Are these current valuations? I think the configurations of the properties at Mottynsden have changed over the years - in particular, I think the lodge was more than one apartment. I remember looking at the historic records for this, and thinking that what they lived in was probably not what we see today as the Lodge. I’ll see if I can find them.
Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #17
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mishy66
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I went back to the start of all the names I had listed at the time of the war period with RC and his work for the resistance - this part of the saga is key IMO
Maria C born 1913 - marries Desire Jean-Pierre Joseph David born 1905 Gelinden, Limburg, Belgique
Death 17 March 1943 Doornik, België - 37 yrs old
a car driver in Templeuve France ( job as per newspaper at time of death)
I am now wondering if this is actually a car rally driver.....after some searching on Wouters
1935
DD goes to prison for 15 days for stealing a ferret and it says he is a Mason worker
1938
A man named Desire David and Maria C's father get into a blew and Charles is fined - see attachment
Coppenolle Charles, shopkeeper in Ramegnies-Chin, accused of having insulted Désiré David, is condemned with a suspended sentence of 1 year, with a fine of 70 francs.
KBR - Belgicapress
AKA born JULY 1939
Three years after AKA is born FD arrives: ( 3 yrs is a long time if you are married prior to 1939 to have a baby.....given most married women start having children the minute the ring is on the finger in those days) - something amiss here IMO
F DAVID Born JUNE 1942
In 1942, Desire & Maria DAVID were living in Templeuve, France when Freddy was born.
(Approx 22kms from Tournai and 18kms from Lille)
The following year 1943
D. David is born
The same year as MC husband DD dies.
7 years later:
The stepfather of AKA:
Andre / "abel" Wouters - the mystery stepfather who seems to have no footprint in the newpapers as far as dates of his birth/ death - aside from the period when he marries MC at age '""26'""" in 1950 - an army 'volunteer' - who marries a woman around 10 yrs his senior with 2 small children and " one in an orphanage" + "her legs blown off" ( IF you believe AKA) - Something right there tells me that is cow manure.
Andre Wouters - @10 yrs younger than MC and 15 yrs older than AKA
I found this: ( the whole Chronicles are a fasinating read!)
Loose translation:
The history of the municipal elections continues with a third article concerning the years of Jules Messinne (1946-1958), supplemented by the memories of André Wouters about the creation of the municipal social service.
An interview with Guy Bianchi evokes his memories of
youth as well as his professional life at Watermael-Boitsfort, a career entirely devoted to heating techniques in buildings.
After more than a century of liberal mayorship in Watermael-Boitsfort (in fact since the fall of the old regime), for a socialist mayor to be elected in this residential commune, the demographic upheavals linked to the creation du Logis-Floréal (increase from 10,000 to 19,000 inhabitants between 1921 and 1946), and also obviously those caused by the war and the immediate post-war period ("spirit of resistance", war damage, need for social progress , coal crisis.....
Jules MeSSinne was not without merit in this context. Already co-initiator-animator of the creation of Floréal from 1922, and municipal councilor since 1932, he was resistant in the underground press.
Despite the political ferment at the national level, the Communals of November 24, 1946 took place calmly in Watermael-Boitsfort, under the aegis of the new communal secretary, Hubert Derwa (Pierre Thelismar having been dismissed at the Liberation).
15 municipal councilors were therefore elected: -6 socialists: senator amédée DoutrePont, Marcel GrÉgoire, Maurice Marchal, Jules Messinne, Joseph VerHULst and Jean HUsDens, the latter withdrawing in favor of Gustave Van HerCk.
And 5 catholics: Camille Dauchot, Frédéric De raeyMaeker, alphonse Lemmens, adrienne MoUrLon and Jean WaeGeMans
3 liberals: Pierre CraPs, Maurice De Wilder and Jacques-Henri Wiener, and one communist: Jules-oscar aVaUx
The death of J. Verhulst in September 1954, to his replacement by Mr. Marchal as alderman......
......In september 1957, the karrenberg school was finally inaugurated....
Its first director was Roger De wilder, already director of the old school - September 1958, initiated by the common memories of former prisoners of war or the development of a municipal social service by Maurice Marchal, which could change the "electoral wind".....
