Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[KiwiNZ]

Yes, BS did ask RB if he influenced MB’s decision to obtain an INT DL which he denied but BS also said Marion had ticked the INT DL as a form of ID for her passport. Whether he meant she used RB’s fake FNR INT DL or her own is unclear. So is the process for getting a passport include an application for an INT DL?
I’m confused

TO get an International drivers license you need to produce your actual drivers license because the point of a IDL is that it certifies that you are the holder of a valid driver’s license in your country of origin

International drivers license are issued by the AAA (or AA in NZ), in 1997 they were paper based and you had to supply a passport photo to go on it, when you use them ( if you get pulled over or to hire a car) you also have to use your own country of Origin Drivers License for proof, an International Drivers license is not a legal document on its own.


The International Driving Permit (IDP), often (and incorrectly) referred to as International Driving License, is a document that, along with your valid home driver's license, allows you to legally drive a motor vehicle while abroad.

I am so confused over how RB got an Aus drivers license only using a FR international one, or how Marion could have got one in Florabella's name with out having an Australian one. Have the police missed it in their "search"

 

[KiwiNZ]

I've also been wondering why, if she dropped like a stone as she claimed, did she still here his love letter?

some people just keep everything, my friend still has her teenage diary's and every valentines day card, from 30 years ago.

she may have really love him, or love the person he was portraying himself to be, when people get catfished, they still love the person they thought they were dating, it is like that person died once they find out and they still carry a torch for them.

I am so glad she kept it, AC reading it out was gold lol

 

[mishy66]

Just listened to the podcast interview with MC and I have to agree that she sounds genuine when asked about Florabella Remakel. She could have just hung up but seemed willing to try and help. If she wasn't aware of RB's scam with Marion, the only hint to connect RB to the questioning would have been the mention of Australia. But I'm also keeping in mind that she WAS an actress.

And the fact that an Australian crew are contacting her with a name that is exactly the same as her ex's.
Hanging up would only bring suspicion to her and she may well have wanted to hear what information they had.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Maybe he takes them overseas primarily as a mean to better secure their trust. No reason to suspect he’s not serious/able to buy a school overseas/start a new life. JO wasn’t on to him even after he abandoned her in UK. Wasn’t until she found her documents missing that she realized something was wrong. The trip overseas probably offers a lot in terms if credibility, trust & emotional investment in the fairy tale.

I also believe travelling through various villages and towns (often rural) across South East England that are unfamiliar to the victim in such a short period of time is to disorientate them in some way too.

He is also close to airport and ferry transport links to mainland Europe to help aid his ‘escape’ back to Australia.

I think the sole purpose for taking the women overseas was to increase their vulnerability. It got them out of their comfort zones and forced them to build trust with him (by default) because he was all they had there. It also took them away from family and friends, isolating them so as to enable his control and coercion - much like a domestically violent relationship - and ensured they wouldn’t be close to or be seen by people who would ask about them and their well-being, risking the women accidentally letting “the cat out of the bag” and raising the suspicion of their loved ones, potentially ruining “the plan” of RB. It was a huge risk having MB return to her community, but one he was willing to take due to being moreso motivated by the money… and if anything went bad or there were threats of anyone turning sour or informing friends/family, he could simply “get rid” of them… which he did in my opinion.

 

[mishy66]

Maybe this helped

 

[Carovb5]

@Eyespywithmylittleeye no there isn’t much to find in Belgium on Marions case.

I don’t know who asked, but i sure can try getting it more out there by sending it to a few media.

Unfortunately we only have sporadic truecrime shows instead of the big weekly ones other countries have. We have ‘Faroek’. I’ll start with sending it to them tomorrow…

 

[hoodunnit]

Marion tries to access her money via Barclays and finds she cannot because her account is still in the name of Barter...and this will apply to her accounts in Aus too.

See, I can't get my head around this. SURELY, MB would have had at least one card for the Barclays account so she could make purchases and/or withdraw cash at ATMS. If you were going travelling you wouldn't be popping into Barclays every 5 minutes to get cash out (unless needing a substantial amount). Or am I missing something?

 

[BonnieB]

Funny. I was thinking the exact same thing today. THIS is the $64,000 Question, @Meligator. Maybe the key to everything. How does Marion's story fit JO's?

Here's my take: the big idea was to have the Australian money available to Marion in Europe. Candy from a babe. Not documents but nice, cold hard cash. The Big Sting. That way, RB could propose a school to buy or a yacht to sail the Mediterraena, or a newlywed house in Luxembourg to buy with Marion's ready cash. (While his is tied up in some other legal venture, he explains. . .) RB will takes the money, vanish, and Marion is left with nothing and no legal means of going after RB.

