Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[gymtonic]

Also discussed in the inquest yesterday was something very interesting:

Marion originally resigned from TSS in April 1997 (please correct me if I am wrong), with her last day being 14 July.

But on the 16 June, she changed her last day to the end of that week, the 20 June.

This is curious considering both their flights.

Why did she resign but not have her ticket yet? Or was the travel date moved forward?

The year before, 6 July 1996 MB applies for a passport (presumably in her MB name) so this often indicates an intention to travel.

 

[Martinie]

But would the kids know anything? As in know that he defrauded and killed Marion? They were teenagers so I doubt they were his co-conspirators and I can’t see him disclosing such a thing to them in the aftermath. And if either of those things were the case they would have put the inquest on hold and charged him, wouldn’t they? The inquest is not obligated to continue if they already have the evidence to charge him. (Example: the inquest for Daniel Morcombe was paused because police were launching an undercover operation against Brett Cowan and as criminal charges were laid, the inquest stayed on hold for years until all proceedings and appeals were finished.) His children might have met Marion or seen her belongings? But again that only would prove he knew her and stored some stuff for her which he has already admitted to. So close I think but not close enough… They seem to be focusing on the money trail though - the purchase of the second car, the money envelope. I can see that they would have asked his children questions about that and their answers could contribute to a circumstantial case (ie yes we had another car) but I think it’s unlikely that they are direct witnesses to the crimes. Just my opinion.

I still wonder where Marion might have been staying when she came back to Australia. A hotel? A short-term rental? Has this been explored yet at the inquest? I don’t think she stayed with his family (and I don’t think he would have willingly let her cross paths with them )that would have blown his story as her prospective husband. I feel like the con was on until her accounts were drained - and then something happened.

I also wondered about this. Would there even be any trace of that by now? She could have just rented a room for a few weeks, or stayed with a friend that her family didn't know about? Maybe he payed for her to stay somewhere? Unless there's someone who knows about lodging in the area at the time would know? This is so frustrating, I can't imagine how Sally feels. I hope for her sake this gets solved.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

yeah that motorbike mention bothers me .. he made it sound like he arrived at Marion's there was a motor bike there so he assumed another man was there and left ... so what, arrived unannounced after catching a train then a bus / taxi and just turned around an go back ? The motorbike has played a part but not that part IMO

But yes I was thinking could it of been Owen (he did have a bike) that met him, when he visited Marion before she went away, I cant remember the timing though, was it Sally's engagement ?

I've long suspected Owen knew something, maybe even something he didn't know he knew, and worried he had let his mother down in some way. Didnt protect her. Poor man. His death makes me as sad as Sally's travails, and I hold Wonka responsible in my heart.

 

[Mjjj14]

First time posting but have read the notes in the threads, listened to the podcast & tried to see if I could add any value to so much of the already amazing detective work.

A few comments having lived in German, French speaking countries & apologies if I am repeating anything
• His accent in the live inquest sounds more German than French
• His spelling in some cases and comments in the inquest “How you say in German” … reinforce that

He makes a comment “I left Luxembourg 40 years ago and I never returned there”

In Belgium there is also a town called Luxemburg.

Someone asked about the spelling of the fictitious name that he was unable to change to in 2009. Possibly “Zaccari Zebdel Bozilli then Zebdel Zilli”

• For the incoming/outgoing passenger cards, had been curious not just about the handwriting (e.g dot on capitalised i in some cases and unusual ticks in places) but also choice of pen - would a teacher who was quite elegant usually use a sharpie? Or was that something frequently available on flights or at the desk used in advance…

Was it a sharpie? I thought it was just a regular old ballpoint pen? Maybe I need to go back and check.

I have had lots of instances where I’ve been caught without a pen and have just used to ones on the desks or if filling the incoming passenger card out on the plane, I’ve borrowed a pen from the person next to me or from a flight attendant.

 

[gymtonic]

Also I’m pretty positive Sally herself mentioned ‘tea chests’ in an early episode of the podcast. This is likely where he’s come up with the tea chest idea.

Although he also said yesterday "...tea chests like the ones they used to deliver tea in 'beek [taken to mean Etterbeek]", so IMO it is a story dredged up from something in his past.