Page 5
Creation of a municipal social service excerpts from an interview with André Wouters, honorary municipal receiver.
André Wouters was hired as a temporary editor and assigned to civil status on August 30, 1945.
He left for military service on September 2, 1946.
On his return from military service in 1947, he was appointed temporary editor in the service of the public assistance and social works.
In 58-59, he acted as head of the service of social works.
He is also responsible for the passport service.
On December 22, 1960, he was appointed deputy head of the social works office with effect from January 1, 1961.
Following the death, on March 17, 1963, of the municipal secretary, Mr Hubert Derwa, Charles De SMet acting head of the finance department, was appointed acting municipal secretary.
André Wouters succeeded him in Finance, with effect from January 1, 1964.
He was appointed head of division with effect from May 1, 1968.
From 1947 to 1954, Joseph “Jef” Verhulst was alderman in charge of social works. Following his death on August 7, 1954, Maurice MARCHAL replaced him on September 3, 1954 and was in office until the end of 1958.
“I finished my humanities in July 1945 à l'athénée de Bruxelles. My father wanted me to continue studying Romance philology at university. He would have liked me to become curator at the royal library albert where he worked. He had an adoration for his boss, Mr Turner who lived at 11 Maisons Avenue de la Forêt Bruxelles , near avenue de l'Uruguay.
I learned that an employee was being hired at the Town Hall. I introduced myself and started my career in the municipal administration. Me, I had an overflow of Greek and Latin.
As I had my diploma at the end of humanities, I was hired as an editor at the Civil Registry headed by Mr. CoPPÉe. The first thing he said to me was: "Sit down in front of the typewriter and type Commune de Watermael-Boitsfort." I typed it all day. The next morning I had to type Year 19...etc until the job was done right. For eight days, I did just that, type snatches of sentences to familiarize myself with the Belgian keyboard"
Then I went to the registry office to receive the birth, death and marriage certificates. This was my job until I left for military service.
I leave for military service. On my return from military service, I was summoned by Mr. Messinne who told me: “I would like to create a social work service. do you want to get into it?"
I'm giving you three months to study the laws concerning the new service: pensions, family allowances, invalidity,...
In three months, the service will be opened.
You will have the help and support of Mr. Maurice MARCHAL.
You can question him.
Mr Marchal was Father Marchal (André's father).
This is how I opened the office of social works, after three months of learning the laws and many interviews with Mr. Marchal.
A year later, I had to write the report for the Municipal Council. It was a success, we had transferred an astronomical sum from the state coffers, hundreds of thousands of francs for pensions, family allowances,... I continued until 1963, when the death of the secretary communal raised all the staff one box in the hierarchy.
(excerpt from a testimony recorded at Watermael)
extrait d’un témoignage enregistré à Watermael
HE IS ALSO MENTIONED HERE IN CHRONICLE 41
https://www.hisciwab.be/docs/chroniques/chronique_41.pdf
.....I became a municipal employee. At the time, I was in the Finance Department and therefore managed its administrative file with Théo CLoSE and André WoutERS, who will later become Communal Collector.
Maria C born 1913 - marries Desire Jean-Pierre Joseph David born 1905 Gelinden, Limburg, Belgique
Death 17 March 1943 Doornik, België - 37 yrs old
a car driver in Templeuve France ( job as per newspaper at time of death)
I am now wondering if this is actually a car rally driver.....after some searching on Wouters
1935
DD goes to prison for 15 days for stealing a ferret and it says he is a Mason worker
1938
A man named Desire David and Maria C's father get into a blew and Charles is fined - see attachment
Coppenolle Charles, shopkeeper in Ramegnies-Chin, accused of having insulted Désiré David, is condemned with a suspended sentence of 1 year, with a fine of 70 francs.
KBR - Belgicapress
AKA born JULY 1939
Three years after AKA is born FD arrives: ( 3 yrs is a long time if you are married prior to 1939 to have a baby.....given most married women start having children the minute the ring is on the finger in those days) - something amiss here IMO
F DAVID Born JUNE 1942
In 1942, Desire & Maria DAVID were living in Templeuve, France when Freddy was born.
(Approx 22kms from Tournai and 18kms from Lille)
The following year 1943
D. David is born
The same year as MC husband DD dies.
