Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[Estelle]

Day 7 of the inquest, the discussion on dates of WW and DDH on the ship from Southampton etc. When AC established 1970 was impossible, WW settled on sailing Jan71 and arriving Mar71 with DDH being 19 and WW divorced from Ilona. WW stayed 6 weeks with DDH and family then flew back to Europe via Tahiti and Paris, with the intention of returning to Australia but then he was arrested in Rouen, Jun71. This is MOO, but this timeline makes sense to me and is typical of his pattern.
There are no Passenger Arrival Records at all for the first six months of 1971 on the NAA website, so this may explain why WW and DDH cannot be found arriving that year. The records probably exist of course but not digitised.
At this point WW already had residence status in Australia in WW name, but stated he wanted to be known as FDH, and probably introduced himself to DDH as FDH.

Why do people want to believe RB's and DhD's lies when our timelines composed from the NAA website prove them to be WRONG?
THEY ARE COMPULSIVE LIARS! IMO

 

[KeenSleuth17]

IMO there is still time for their children to take the stand. The fact that a lawyer is representing the children as well makes me think that they could have valuable evidence.

Yes but for it to be the same solicitor representing them, I imagine their views would have to be aligned with and not opposing DdH .. or it would be a conflict of interest. It’d be interesting to hear them giving evidence but I think it might just be DdH jr and RB jr

 

[LouLouSleuth]

Yes I have also researched a lot re this family. There is definitely discrepancies in his account. The whole story about the daughter having an alias is just bs in my opinion. Maybe the daughter connected with him to enquire about the selling of her families coins etc knowing that he knew her father from the past.

Is there anything you can share with us about them?

 

[ruby925]

Why do people want to believe RB's and DhD's lies when our timelines composed from the NAA website prove them to be WRONG?
THEY ARE COMPULSIVE LIARS! IMO

Sorry, I must have missed the info where your timelines prove they could not have arrived in Spring of 1971.

 

[Estelle]

Yes but for it to be the same solicitor representing them, I imagine their views would have to be aligned with and not opposing DdH .. or it would be a conflict of interest. It’d be interesting to hear them giving evidence but I think it might just be DdH jr and RB jr

I'm not sure what "jr" means. Does it mean junior?

I also think that their children could be re-interviewed after the first part of the inquest and maybe things could change then.

 

[LouLouSleuth]

RB's kids in an elite swim squad 6 days a week for years would be over $3,000 a year. Not doable on invalid and carers pension while renting a house.

Could they get scholarships for this type of thing? He said the daughter tried out for the Atlanta Olympic swim squad so must have been very good.

 

[Procrastinator]

That NAA website has a lot of info re RB!

 

[LouLouSleuth]

Yes but both of them have said they never had a computer at all.
Of course they did, if they can afford for him to take trips OS for 40 yrs and move houses a dozen times, send the kids to competitive swim meets while still in school in the 90's, of course they could afford a computer. imo.

DdH said she did have a computer “for a little while”

 

[Estelle]

Sorry, I must have missed the info where your timelines prove they could not have arrived in Spring of 1971.

1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity

 

[centred]

I also predict that he could throw DdH under the bus at some stage. He's now claimed that he left the ad around the house and she saw it. But she has denied knowing anything about Marion until they were on their way home in the car from the police station.

IMO

This was bought up by him the next day in the courtroom because he heard DH evidence and the questions she was asked and he is preempting questions to him about certain details . example :
She was asked "Did you ever receive a phone call from a woman looking for him " she said NO .
There were several other questions put to her that gave him pause for thoughts and to believe he had to come up with new details to explain it all away .

Can i just ask if there is document proof of any marriage besides his marriage to D ?

 

[LouLouSleuth]

yes sorry I shouldn't have assumed that all people had computers in the 90s.

I should have clarified that many families had computer access quite easily from the late 80's. Going on personal experience here , everyone I knew had computers in homes in the 80s - then there is public library access.