[ So the Barclay's is aligned with the Australian bank, so the idea is Marion could have withdrawn all her money through Barclay's.]

So, Marion changes her name, as suggested, it's all good! He's got her in Europe where he wants her. Now he can tell her there's an amazing deal to purchase, they need the cash for the deal. BUT a hiccup. Marion can't withdraw her Australian funds from the Barclays as RB had planned. Either there is a limit on withdrawals or the new name has screwed things. RB is angry at Marion, and the patina begins to wear off. RB tells Marion she must return to Australia to withdraw the funds immediately or they'll miss the big deal! Marion complies. Arrives in Australia to withdraw funds or set straight the bank setup so she can withdraw from Europe, planning it will take days -- BUT she can't arrange it. Either the name change has screwed up the banking situation or the way she deposited the money in the high-earning account. Marion's (really RB's) only option is slow withdrawals. Time drags by. RB waiting and waiting to get his hands on all the $$.

Meantime, Marion begins to weary of the whole thing. She' runs a few errands. Tries to kill time. She's alone, handing money over to a man who is increasingly impatient and cruel, and she begins to doubt everything. Who does she call? She has no one to share this horrible situation with. Where to begin?

And meantime, RB knows he's screwed up. He didn't think of everything. Now Marion's back in Australia where he doesn't really want her. Of course, he can't blame himself, so he blames Marion. It's a perfect storm once he has the money. Or maybe just part of the money. Perhaps the charade of a fake Marion does happen but it's after she's dead and RB can't resist draining out every last penny. His wife is called in to perform, and she does.

Pretty much the same theory I've been working on @MrsEmmaPeel. Now, just to fill in the details; the car, where they/Marion stayed, the Medicare card and where is Marion?

 

[BonnieB]

See, I can't get my head around this. SURELY, MB would have had at least one card for the Barclays account so she could make purchases and/or withdraw cash at ATMS. If you were going travelling you wouldn't be popping into Barclays every 5 minutes to get cash out (unless needing a substantial amount). Or am I missing something?

I'm sure she did, but perhaps in order to transfer large amounts from Australia to UK, she may have needed additional Barter ID (passport etc)

 

[Meligator]

See, I can't get my head around this. SURELY, MB would have had at least one card for the Barclays account so she could make purchases and/or withdraw cash at ATMS. If you were going travelling you wouldn't be popping into Barclays every 5 minutes to get cash out (unless needing a substantial amount). Or am I missing something?

The way I understood at the inquest, she didn’t have an actual Barkelay account. It was just a forwarding address. The money was still technically in her colonial account. Withdrawals were limited to ATM daily limits. International transfers would have had to be done in person from the bank in AU. Sounded like that was pretty standard at the time, so unlikely RB would expect she could travel overseas and then have her money transferred to UK once there.

If RB was involved in providing the Rye address, then maybe the purpose wasn’t to get the money to Rye, but instead to get info on her accounts (account numbers/statements) from bank mail forwarded to that address?

 

[hoodunnit]

The way I understood at the inquest, she didn’t have an actual Barkelay account. It was just a forwarding address. The money was still technically in her colonial account. Withdrawals were limited to ATM daily limits. International transfers would have had to be done in person from the bank in AU. Sounded like that was pretty standard at the time, so unlikely RB would expect she could travel overseas and then have her money transferred to UK once there.

If RB was involved in providing the Rye address, then maybe the purpose wasn’t to get the money to Rye, but instead to get info on her accounts (account numbers/statements) from bank mail forwarded to that address?

Righto. Got it.

 

[mishy66]

If DH claims they went to Tasmania because of a sick uncle and there is no sick uncle — this seems the most overt (and provably false) lie implicating DH. But sometimes people use the term Uncle imprecisely (to refer to an older distant cousin or great uncle, for example).

It is interesting that he mentioned his sister in law discussing the pod cast b/c she (I believe) was living in Byron bay around the time Marion was withdrawing money there. If DH was involved (or at least aware), was the whole family?

I tend to think RB was a one man show and DH got very comfortable not asking any questions, but an overt lie about an Uncle in Tasmania would be harder to dismiss.