 

[gymtonic]

Duplicate

 

[Martinie]

What sort of car did he say Marion and “ the pilot” arrived in to collect these tea chests I wonder ? I know my 4WD wouldn’t fit 3 x tea chests in the back of it

He claimed it was a white U van i think he said?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I like the idea of Wonks shipping Marion's things abroad to sell, but wouldnt the risk be great, having one of your many names on the shipping receipts? But what if he told Marion HE would ship the tea chests to Luxembourg for their new house and then disposed of goods in Australia? Either way he runs a big risk having his name attached.

Unless. . .Marion herself ships her things to the real FR in Luxembourg. And he's implicated. He sells furniture, right? His old buddy Ric calls in a favor or tells him a lady wants to sell her things in Europe, will he help? And give Wonks a cut? Just kidding!!

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I think Casselden uses "are you quite sure of that" as a tactic to stop RB later changing his story.

For example, when RB says something that Casselden knows is a lie, he then gives RB the opportunity to correct the lie, but RB doesn't, he just further cements the lie, essentially saying the lie multiple times.

This way, it will be hard for RB to change his story or argue he was being pressured and his words twisted.

Casselden used it several times today, when he read RB's testimony back to him and called him out for changing a story despite being asked earlier, "think carefully, are you sure of that, are you quite sure?"

Either that or the court is keeping score of every time he perjures himself and they will fine/charge him for every single lie, so they see getting him to repeat lies to double the penalty, hahaha.

 

[BonnieB]

I like the idea of Wonks shipping Marion's things abroad to sell, but wouldnt the risk be great, having one of your many names on the shipping receipts? But what if he told Marion HE would ship the tea chests to Luxembourg for their new house and then disposed of goods in Australia? Either way he runs a big risk having his name attached.

Unless. . .Marion herself ships her things to the real FR in Luxembourg. And he's implicated. He sells furniture, right? His old buddy Ric calls in a favor or tells him a lady wants to sell her things in Europe, will he help? And give Wonks a cut? Just kidding!!

Don't do that!
I could just imagine a few sleuths disappearing down rabbit holes lol

 

[TheStupidTree]

I think Casselden uses "are you quite sure of that" as a tactic to stop RB later changing his story.

For example, when RB says something that Casselden knows is a lie, he then gives RB the opportunity to correct the lie, but RB doesn't, he just further cements the lie, essentially saying the lie multiple times.

This way, it will be hard for RB to change his story or argue he was being pressured and his words twisted.

Casselden used it several times today, when he read RB's testimony back to him and called him out for changing a story despite being asked earlier, "think carefully, are you sure of that, are you quite sure?"

Either that or the court is keeping score of every time he perjures himself and they will fine/charge him for every single lie, so they see getting him to repeat lies to double the penalty, hahaha.

I am hoping that Marion’s painting has turned up and the new owner has a story to tell.

 

[ChrysStevenson]

I guess so, but there's something not quite right that's bugging me. Ha ha, his whole testimony isn't quite right!
Maybe it's because he described the chests as sealed with metal strips.
It's like when one of your kids tells you a story about where they've been and it all sounds above board but something niggles at you that's not quite right. Lol

Tea chests are sealed at the edges with metal strips. That’s a very accurate detail.

 

[lrb66]

I think RB does display some Parkinson’s symptoms like tremors and perseveration or repeating of words. However, I find it most pronounced when he is confronted with his lies and mis truths…I I I I I I I never is a repeated phrase I heard so many times during his testimony today!
I hope whatever comes from this inquest it happens quickly for Sally’s sake.
He will claim cognitive decline with any further delays or future proceedings.
He is laying the groundwork IMO

 

[DK007]

I wonder if the inquest will finish tomorrow? It’s hard to imagine …. With RB dragging his “evidence out” and changing it again. I really hope they can establish what happened to MB.

