Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

[mishy66]

yeah that motorbike mention bothers me .. he made it sound like he arrived at Marion's there was a motor bike there so he assumed another man was there and left ... so what, arrived unannounced after catching a train then a bus / taxi and just turned around an go back ? The motorbike has played a part but not that part IMO

But yes I was thinking could it of been Owen (he did have a bike) that met him, when he visited Marion before she went away, I cant remember the timing though, was it Sally's engagement ?

Well, just for starters, who picked up that shipping container and where did it go and to who? We know he had his fingers in that pie!

So Owen did have a motorbike.
It is possible then that he was the one RB saw and met at the house, possibly Owen visited unannounced to see Marion and Blum was there, or when the shipping container was picked up Owen was there?

I don't believe his story of a boyfriend, or leaving again after seeing the bike, it is all just deflection.

 

[Mjjj14]

Why does RB keep saying THE mother instead of MY mother. He says this continuously. Is this because she really wasn’t HIS mother and it’s a slip of the tongue or is it just because he speaks another language as well as English. Do any other multi lingual people make this mistake? I’m sure others have this view, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest that his birth identity is just another name he was ‘wearing’.

The fact he said “I might’ve told her the name I was wearing at the time” just makes my skin crawl.

 

[mishy66]

Although he also said yesterday "...tea chests like the ones they used to deliver tea in 'beek [taken to mean Etterbeek]", so IMO it is a story dredged up from something in his past.

I agree @gymtonic . Just another waffling detail he used to try and cement the idea he knew what tea chests were .

 

[mishy66]

Why does RB keep saying THE mother instead of MY mother. He says this continuously. Is this because she really wasn’t HIS mother and it’s a slip of the tongue or is it just because he speaks another language as well as English. Do any other multi lingual people make this mistake? I’m sure others have this view, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest that his birth identity is just another name he was ‘wearing’.

The fact he said “I might’ve told her the name I was wearing at the time” just makes my skin crawl.

She wasnt his mother.

 

[KiwiNZ]

The fact he said “I might’ve told her the name I was wearing at the time” just makes my skin crawl.

how does he even think anyone would believe him that he had an affair with Marion in the 60's and either gave his name as Willy Wouters or didn't give her a name at all lol.. and then when she meet him on 97 he was called Ric ( or Fernand depending which of his many version you believe ) and they didn't even discuss his name change lol

This guy is a fool

 

[mishy66]

Interesting his use of the word 'untermenschen' which is the german word the nazis used in persecution of jews, gypsies, etc. Hints that he comes from a jewish background maybe? Or he's playing on that pitiful story?

And that his extreme narcissistic exploitative predatory behaviour is a compensatory personality disorder for feeling worthless and persecuted.

He certainly visited Germany a lot and had 'family' connections from that time.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Good point. RB didn't suggest a name change for his other target, did he?

It could be that Marion was anticipating getting married in Luxemberg, and decided to anticipate the happy event by doing some of the paperwork (most brides wait until after...)

Since she indicated that she was married when she came back, did she go through an actual marriage ceremony that gave her the rationale/ committment to transfer her money to a joint account...? This might answer the question of why she was willing to transfer money after she came back, which she didn't do before she went (ie, the 40K account in the UK).

IMO, if she was being impersonated, why didn't they impersonate her flying back to Luxemberg? Why didn't they impersonate her all the way to the UK, to claim that 40k?

That's the loose end that RB left hanging in this scheme. Was that just laziness? Or, was this a one-man operation, with no accomplices to have to share the money with, be blackmailed by, or who might go to police once they got fed up him?

JMO

I think he didn’t suggest it for the other two women because they were a revised version he learnt the first time same name is not good

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

She wasnt his mother.

Agree

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think he didn’t suggest it for the other two women because they were a revised version he learnt the first time same name is not good

Agree he doesn't seem to have actual used it ( so far as I can see) the only thing I thought he may have used it for is the container if she stored it under Florabella R he may have been able to take it out of storage.

 

[mishy66]

My thoughts: He chose her new name. I can see him saying something like “you’re my Florabella” in one of his creepy notes or just in person. And then convinced her to change her name to that because it suits her and blahblahblah. Totally romantic. He wanted to have her initials and his initials to match (FD Ramakel). I can also see him saying something like “oh, I sent this over the phone they must have mistaken Florabella for Ferdinand” or some other bs. Or just telling her to use FD for one reason or another.

I’m completely on the fence about whether the tea chests existing or not. It seems to fit the con pattern. But at the same time anything even tangentially related to Marion he seems to lie through his teeth about… I absolutely can’t see him having them in his family home, or even allowing Marion to know where his family lived. It’s just too dangerous IMO. What if she drives by and sees his kids/wife? Or sees something inside/outside that points to their existence? I can’t help but wonder if there was a secondary location we haven’t heard about/hasn’t been discovered that he was using for his “homebase”. Something off books that he was renting with cash.

I still think his wife was aware of his cons. She just didn’t care. So long as she had nice things (and I’d put money on some of those nice things being stolen). I wish we had earlier pictures of her, because I think she withdrew money as Marion in Byron Bay.

What’s amazing to me is I feel like, even after all his testimony, we still don’t know who this man is. Was he really Willy Wooters? Was he injured? Or did he just steal that identity too?

Agree too that they chose the name together cementing the union for Marion that their Initials are bound forever.

I don't believe there were any tea chests stored at his home. More like he stored the shipping container on another piece of property he had somewhere else.

He wouldn't dare risk Marion coming to his home, so he would never have given her his address.

He was never Willy Wouters. Just another alias. He was already using the names Ric Blum, De Hedervary and Willy Coppenolle back in 1968.