Married over 45 years, husband flying OS numerous times a year, never asks where he is going or who he is staying with, never questions his 'family' - she says she lived with them for 2 years - so never calls them to speak to her husband while he is there seeing them, never queried where the money was coming from to pay his airline tickets throughout the year - must have a great accountant to turn a blind eye to money coming in and going out all while on 2 pensions...., how does he get to the airport - "he doesn't have a car, or drive" she says but he has a dozen licenses, they don't own a computer they both say but he knows there are thousands of women on the internet, they didn't know about the podcast but her sister tells them about it....., he has over 30 name changes and she doesnt know about it?, he comes into Aust when they met under Fredi David but she knows he is Willy Wouters -
AC: "what was his name when you met him on that trip - "willy wouters"
but has always called him Ric, why? So she DOES know at least 4 aliases he is using, Willy Wouters, Fredi David, Ric Blum and Frederick deHedervary, BUT has never questioned it? She was with him when he was arrested and
found with the passport FdeH.


She says he worked in her parents coffee lounge - he wouldnt work a day in his life so pretty sure that is another lie
Covering for who knows what. She lied about the car saying it was for her daughter and was sold within 3 months because of a gearbox issue - why lie about that? Why not just say it was passed to her then the son. WEIRD thing to lie about!

Diannes evidence was that she didn't know about Marion until Police came knocking on the door.

His was: I told my wife and Marion I didn't want this charade to go on…I stopped the relationship because I was married with children - I told my wife I was cheating on her with Marion -

 

[mishy66]

I'm sure she did, but perhaps in order to transfer large amounts from Australia to UK, she may have needed additional Barter ID (passport etc)

I have to agree - if she put the $20k transferred to Barclays UK through CBA before she left, June 1997, the bank would have told her how to access it.

 

[mishy66]

Righto. Got it.

Marion also had an account with Barclays bank in London, with about $20,000 that hasn’t been touched.

 

[mishy66]

The way I understood at the inquest, she didn’t have an actual Barkelay account. It was just a forwarding address. The money was still technically in her colonial account. Withdrawals were limited to ATM daily limits. International transfers would have had to be done in person from the bank in AU. Sounded like that was pretty standard at the time, so unlikely RB would expect she could travel overseas and then have her money transferred to UK once there.

If RB was involved in providing the Rye address, then maybe the purpose wasn’t to get the money to Rye, but instead to get info on her accounts (account numbers/statements) from bank mail forwarded to that address?

Marion also had an account with Barclays bank in London, with about $20,000 that hasn’t been touched.

 

[KateM]

Maybe RB didn't even get to UK and meet MB? She is in UK, he is in mainland Europe 'visiting family'. They are in contact by phone. Marion tries to access her money via Barclays and finds she cannot because her account is still in the name of Barter...and this will apply to her accounts in Aus too. RB advises her to go back to Aus for a short time to sort out her finances. RB meanwhile also flies back to Aus as this trip has not gone to plan, except for the 'visiting family' aspect and all the other things he recollected so clearly (!). They meet up in Aus and something goes badly wrong for MB.
Conflicting opinions I know, but assuming MB returns to Aus, it can only be to enable access to her money. Even if she rumbled RB, her money was in the name of MB and he couldn't access it alone.

The fact that Marion visited places that RB had lived/visited, suggests that he was in the UK with her.

 

[mishy66]

Missing Marion: latest updates - Rye News

While in Australia, Marion taught in The Southport School (TSS) in Queensland and in 1995 or 1996 a teacher from the UK, Susie Cooper, went to The Southport School and met Marion as part of a teacher exchange programme.

These exchanges usually lasted one year and it is believed Susie had returned to the UK before Marion’s trip. It is possible that Marion made contact or met up with Susie when she went to the UK, they had got on well and Marion mentioned to a friend that Susie was a good contact to have when she went to the UK.

Has there ever been anymore follow up with her teacher exchange person Susie?

 

[KateM]

I think the sole purpose for taking the women overseas was to increase their vulnerability. It got them out of their comfort zones and forced them to build trust with him (by default) because he was all they had there. It also took them away from family and friends, isolating them so as to enable his control and coercion - much like a domestically violent relationship - and ensured they wouldn’t be close to or be seen by people who would ask about them and their well-being, risking the women accidentally letting “the cat out of the bag” and raising the suspicion of their loved ones, potentially ruining “the plan” of RB. It was a huge risk having MB return to her community, but one he was willing to take due to being moreso motivated by the money… and if anything went bad or there were threats of anyone turning sour or informing friends/family, he could simply “get rid” of them… which he did in my opinion.

100%

 

[mishy66]

The fact that Marion visited places that RB had lived/visited, suggests that he was in the UK with her.

It could well be he suggested those places to visit as she also loved some of the historical places of the area.
He could have settled her into a place he knew well and went off to 'do his family business' .

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes it was followed up and from memory she said that she hadn't heard from Marion

I would be happy to be corrected.

Has there ever been anymore follow up with her teacher exchange person Susie?