Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Deleted member 249471]

IIRC post traumatic stress disorder was mentioned. However, I have had PTSD in the past but I recovered without medication but after counselling. I would never have thought to go on a pension. What else did he have wrong with him?

It’s really hard to get a permanent disability pension AND carer! My assumption is that RB would’ve tried getting it for his accident/limp but if that failed, he’d try anything on the ‘typically approved’ list.

PTSD has to be on the list as Veterans need it.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Fantastic! The six new full-length episodes released today summarise the entire case, rather than having to listen to the previous 40+ episodes. It’s basically a podcast within a podcast.

We’ve been asking for a summary for ages!

I think this will help get the story heard further and wider as it’s so much easier to consume.

Fingers crossed it gets picked up by other true crime creators, gets spread all over the internet, and new leads come from it!

 

[cortina]

Fantastic! The six new full-length episodes released today summarise the entire case, rather than having to listen to the previous 40+ episodes. It’s basically a podcast within a podcast.

We’ve been asking for a summary for ages!

I think this will help get the story heard further and wider as it’s so much easier to consume.

Fingers crossed it gets picked up by other true crime creators, gets spread all over the internet, and new leads come from it!

yes, I'm really glad summary has been released...not only for those new to the case, but because, if you want to check on something, you don't have to. wade through lots of original episodes

 

[mishy66]

Le Courrier Australien is not a QLD paper. It is an Australian paper as its name says. So it would have been available in QLD.

Le Courrier Australien is the oldest foreign newspaper operating in Australia since 1892, and has readers following their news in Australia, France, Canada, Belgium, and New Caledonia. The English version of the site has also just been rebranded as LCANews.com with the hopes of making it easier for English readers.

Le Courrier Australien is now available in 3 languages

In their 130th year of operation, Le Courrier Australien has announced the launch of its newspaper in a third language

www.facci.com.au

AC did ask Blum if he had placed an Ad in the QLD paper also.....possibly eluding to the fact that there was no way Marion would have answered his Ad UNLESS he also placed the same one in a QLD paper.

An Ad was placed in Feb of 1994 by a Mr Pierre H de Gaye, (in french )located in Corinda QLD
MAN 54 years old, academic
living in Brisbane, location
excellent economy, looking for
French lady speaking English,
frank and dynamic, to explore
possibility of living together; widow or
divorced acceptable, no objection
children if adults and independent.
Write and send photo to Mr. Pierre
H. de GAYE, P.O. Box 241,
CORINDA, Queensland 4075.

Corinda is just near another address he was using


The Ad placed in Dec 1994 NSW by him using Remakel was placed 3 YEARS before she met Blum ( verified by SL)
At that time school had closed for holdiays and MB was in a relationship with GE and the following year was still with GE travelling with him to Norfolk Is.


The point I am making is I dont think Marion responded to ANY Ad he placed in any newspaper, Le Courrier Australien or otherwise.

He used this response at the inquest to deflect where, when and how they actually did meet.

 

[Getro callum]

I wonder in this case if Marion simply believed some type of ruse that in order to travel with RB, she needed to use this 'disguise' because of his high level secret work, as per stories he'd told before about working for the UK embassy. Maybe it was just intended as a temporary identity for their joint travels, in her mind. And make it look as if they are a married couple when they check into places together. Why did she not join the dots that this would leave her in trouble accessing her own bank accounts and paperwork affairs?

Effectively seems was RB was going to abandon Marion in the UK where she was *only* known as Florabella Remakel? She may have had her hair cut and coloured so at that point anyone looking for Marion in the UK is off to a non-starter, not the correct name and not the same look.

Then he could use her MB identity in Australia to strip her of everything because no doubt he had taken hold of all her MB documents and accounts details - kept in 'storage' or put in a safe deposit locker in Australia by him before they left.

After perpetrating the swindle, if it ever came to light and a link made to him, he would claim all the documents had been stolen by someone else so any theft was perpetrated by someone else, not him. He might say all the secrecy was because he was having an affair. But how could it ever be linked to him in the first place?

Marion would simply come back to Australia and find out everything she ever had has been taken from her and report it to the police that a Mr FR has done this terrible thing to her, she would only have a description of his physical looks and a whole load of fake life description he'd fed her with. Even if she saw him in the street he would just say wow you're crazy if someone stole your stuff it certainly wasn't me. If the police even so much as interviewed him, he'd say he was hoping to leave his wife for Marion but it didn't work out and the rest of it is all crazy talk of a spurned woman.

A sure fire reason that RB would have to get rid of Marion and not just do his usual is because she had proof and she was on to him.

She definitely didn’t seem like the type that would just accept she’s been swindled and move on..

 

[mishy66]

But were these fake passports or passports issued legally under fake names… I know that getting an Irish passport was not half as strict as getting an Australian one.

When he travelled overseas at the time Marion did, he was using his passport of Richard Lloyd Westbury, a name he travelled on many times since 1992. He had already changed his name legally to FdeH back in 1992, so he wasn't Westbury anymore, but he travelled on that passport illegally.