I believe his real name is Willy Coppenolle. Son of Robert Coppenolle and as yet undisclosed mother.

 

[Satchie]

She wasnt his mother.

I didn't watch the inquest...Care to elucidate a bit?

I don't know many languages, but in French, and, it seems, German, mother is a word used to explain the specific relationships of mother and child. My mother, my wife's mother, my mother in law, the mother of my friend. Maybe you are writing a play with a character you've called 'the mother', but, in the play itself, she would be addressed as 'Mama', or by her given name.

JMO

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Agree too that they chose the name together cementing the union for Marion that their Initials are bound forever.

I don't believe there were any tea chests stored at his home. More like he stored the shipping container on another piece of property he had somewhere else.

He wouldn't dare risk Marion coming to his home, so he would never have given her his address.

He was never Willy Wouters. Just another alias. He was already using the names Ric Blum, De Hedervary and Willy Coppenolle back in 1968.

I believe his real name is Willy Coppenolle. Son of Robert Coppenolle and as yet undisclosed mother.

Exactly. Maria was his Aunty his ‘step brothers’ were his cousins. We have delved into this many times and still come back to the same thing. That’s why he says ‘the mother’ not my mother

 

[gymtonic]

Agree he doesn't seem to have actual used it ( so far as I can see) the only thing I thought he may have used it for is the container if she stored it under Florabella R he may have been able to take it out of storage.

I guess we don’t know about any passports from other countries…that would be interesting!

 

[mishy66]

This is where i think the FN Remakel initials become important. I don’t think it was any coincidence Marions new name happened to also shorten to the same initials. This would have made it easy for him to send and receive mail in her name. My father and I have the same initials. I could often collect his mail, deliveries etc and vice versa.

 

[mishy66]

I didn't watch the inquest...Care to elucidate a bit?

I don't know many languages, but in French, and, it seems, German, mother is a word used to explain the specific relationships of mother and child. My mother, my wife's mother, my mother in law, the mother of my friend. Maybe you are writing a play with a character you've called 'the mother', but, in the play itself, she would be addressed as 'Mama', or by her given name.

JMO

There is a whole discussion on his parentage. If you use the search bar it should come up. Hopefully....

 

[gymtonic]

I didn't watch the inquest...Care to elucidate a bit?

I don't know many languages, but in French, and, it seems, German, mother is a word used to explain the specific relationships of mother and child. My mother, my wife's mother, my mother in law, the mother of my friend. Maybe you are writing a play with a character you've called 'the mother', but, in the play itself, she would be addressed as 'Mama', or by her given name.

JMO

I think it’s because when questioned about his mother (yesterday and in previous sittings), in his response he always says «the » mother died…rather than « My » mother died. This comes across as an unusual way to refer to your mother for English as a first language speakers. IMO I am undecided as to whether this is a genuine English as a second language quirk, an affectation of an ESL quirk or she was not in fact his mother and it is a slip of the tongue. (although I lean towards the last!)

He has also said (at times) « the » brother rather than « my » brother. He does it just after he is audibly (but under his breath) going through a timeline to, what seems to be, « get his story straight »

 

[KateM]

If there's not a Netflix series based on this with the title "The song in a man's testicles", I will eat my hat. I nearly spat my tea. Sorry if this makes light of the situation but really, this testimony is too farcical to believe at times.

Speaking of Netflix, this guy makes Dirty John look good!

 

[KateM]

I know I’m a pessimist but I don’t think they have enough to charge him. I think they definitely have evidence that he is a liar, he has coerced and stolen from women, and he knew and had a significant relationship with Marion. I think he murdered Marion but I think the announcement about increasing the reward means they are still searching for a definitive witness leading to definitive evidence that he is guilty not of being a liar and a conman, but evidence that he is a murderer. I also think there are a lot of other victims out there. I think this investigation still has a bit to go yet, but I feel that one thing that has been achieved is plainly revealing that Marion was the victim of a scam. If she left her family “willingly” it was due to manipulate and coercion, with a man who misrepresented his identity. I think it can be acknowledged now by all that she is not living a blissful “new life” somewhere. That at least gives real direction to an ongoing homicide investigation.

Sadly, I think you're right. And I also don't believe that Marion is the first person to die (allegedly), at his hands...

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think it’s because when questioned about his mother (yesterday and in previous sittings), in his response he always says «the » mother died…rather than « My » mother died. This comes across as an unusual way to refer to your mother for English as a first language speakers. IMO I am undecided as to whether this is a genuine English as a second language quirk, an affectation of an ESL quirk or she was not in fact his mother and it is a slip of the tongue. (although I lean towards the last!)

He has also said (at times) « the » brother rather than « my » brother. He does it just after he is audibly (but under his breath) going through a timeline to, what seems to be, « get his story straight »

if his wife was truthful and believes MC to be his Aunt ( she spent time with his family you would think this would have come up) how does he now explain to her that he now claims her to be his mother lol.. 40 years of marriage and the basics like, who is your mother and father have not been addressed ... IMO he is lying on the stand about who his mother is and if that isn't a light bulb moment for his family not sure what would be

 

[KateM]

Yes - I just cannot get over this part of it either. Leaving suddenly before the end of term was strange and I always thought it might’ve had to do with the school allegations and the fact Sally said she was extremely upset/tired. I have definitely changed my mind about that now we know when RB travelled in 97.

I’ve always wondered whether she booked a round trip ticket or whether she only had a one way ticket. I’ve always wondered how far in advance her flights were booked.

I wonder why RB wanted them to travel on those specific dates instead of a month later when Marion must’ve initially intended to travel.

His wife is either brain dead or an assailant IMO.