Given that RB had a long history of various dealings and that they had teenagers living through the 80s and 90s it would be VERY feasible to assume that they had a computer. IMO

But someone did point out earlier they did have a computer but RB didnt use it. I will have to revisit that long drawn out testimony of DdeH.

Most of us would go to the local library to use their computers. You could bring your own disks to save your work.

 

[centred]

1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity

these were dates at the end of 1971 after he returned from Australia ? Correct ?

 

[Estelle]

Could they get scholarships for this type of thing? He said the daughter tried out for the Atlanta Olympic swim squad so must have been very good.

The Atlanta Olympics were held in July 1996. The daughter was 15yo.

 

[Estelle]

IMO

This was bought up by him the next day in the courtroom because he heard DH evidence and the questions she was asked and he is preempting questions to him about certain details . example :
She was asked "Did you ever receive a phone call from a woman looking for him " she said NO .
There were several other questions put to her that gave him pause for thoughts and to believe he had to come up with new details to explain it all away .

Can i just ask if there is document proof of any marriage besides his marriage to D ?

Nobody has seen any documents/Marriage Certificates as all the other marriages took place overseas. But the way Casselden spoke about them and RB didn't deny them, I assumed they took place.

 

[Estelle]

these were dates at the end of 1971 after he returned from Australia ? Correct ?

No after he left Australia in February, 1970 by plane and went to Belgium with Ilona and baby on the same flight.

There is no record of his arriving here again in 1971 or departing in 1971.

 

[LouLouSleuth]

I agree. Documents and clothes. Victims all had dark hair at the time and same body shape as DdH.

Did you notice how he described Marion as wearing old-fashioned clothes with her hair in a fringe (he didn't use that word as he couldn't remember what it was called). Most men I know wouldn't have been so descriptive.

Yes!!! I found it very strange that he had such a descriptive way of talking about her style of clothes and hair. Very strange

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I also think that their children could be re-interviewed after the first part of the inquest and maybe things could change then.

Not really. The inquest is done. They're not adding additional evidence and witnesses. It's only been extended to finish RB's testimony and cross examine him, so Coroner can make her findings

As opposed to the last time when it was postponed to follow new Remakel leads, and add new evidence and witnesses.

Police should already have the kid's statements. If testifying would've been useful to the court, they would've been included in the schedule to begin with.

So, there's no need to bring the kids in now, to try and see if they contradict their parents, or catch parents out in a lie. That's the Coroner's job. And we all know the parents are lying.

If something changes, and the kids suddenly have the urge to fess up to something important they didn't reveal in their initial interview, they'll go straight to police or call in a tip, and RB will be arrested.

The inquest has to end at some point. Essentially, there's no point bringing the kids in if they are just going to repeat what the parent's said. And if they have something explosive to say, then police will step in, pause inquest for a few years and start a criminal trial. IMO

 

[KeenSleuth17]

IMO there is still time for their children to take the stand. The fact that a lawyer is representing the children as well makes me think that they could have valuable evidence.

Yes but for it to be the same solicitor representing them, I imagine their views would have to be aligned with and not opposing DdH .. or it would be a conflict of interest. It’d be interesting to hear them giving evidence but I think it might just be DdH jr and RB jr

I'm not sure what "jr" means. Does it mean junior?

I also think that their children could be re-interviewed after the first part of the inquest and maybe things could change then.

Yep I just meant mini-me’s of the parents.

 

[LouLouSleuth]

Does anyone remember when the tamborine property was sold, I've searched here but can't find it.

I was listening to the latest podcast so which said it was 20 acres big. Sounds HUGE to me, where did that money go to?? Plus the money for the house. I think he’s just pissed away thousands and thousands over the years IMO

 

[ruby925]

1971-6-23 WW.Arrested Rouen, Discharged 21/5/1974
1971-12-09 Willy Wouters Rouen France, sentenced to 4 years prison for fraud, forgery, confidence tricks, giving false identity

yes, i got that Estelle, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have entered Australia around Mar71, left approx 6 weeks later and got arrested in France in Jun71?