7 years later:
The stepfather of AKA:
Andre / "abel" Wouters - the mystery stepfather who seems to have no footprint in the newpapers as far as dates of his birth/ death - aside from the period when he marries MC at age '""26'""" in 1950 - an army 'volunteer' - who marries a woman around 10 yrs his senior with 2 small children and " one in an orphanage" + "her legs blown off" ( IF you believe AKA) - Something right there tells me that is cow manure.
Andre Wouters - @10 yrs younger than MC and 15 yrs older than AKA
I found this: ( the whole Chronicles are a fasinating read!)
Loose translation:
The history of the municipal elections continues with a third article concerning the years of Jules Messinne (1946-1958), supplemented by the memories of André Wouters about the creation of the municipal social service.
An interview with Guy Bianchi evokes his memories of
youth as well as his professional life at Watermael-Boitsfort, a career entirely devoted to heating techniques in buildings.
After more than a century of liberal mayorship in Watermael-Boitsfort (in fact since the fall of the old regime), for a socialist mayor to be elected in this residential commune, the demographic upheavals linked to the creation du Logis-Floréal (increase from 10,000 to 19,000 inhabitants between 1921 and 1946), and also obviously those caused by the war and the immediate post-war period ("spirit of resistance", war damage, need for social progress , coal crisis.....
Jules MeSSinne was not without merit in this context. Already co-initiator-animator of the creation of Floréal from 1922, and municipal councilor since 1932, he was resistant in the underground press.
Despite the political ferment at the national level, the Communals of November 24, 1946 took place calmly in Watermael-Boitsfort, under the aegis of the new communal secretary, Hubert Derwa (Pierre Thelismar having been dismissed at the Liberation).
15 municipal councilors were therefore elected: -6 socialists: senator amédée DoutrePont, Marcel GrÉgoire, Maurice Marchal, Jules Messinne, Joseph VerHULst and Jean HUsDens, the latter withdrawing in favor of Gustave Van HerCk.
And 5 catholics: Camille Dauchot, Frédéric De raeyMaeker, alphonse Lemmens, adrienne MoUrLon and Jean WaeGeMans
3 liberals: Pierre CraPs, Maurice De Wilder and Jacques-Henri Wiener, and one communist: Jules-oscar aVaUx
The death of J. Verhulst in September 1954, to his replacement by Mr. Marchal as alderman......
......In september 1957, the karrenberg school was finally inaugurated....
Its first director was Roger De wilder, already director of the old school - September 1958, initiated by the common memories of former prisoners of war or the development of a municipal social service by Maurice Marchal, which could change the "electoral wind".....
Page 5
Creation of a municipal social service excerpts from an interview with André Wouters, honorary municipal receiver.
André Wouters was hired as a temporary editor and assigned to civil status on August 30, 1945.
He left for military service on September 2, 1946.
On his return from military service in 1947, he was appointed temporary editor in the service of the public assistance and social works.
In 58-59, he acted as head of the service of social works.
He is also responsible for the passport service.
On December 22, 1960, he was appointed deputy head of the social works office with effect from January 1, 1961.
Following the death, on March 17, 1963, of the municipal secretary, Mr Hubert Derwa, Charles De SMet acting head of the finance department, was appointed acting municipal secretary.
André Wouters succeeded him in Finance, with effect from January 1, 1964.
He was appointed head of division with effect from May 1, 1968.
From 1947 to 1954, Joseph “Jef” Verhulst was alderman in charge of social works. Following his death on August 7, 1954, Maurice MARCHAL replaced him on September 3, 1954 and was in office until the end of 1958.
“I finished my humanities in July 1945 à l'athénée de Bruxelles. My father wanted me to continue studying Romance philology at university. He would have liked me to become curator at the royal library albert where he worked. He had an adoration for his boss, Mr Turner who lived at 11 Maisons Avenue de la Forêt Bruxelles , near avenue de l'Uruguay.
I learned that an employee was being hired at the Town Hall. I introduced myself and started my career in the municipal administration. Me, I had an overflow of Greek and Latin.