 

[mishy66]

I wonder if he has even yet been reported to ATO/CentreLink yet! Perhaps one of you would like to do it???

Why dont you @Estelle

 

[mishy66]

The journey from Heathrow to Tunbridge Wells is not that straightforward for someone on their own in an unfamiliar country and would probably have involved the London Underground too.

I believe RB was with her by this point and Sally’s first communication home to Sally came from Tunbridge Wells and significantly was on the Hotel Narita notepaper.

I believe Marion was in the same position as JO when arriving in England and did not know where she would be staying or travelling whilst there. I don’t think Marion played any part in organising her stay.

I can’t prove it but from Marion’s comments she was probably initially staying at The Swan Hotel in The Pantiles in Tunbridge Wells. There is a large branch of Barclays Bank not that far away and the small branch in Rye (now closed) 30 miles away from Tunbridge Wells makes little sense at the beginning of her visit.

Totally agree @Lord Peter Flimsy

 

[Deleted member 249471]

An Ad was placed in Feb of 1994 by a Mr Pierre H de Gaye, (in french )located in Corinda QLD
MAN 54 years old, academic
living in Brisbane, location
excellent economy, looking for
French lady speaking English,
frank and dynamic, to explore
possibility of living together; widow or
divorced acceptable, no objection
children if adults and independent.
Write and send photo to Mr. Pierre
H. de GAYE, P.O. Box 241,
CORINDA, Queensland 4075.

That’s a VERY interesting ad. As is the name Pierre H. de GAYE

I remember hearing a name like ‘gay’ ‘gayon’ or ‘gayen’ in the inquest. We took a very liberal guess on his alias spellings and settled on:
Charles Guyon / Gaeton
Guy de Vio / de Veo

 

[Getro callum]

I reckon he definitely persuaded Marion to put all her documentation in a safety deposit box or secure locker somewhere, most likely in the FNR & FNMR name. Then he can always access it as FNR and if necessary claim it's his wife's paperwork, not that anyone would be likely to ask questions. As I believe he persuaded Marion she / they would be gone on travels for a full year with no need for access to it, it would have been the easiest for him to persuade her to leave it somewhere in Australia as opposed to doing stuff at Heathrow or another airport or safe place but all options are possible IMO.

This is definitely possible… but if she did have problems accessing more of her money at Barclays surely the paperwork she needed would be at Heathrow .. to me the return trip flight / smells of RB still…… but it would be interesting if she had caught him out o/s or something happened mid journey home..

Even if he did leave her there alive or deceased…how would he have got someone to take her flight so quick after her phone call?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The original post from Feb 2022 says that
Pierre H. de GAYE ad was also from the Le Courrier Australien:

Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #7

Here’s a link to Trove, ad dated 10 Feb 1994: Advertising - Le Courrier Australien (Sydney, NSW : 1892 - 2011) - 10 Feb 1994

Le Courrier has headquarters in Sydney but is circulated nation-wide. The inquest asked if RB placed similar ads like the Monsieur Remakle one in pepers specific to QLD and Gold Coast. He said he might have. But no one has ever found any. But that doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

 

[mishy66]

That’s a VERY interesting ad. As is the name Pierre H. de GAYE

I remember hearing a name like ‘gay’ ‘gayon’ or ‘gayen’ in the inquest. We took a very liberal guess on his alias spellings and settled on:
Charles Guyon / Gaeton
Guy de Vio / de Veo

Yep

Weird right.

This person has been discussed over time and some of us found that this person 'married in Ashby Folville UK to a Thai bride ( teacher) and settled in BALI!

So many coincidences.....

 

[ruby925]

The journey from Heathrow to Tunbridge Wells is not that straightforward for someone on their own in an unfamiliar country and would probably have involved the London Underground too.

I believe RB was with her by this point and Sally’s first communication home to Sally came from Tunbridge Wells and significantly was on the Hotel Narita notepaper.

I believe Marion was in the same position as JO when arriving in England and did not know where she would be staying or travelling whilst there. I don’t think Marion played any part in organising her stay.

I can’t prove it but from Marion’s comments she was probably initially staying at The Swan Hotel in The Pantiles in Tunbridge Wells. There is a large branch of Barclays Bank not that far away and the small branch in Rye (now closed) 30 miles away from Tunbridge Wells makes little sense at the beginning of her visit.

yes, makes sense that RB was with MB initially, all ties in. I was under the impression that Rye was an administrative Barclays base for the overseas arrangements with other banks and Marion could use any branch to withdraw money. Maybe (hopefully) that is clarified in the summary episodes just dropped, I do remember there was a lot of discussion about the Barclays account status, but I can't find the definitive info.

 

[Getro callum]

Yep

Weird right.

This person has been discussed over time and some of us found that this person 'married in Ashby Folville UK to a Thai bride ( teacher) and settled in BALI!

So many coincidences.....

