the inquest to take lie detector tests.
Some parts of his story is not actually him.

Is this the mastermind of two swindling twin brothers using their skills to undermine the federal police, ASIO, innocent women.

I have found no definitive evidence of the birthdate of the child born WDW. Only what he says or what he uses on his documents.

Could it be that FDW and DDW are twins.
Using their older brother as an alias. (Maybe the real WD did go into an orphanage at the start of the war when the mother found herself pregnant with twins and possibly sick?)
Click to expand...
I have the feeling, by the naa documents, that these sentences were often reduced and/or served concurrently. Which makes it a lot harder to lock in a timeline
 
Itsapuzzle said:
Welcome to Websleuths Penguinpoet. Interesting theory. I noticed when they were asking RB about aliases he's used when it came to FD he didn't answer "yes" or "no", he just said something like "that's my brother", no "yes" or "no" answer; I thought that was interesting.
Click to expand...

.....as if RB felt entitled to use his dead brother's name.
 
mishy66 said:
Yeah I know , but I dont believe anything he says until its proven otherwise.

I have been searching like a crazy woman since that wonderful link to the papers were put up, but nothing so far for both the name FW or FD in regards to a death. OR for DDW the "lost brother".

I dont doubt he is deceased and possibly quite recently. I just need proof as I dont give validation to old mates words.

Technically the name wouters is being used by all the conviction notices, and then there is a F David conviction in 1968.

So if what he says is true (in part) at inquest, that FD (born 1942, the same yr WW says he goes into orphanage), dies prior to DD death in 1943, (which would make him 1 yrs old at death) then it does show willy wonka is using FD as an alias back in Feb 1968. ( WW would be 29 yrs old by then so his mother wouldnt know he was using his brothers as alias).
This name is then used again on passenger card march 1971.
And not used again (as far as we have established)


But then again.......

FDW is jailed for 1 year Feb 1968/ out Feb 1969

The Renov company is formed Oct 1968

WDW jailed April 1969 for 6 mths....
That brings us to October 1969

So somehow WW marries IK in May 1969 and travels to Australia the same month!!?

Oct 1969, the time of WW prison release....
The same time that he is granted a permit to remain in Aust under the name FdeH

A baby is born Jan 1970 --mother already pregnant on arrival ( going on arrival dates)
How can WW be the father if in prison until Oct 69...

And the brother DDW is no where to be found.....

Is it not conceivable that perhaps two brothers are twins?

By my timeline of the 3 children born prior to MC husbands death in 1943, that would leave her with 3 kids under 3!!

Is this why old mate was insisting at the inquest to take lie detector tests.
Some parts of his story is not actually him.

Is this the mastermind of two swindling twin brothers using their skills to undermine the federal police, ASIO, innocent women.

I have found no definitive evidence of the birthdate of the child born WDW. Only what he says or what he uses on his documents.

Could it be that FDW and DDW are twins.
Using their older brother as an alias. (Maybe the real WD did go into an orphanage at the start of the war when the mother found herself pregnant with twins and possibly sick?)
Click to expand...
I sway between a few scenariois with the brothers.

FD & WW are the same person…! FD died WW uses his name or even WW died and FD used his persona.

And it’s not impossible that there are twins..
one lives one dies. Leaving Mr Aka and the mystery brother DD(W) -

But my strong gut is FD & RB paper trail of crimes are in fact the same person.

interestingly we can’t find RB using mystery brother DD’s name and persona.. which IMO means he is/was alive during the time Mr Aka (WW/FD) was on a fraud bender in the 60’s

but they haven’t talked for years.. why? What caused the rift? Did he try and involve him later in life? In the 90’s perhaps?

there’s 2 brothers, that’s my firm belief.
 
Eyespywithmylittleeye said:
To my understanding KR isn’t the founder of the travel company.

edit: Joined after the company was established
Click to expand...

From their website:

Backed by their shared passion for travel and keen eyes for business, RJ and NB launched online travel agent TripADeal in 2011, and the travel revolution was underway.

Our Story TripADeal
 
Eyespywithmylittleeye said:
I sway between a few scenariois with the brothers.

FD & WW are the same person…! FD died WW uses his name or even WW died and FD used his persona.

And it’s not impossible that there are twins..
one lives one dies. Leaving Mr Aka and the mystery brother DD(W) -

But my strong gut is FD & RB paper trail of crimes are in fact the same person.

interestingly we can’t find RB using mystery brother DD’s name and persona.. which IMO means he is/was alive during the time Mr Aka (WW/FD) was on a fraud bender in the 60’s

but they haven’t talked for years.. why? What caused the rift? Did he try and involve him later in life? In the 90’s perhaps?

there’s 2 brothers, that’s my firm belief.
Click to expand...
Or WD used FD details in his crimes and the family disowned him. Hence no contact with DD.

His trips to visit family, were to visit his pals, or partners in crime.
 
So DDH’s sister & family would have been living in Byron Bay at time Marion is using bank at Byron Bay. Wonder if they had an extra room/home where RB & Marion stayed? That’s a pretty close family connection to Byron Bay around the time Marion goes missing. I believe Casseldon asks DDH about RB going to Byron Bay and she says nothing about having a sister there. Given that both sisters had children work at Tripadeal, it seems reasonable the families were at least somewhat close ( not estranged).
 
Meligator said:
So DDH’s sister & family would have been living in Byron Bay at time Marion is using bank at Byron Bay. Wonder if they had an extra room/home where RB & Marion stayed? That’s a pretty close family connection to Byron Bay around the time Marion goes missing. I believe Casseldon asks DDH about RB going to Byron Bay and she says nothing about having a sister there. Given that both sisters had children work at Tripadeal, it seems reasonable the families were at least somewhat close ( not estranged).
Click to expand...


Very close alright.
 
Meligator said:
So DDH’s sister & family would have been living in Byron Bay at time Marion is using bank at Byron Bay. Wonder if they had an extra room/home where RB & Marion stayed? That’s a pretty close family connection to Byron Bay around the time Marion goes missing. I believe Casseldon asks DDH about RB going to Byron Bay and she says nothing about having a sister there. Given that both sisters had children work at Tripadeal, it seems reasonable the families were at least somewhat close ( not estranged).
Click to expand...
The connection to travel company didn’t exist back then as both that work at the company now would’ve been in school.
 
There’s actually in total 3 members 2 cousins and 1 partner working at the travel place. Personally for me the 3 that are there have nothing to do with 1997 and MC so I think the connections are merely family giving jobs to family which is not uncommon.

they were all young at that time and the company didn’t exist :)
 
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