As I had my diploma at the end of humanities, I was hired as an editor at the Civil Registry headed by Mr. CoPPÉe. The first thing he said to me was: "Sit down in front of the typewriter and type Commune de Watermael-Boitsfort." I typed it all day. The next morning I had to type Year 19...etc until the job was done right. For eight days, I did just that, type snatches of sentences to familiarize myself with the Belgian keyboard"
Then I went to the registry office to receive the birth, death and marriage certificates. This was my job until I left for military service.
I leave for military service. On my return from military service, I was summoned by Mr. Messinne who told me: “I would like to create a social work service. do you want to get into it?"
I'm giving you three months to study the laws concerning the new service: pensions, family allowances, invalidity,...
In three months, the service will be opened.
You will have the help and support of Mr. Maurice MARCHAL.
You can question him.
Mr Marchal was Father Marchal (André's father).
This is how I opened the office of social works, after three months of learning the laws and many interviews with Mr. Marchal.
A year later, I had to write the report for the Municipal Council. It was a success, we had transferred an astronomical sum from the state coffers, hundreds of thousands of francs for pensions, family allowances,... I continued until 1963, when the death of the secretary communal raised all the staff one box in the hierarchy.
(excerpt from a testimony recorded at Watermael)
extrait d’un témoignage enregistré à Watermael
HE IS ALSO MENTIONED HERE IN CHRONICLE 41
https://www.hisciwab.be/docs/chroniques/chronique_41.pdf
.....I became a municipal employee. At the time, I was in the Finance Department and therefore managed its administrative file with Théo CLoSE and André WoutERS, who will later become Communal Collector.
Attachments
mishy66
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Australia - Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #16
This licence thing is weird. 1994??! Why would Marion get this done in 94 when her name wasn’t legally florabella yet? I think this is RB creating this licence and name… perhaps in preparation for his victim A bit of future planning? Totally
www.websleuths.com
Just place holding this previous post re N.Y. / the surfing era of the 60's and the red cedar story of AKA
More info I found that is fasinating!
mishy66
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"The primary reason to use an alias is to complicate law enforcement efforts to ascertain the identity of a person wanted for questioning in the course of a criminal investigation".
We have a psychopath doing just that.
Looking back over the info on AKA and his tall tale to J.O. of owning a 20000 acre red cedar plantation in Nymboida and the fact that N.Y. had his plantation property there, and milled his own cedar trees to build his house, and AKA knowing the surfing world thanks to his relatives and friends of that time, I managed to get my hands on one of NY books and was that an eye opener.
Unfortunately the web of people in the life of NY and that of AKA is not allowed to be discussed here as none of it is related directly to the MB case.
BUT if you do a lot of searching you will find it all – mind blowing.
Aside from that, one of N.Y. books has some fascinating details that convinces me yet again that the NAMES AKA chooses for his aliases ARE NOT random.
But are in fact ALL connected to someone who has either been associated with crime, so the web spans far in other directions to keep people / authorities from searching through facts of his own criminal case or, the names are associated with dignitary.
He reads, he researches, he is connected to a name via association with someone he meets and thus begins his ‘new surname”.
Just pointing out here some of the obvious aliases and those names associated to other people in his life that we have found so far. - ALL these surnames have real, innocent people behind them but also have a web to AKA’s crimes.
Coppenolle
David
Wouters
DeHedervary
Westbury
Dupont
Remakel
MJReid
BLUM
In 1999 JO testified she traveled with AKA and that he was using the name BLUM
At the inquest we hear that he actually didn’t change his name to BLUM officially until 2014, so he had been using that name for many years prior - no doubt he changed it because of all the interest gathering into MB disappearance.
In 1998 N.Y. publishes another of his books – one that outlines the Nymboida Cedar plantation and the house he built from the trees on the property which was eventually destroyed by fire.
It also sheds light on an interesting time in NY life when he is asked to participate in a movie about surfing. He remarks the ‘producer’ of the movie who was from the USA was coming out to film part of the surfing scene from Australia along with other parts of the world.