Maybe RB noticed the ad and copied the wording for his ad…being a forger a simple copy for his own ad would have saved time and effort…

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Fantastic! The six new full-length episodes released today summarise the entire case, rather than having to listen to the previous 40+ episodes. It’s basically a podcast within a podcast.

We’ve been asking for a summary for ages!

I think this will help get the story heard further and wider as it’s so much easier to consume.

Fingers crossed it gets picked up by other true crime creators, gets spread all over the internet, and new leads come from it!

This is great as it means I can now share the link with people who aren't aware of this case and they don't have to spend a whole year getting up to speed

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

AC did ask Blum if he had placed an Ad in the QLD paper also.....possibly eluding to the fact that there was no way Marion would have answered his Ad UNLESS he also placed the same one in a QLD paper.

An Ad was placed in Feb of 1994 by a Mr Pierre H de Gaye, (in french )located in Corinda QLD
MAN 54 years old, academic
living in Brisbane, location
excellent economy, looking for
French lady speaking English,
frank and dynamic, to explore
possibility of living together; widow or
divorced acceptable, no objection
children if adults and independent.
Write and send photo to Mr. Pierre
H. de GAYE, P.O. Box 241,
CORINDA, Queensland 4075.

Corinda is just near another address he was using


The Ad placed in Dec 1994 NSW by him using Remakel was placed 3 YEARS before she met Blum ( verified by SL)
At that time school had closed for holdiays and MB was in a relationship with GE and the following year was still with GE travelling with him to Norfolk Is.


The point I am making is I dont think Marion responded to ANY Ad he placed in any newspaper, Le Courrier Australien or otherwise.

He used this response at the inquest to deflect where, when and how they actually did meet.

This sounds like him! Has it been sleuthed? Is he ever known with this name?

Why does he want a French lady speaking English? Is it because he needs to somehow set the scam up to look like he has a French speaking wife (is this something to do with MC as a sidekick perhaps? What is MC's primary language? Or do they have French as a shared language)?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

When he travelled overseas at the time Marion did, he was using his passport of Richard Lloyd Westbury, a name he travelled on many times since 1992. He had already changed his name legally to FdeH back in 1992, so he wasn't Westbury anymore, but he travelled on that passport illegally.

So Marion left the country in a name nobody had ever heard of and RB left the country in a name that was not the Remakel one and also would supply no link to either Marion or her FNMR name.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

yes, makes sense that RB was with MB initially, all ties in. I was under the impression that Rye was an administrative Barclays base for the overseas arrangements with other banks and Marion could use any branch to withdraw money. Maybe (hopefully) that is clarified in the summary episodes just dropped, I do remember there was a lot of discussion about the Barclays account status, but I can't find the definitive info.

We’ve discussed and clarified this repeatedly over the past 15 threads / 4 years. Here’s a refresher for anyone who needs it, because I know it’s hard to keep track of it all

The $15k that remained in her account was in a high interest earning account, created at State Bank, Ashmore branch (Marion’s usual bank), on the same day her mortgage was discharged.

The contact address she gave for the account was an address in Rye UK. When you search the address, it’s the site where the old Rye Barclays used to be in 1997.

That’s it. It’s not suggested she transferred any money to Barclays Rye.

It does suggest however, that she already knew she was going to Rye when the sale of her house came through.

It’s interesting nonetheless because she usually gave her friend Leslie’s address as a contact/forwarding address because she had no fixed address while traveling.

The $80k+ that was drained, was in her ‘everyday account’ also at State Bank, Ashmore branch.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

This is definitely possible… but if she did have problems accessing more of her money at Barclays surely the paperwork she needed would be at Heathrow .. to me the return trip flight / smells of RB still…… but it would be interesting if she had caught him out o/s or something happened mid journey home..

Even if he did leave her there alive or deceased…how would he have got someone to take her flight so quick after her phone call?

I guess if she went back to Australia suddenly after RB departed, it would be for various possible reasons -

1) in a state of high suspicion to find out what the heck was going on with her so called new life partner and soulmate;

2) to sort out financial paperwork which once in the UK she realised needed verification and ID documents that were left in storage in Australia, oblivious to the fact that RB had in fact already abandoned her, as he had made an excuse to be away for a while;

3) at the insistence of RB to return (separately) to sort out documentation and finances or some other 'lure';

add more?

 

[BabeBlues]

This is the reason why I have the theory he used MB to help hatch a plan for his future prospects with his 'singing testicles' lover.

Somewhere in all this is MC and her reasoning for producing all the correspondence that was so damning to him at the inquest.

Their friendship was years long. They were still corresponding even when the DeH's had moved to Tasmania - this was years after she looked after '"a little boy who looked like frederick" and says she stopped the relationship when she found out he was married .... yeah right.


IMO he hatched a plan to swindle FR with the help of MC and used Marion as the scapegoat. Somewhere along the way it all turned to *advertiser censored* and MC had to find a way out of a disaster so she set up to out him and remove herself from any potential criminal activity. That letter was used to embarrass him and let everyone see he had used her too.

She played him at his own game. Neither will implicate the other now.

I think there is something in this too @mishy66