 

[DK007]

I think RB does display some Parkinson’s symptoms like tremors and perseveration or repeating of words. However, I find it most pronounced when he is confronted with his lies and mis truths…I I I I I I I never is a repeated phrase I heard so many times during his testimony today!
I hope whatever comes from this inquest it happens quickly for Sally’s sake.
He will claim cognitive decline with any further delays or future proceedings.
He is laying the groundwork IMO

Anxiety can cause repeated phrases too. Unless a medical report from a treating neurologist or specialist has been provided to the court confirming RB Parkinson’s diagnosis, I don’t believe it.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

His purpose with ZZ and Chaim names might be to distance himself from being a French-German speaking Belgian.

But also perhaps to better target a victim - I would be looking into conmen within the Jewish and Muslim communities. Same with Roger Lazouney alias.

I remember GGB's friend from church said there was another lady targeted. It was never really clear if she was also from church.

I wouldn't be surprised if RB was targeting spiritual people. That might even be why he is able to move so quickly with targets... marry fast... and might not even bed them necessarily.

Either that, or he has already conned people by those names and simply taken their identity. Just ideas.

My sense of WW is he repeatedly takes real other people's names (and makes variations of them) but at this point, any name he's used, I'm assuming it's from acquiring false documents or impersonating someone.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Anxiety can cause repeated phrases too. Unless a medical report from a treating neurologist has been provided to the court confirming RB Parkinson’s diagnosis, I don’t believe it.

Deception / playing for time / computing different responses would also cause the same and I've noticed he repeatedly does it when the answer to the question would be fairly condemning.

 

[DK007]

Deception / playing for time / computing different responses would also cause the same and I've noticed he repeatedly does it when the answer to the question would be fairly condemning.

Yes that too, agreed !

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I know I’m a pessimist but I don’t think they have enough to charge him. I think they definitely have evidence that he is a liar, he has coerced and stolen from women, and he knew and had a significant relationship with Marion. I think he murdered Marion but I think the announcement about increasing the reward means they are still searching for a definitive witness leading to definitive evidence that he is guilty not of being a liar and a conman, but evidence that he is a murderer. I also think there are a lot of other victims out there. I think this investigation still has a bit to go yet, but I feel that one thing that has been achieved is plainly revealing that Marion was the victim of a scam. If she left her family “willingly” it was due to manipulate and coercion, with a man who misrepresented his identity. I think it can be acknowledged now by all that she is not living a blissful “new life” somewhere. That at least gives real direction to an ongoing homicide investigation.

They can at least charge him with providing false and misleading information on identification documents.

He's so old now and he's lived a blessed and luxurious life off the back of other people's money. I think being exposed how he is to his own family, wife, and everyone who's ever known him will be punishment in its own right.

Obviously, we'd all like to know a LOT more and see a lot more consequences - can he be deported or imprisoned or both. The main thing is to hope other victims may come forward, that there may be some justice for other victims (for example a repayment order), that his assets may be seized, that his wife may talk. And most of all that there can be an answer as to what exactly happened to Marion.

 

[Passingthru]

My thoughts: He chose her new name. I can see him saying something like “you’re my Florabella” in one of his creepy notes or just in person. And then convinced her to change her name to that because it suits her and blahblahblah. Totally romantic. He wanted to have her initials and his initials to match (FD Ramakel). I can also see him saying something like “oh, I sent this over the phone they must have mistaken Florabella for Ferdinand” or some other bs. Or just telling her to use FD for one reason or another.

I’m completely on the fence about whether the tea chests existing or not. It seems to fit the con pattern. But at the same time anything even tangentially related to Marion he seems to lie through his teeth about… I absolutely can’t see him having them in his family home, or even allowing Marion to know where his family lived. It’s just too dangerous IMO. What if she drives by and sees his kids/wife? Or sees something inside/outside that points to their existence? I can’t help but wonder if there was a secondary location we haven’t heard about/hasn’t been discovered that he was using for his “homebase”. Something off books that he was renting with cash.

I still think his wife was aware of his cons. She just didn’t care. So long as she had nice things (and I’d put money on some of those nice things being stolen). I wish we had earlier pictures of her, because I think she withdrew money as Marion in Byron Bay.

What’s amazing to me is I feel like, even after all his testimony, we still don’t know who this man is. Was he really Willy Wooters? Was he injured? Or did he just steal that identity too?