In part -
“…. they came out the following week and we did shoots around Barrenjoey, Lennox Heads, and they shot a lot of surfing footage with me, and *** and *** ( he names his surfing friends)….. I should have been suspicious when the cameraman just up and left before we got to Lennox Heads but we were all in too deep by then. Then I was flown to California and stayed with the Director of the film and his brother Lowell. I felt something wasn't right with this movie deal but I worked hard writing and re writing the closing segment of the film…. The brothers agreed to give me $15 000 as soon as I finished and I was led to believe the deal was with 20th Century Fox. I was young and stupid, finished my work on the film, asked for the payment and they said the money was forthcoming.
A year later I got a lawyer to contact 20th century fox and they had never heard of the directors. My lawyer pursued the matter and found the man selling used cars in Florida.”
No payment was ever made.
surfresearch
1969
The Fantastic Plastic Machine,
Eric Blum.
letterboxd.com
Eric Blum and brother Lowell never made another film - but we do have another criminal
AND just like that AKA has a new surname
We have a psychopath doing just that.
Looking back over the info on AKA and his tall tale to J.O. of owning a 20000 acre red cedar plantation in Nymboida and the fact that N.Y. had his plantation property there, and milled his own cedar trees to build his house, and AKA knowing the surfing world thanks to his relatives and friends of that time, I managed to get my hands on one of NY books and was that an eye opener.
Unfortunately the web of people in the life of NY and that of AKA is not allowed to be discussed here as none of it is related directly to the MB case.
BUT if you do a lot of searching you will find it all – mind blowing.
Aside from that, one of N.Y. books has some fascinating details that convinces me yet again that the NAMES AKA chooses for his aliases ARE NOT random.
But are in fact ALL connected to someone who has either been associated with crime, so the web spans far in other directions to keep people / authorities from searching through facts of his own criminal case or, the names are associated with dignitary.
He reads, he researches, he is connected to a name via association with someone he meets and thus begins his ‘new surname”.
Just pointing out here some of the obvious aliases and those names associated to other people in his life that we have found so far. - ALL these surnames have real, innocent people behind them but also have a web to AKA’s crimes.
Coppenolle
David
Wouters
DeHedervary
Westbury
Dupont
Remakel
MJReid
BLUM
In 1999 JO testified she traveled with AKA and that he was using the name BLUM
At the inquest we hear that he actually didn’t change his name to BLUM officially until 2014, so he had been using that name for many years prior - no doubt he changed it because of all the interest gathering into MB disappearance.
In 1998 N.Y. publishes another of his books – one that outlines the Nymboida Cedar plantation and the house he built from the trees on the property which was eventually destroyed by fire.
It also sheds light on an interesting time in NY life when he is asked to participate in a movie about surfing. He remarks the ‘producer’ of the movie who was from the USA was coming out to film part of the surfing scene from Australia along with other parts of the world.
In part -
“…. they came out the following week and we did shoots around Barrenjoey, Lennox Heads, and they shot a lot of surfing footage with me, and *** and *** ( he names his surfing friends)….. I should have been suspicious when the cameraman just up and left before we got to Lennox Heads but we were all in too deep by then. Then I was flown to California and stayed with the Director of the film and his brother Lowell. I felt something wasn't right with this movie deal but I worked hard writing and re writing the closing segment of the film…. The brothers agreed to give me $15 000 as soon as I finished and I was led to believe the deal was with 20th Century Fox. I was young and stupid, finished my work on the film, asked for the payment and they said the money was forthcoming.
A year later I got a lawyer to contact 20th century fox and they had never heard of the directors. My lawyer pursued the matter and found the man selling used cars in Florida.”
No payment was ever made.
surfresearch
1969
The Fantastic Plastic Machine,
Eric Blum.
The Fantastic Plastic Machine (1969)
Documentary involving the adventures of a group of surfers, narrated by Jay North.
letterboxd.com
Eric Blum and brother Lowell never made another film - but we do have another criminal
AND just like that AKA has a new surname
Attachments
Last edited:
vivienbee
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If we tried to pitch RB's web of crimes as a detective novel publishers would laugh us out of business because the story is so labyrinthine and unbelievable.
Over the course of this case unfolding my mind has been well and truly scrambled like an egg.
(Great work as always, Mishy!)
And he signed his name ‘Eric’ in ‘that’ letter to Monique."The primary reason to use an alias is to complicate law enforcement efforts to ascertain the identity of a person wanted for questioning in the course of a criminal investigation".
We have a psychopath doing just that.
Looking back over the info on AKA and his tall tale to J.O. of owning a 20000 acre red cedar plantation in Nymboida and the fact that N.Y. had his plantation property there, and milled his own cedar trees to build his house, and AKA knowing the surfing world thanks to his relatives and friends of that time, I managed to get my hands on one of NY books and was that an eye opener.
Unfortunately the web of people in the life of NY and that of AKA is not allowed to be discussed here as none of it is related directly to the MB case.
BUT if you do a lot of searching you will find it all – mind blowing.
Aside from that, one of N.Y. books has some fascinating details that convinces me yet again that the NAMES AKA chooses for his aliases ARE NOT random.
But are in fact ALL connected to someone who has either been associated with crime, so the web spans far in other directions to keep people / authorities from searching through facts of his own criminal case or, the names are associated with dignitary.
He reads, he researches, he is connected to a name via association with someone he meets and thus begins his ‘new surname”.
Just pointing out here some of the obvious aliases and those names associated to other people in his life that we have found so far. - ALL these surnames have real, innocent people behind them but also have a web to AKA’s crimes.
Coppenolle
David
Wouters
DeHedervary
Westbury
Dupont
Remakel
MJReid
BLUM
In 1999 JO testified she traveled with AKA and that he was using the name BLUM
At the inquest we hear that he actually didn’t change his name to BLUM officially until 2014, so he had been using that name for many years prior - no doubt he changed it because of all the interest gathering into MB disappearance.
In 1998 N.Y. publishes another of his books – one that outlines the Nymboida Cedar plantation and the house he built from the trees on the property which was eventually destroyed by fire.
It also sheds light on an interesting time in NY life when he is asked to participate in a movie about surfing. He remarks the ‘producer’ of the movie who was from the USA was coming out to film part of the surfing scene from Australia along with other parts of the world.
In part -
“…. they came out the following week and we did shoots around Barrenjoey, Lennox Heads, and they shot a lot of surfing footage with me, and *** and *** ( he names his surfing friends)….. I should have been suspicious when the cameraman just up and left before we got to Lennox Heads but we were all in too deep by then. Then I was flown to California and stayed with the Director of the film and his brother Lowell. I felt something wasn't right with this movie deal but I worked hard writing and re writing the closing segment of the film…. The brothers agreed to give me $15 000 as soon as I finished and I was led to believe the deal was with 20th Century Fox. I was young and stupid, finished my work on the film, asked for the payment and they said the money was forthcoming.
A year later I got a lawyer to contact 20th century fox and they had never heard of the directors. My lawyer pursued the matter and found the man selling used cars in Florida.”
No payment was ever made.
surfresearch
1969
The Fantastic Plastic Machine,
Eric Blum.
The Fantastic Plastic Machine (1969)
Documentary involving the adventures of a group of surfers, narrated by Jay North.
Eric Blum and brother Lowell never made another film - but we do have another criminal
AND just like that AKA has a new surname
VisitorDog
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Hello, do we have the dates we think he lived in Burwash? Just having a look through records.
mishy66
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From the MB FB page - The years Blums were living in Burwash UK, were between 1982 - 1984. They then moved back to Aust.
mishy66
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vivienbee
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What makes you doubt that it's him? I definitely think that it's him because it looks so much like the other photos (esp. the 1980 pic which I'm sure is him), even the more aged ones to me. Whether that's his actual age is another matter -- he may have used a younger photo for his passport.
[EDIT: If you look at the 1969 pic and the 1980 pic (even zoomed out) you can see this his nose looks like it has a slight curvature because he has a dent on (his) right hand side. This makes it look off centre and seems consistent across the pics. If you have no idea what I mean let me know and I'll try to create a visual.]
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mishy66
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yes thank you @vivienbee
the one on the 1969 passport and of him in the 1980 newspaper do look alike
I just cant see him being 30 in that 1969 photo
and I can't see a scrap of resemblance in his kids - they probs think thank god!
vivienbee
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You're right, he def doesn't look 30 in the photo. I'm not sure why you'd want to use a photo that doesn't match well with your current age bracket (potentially raising more questions than I'm sure he'd want) but even now a lot of places let you just return a photo with some forms and there's nothing to truly verify that it's even you. (Which actually, as I'm thinking about it, is...bad?) I'm in the UK and I renewed my passport recently with a new photo and as far as I recall I just had to sign the back of it. I'm sure in the 60s it was v lax.
mishy66
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There is a LOT of information found in regard to his adventures in the FLANDERS / Oost-Vlaanderen area of Belgium I have realised...
He seemed to be in this area from his earlier years - first the boat incident found by that clever sleuth and then many of his crimes associated to the area - Knokke-Heist.
How did it happen that the MC lineage we all followed come about earlier in the case?
Was there proof that he was associated to this family?
He seemed to be in this area from his earlier years - first the boat incident found by that clever sleuth and then many of his crimes associated to the area - Knokke-Heist.
How did it happen that the MC lineage we all followed come about earlier in the case?
Was there proof that he was associated to this family?
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VisitorDog
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Was that the one I found about the Normandie that had piston issues, with a Willy Wouters as captain? I struggled to find anything else out about that. I could find the eventual owner and when it was decommissioned, but not more about him as a captain, frustrating!
VisitorDog
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I think Wouters must be quite a common name. It’s interesting how many times it comes up in the late 50’s in the UK, related to boat troubles. I think they’re coincidences, but interesting ones and all so close together. A dangerous time to be a seafaring Wouter.
August 58 - Floris Wouters a 23 year old Dutch seaman fined for smuggling 1000 cigarettes into Wisbech.
Sept 58 - a Jan Olaf Lindstrom is questioned in relation to the murder of an Andre Wouters on a Swedish boat in Swansea.
Jan 59 - Willy Wouters who was the captain of the Normandie that had mechanical troubles off the coast of the Isle of Wight in Jan 59.
August 58 - Floris Wouters a 23 year old Dutch seaman fined for smuggling 1000 cigarettes into Wisbech.
Sept 58 - a Jan Olaf Lindstrom is questioned in relation to the murder of an Andre Wouters on a Swedish boat in Swansea.
Jan 59 - Willy Wouters who was the captain of the Normandie that had mechanical troubles off the coast of the Isle of Wight in Jan 59.
mishy66
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Yes! Thankyou for mentioning! I couldnt find the thread to tag you.
Knokke-Heist / Flanders area features very strongly in AKA swindles etc. I wouldnt be at all surprised that this is him. The captain of a drug boat perhaps
mishy66
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Yes Wouters is very common. It is frustrating, and no doubt WHY he chose the name at the time.
Aside from all his crimes mentioned on WS - his April 1957 theft with his mates in Wallonia ( actually this just reminded me of something - I will try to find it) ,
the car accident in 1965 with mate and wives,
his April 1969 scam /cheques case, again in Flanders area
I also found a few shady Wouters too.....
In 1964 - a WILLY WOUTERS who rides in Motorcross Races in Braine-le-Château ( Wallonia )
This is around the time he says he was "pulverised" by a randy horse
Then the 1969 / 1970 drug bust where small plastic bags were smuggled to New York in the toilets of international jet liners by ring leader Christian David, a 41‐year‐old Frenchman,known among friends as "le Beau Serge," "Eduardo" and "JeanPierre' and his team of crooks.
The heroin was shipped in hidden compartments in commercial aircraft, in expensive European automobiles, in fish cans, in valises and taped to the bodies of couriers.
Banks in Switzerland and Brussels were allegedly used to conceal assets and facilitate the transfer of funds...... accused Belgian Willie Wouters who lives in France awaiting trial…….
Then there is an Andre Wouters ....
1949 Ransart ( the place AKA says AW is from) - in fisticuffs on NYE with someone
THEN APRIL 1966 - Andre Wouters – jailed for torture and drugging woman
( I had to cut it to fit within the attachment size)
Attachments
Thinking Marion and RB might have visited some attractions in Grafton and surrounding towns, I've managed to view the 1997 Visitors Book for Grafton Museum. Unfortunately I did not find any entries that were of interest. Last year I already searched the 1997 Visitors Book for Armidale's City Tour. I'm hoping to access some other records shortly.
HinterlandObserver
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Great idea!
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