Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

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Procrastinator said:
Below is combined list of aliases from Laura Richards latest post on Insta (idk why but not able to copy link) and a previous WS post by @Liselle (maybe typos by me, but hope not and open to being corrected)

Anthony GRECH
Atilla DUPONT
Bernard DUPONT
Christopher DUPONT
BOUTEN or BOUTON (?)
Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY
Chaim DE HEDERVARY
Chaim Frederick DAVID
Chaim DAVID
Charles GUYON
Christopher DU PONT
Christopher STEIN
Fernand Nocolas REMAKEL
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
Franck MELAN
Frank MELON
Freddy DAVID
Fredy DAVID
Ricky DAVID
David FREDDY
Frederick David DE HEDERVARY
Frederick DE HEDERVARU
Frederick DEHEDERVARY
Frederick DE-HAVERDERY
Frederic DE-HAVERDERY
Frederike DE HEDERVARY
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
FLEMING (last name}
Gaetan LE BOURISCOT
Guy DIVIO
Philippe DINT
Remy LAJOY
Roger LAZONEY
Roger LAUZONEY
Richard BLUM
Ric BLUM
Richard Lloyd WEST
Rick WEST
Ric WEST
Richard WESTBURY
Richard Lloyd WESTBURY
Rich RICHARD
Rick RICHARD
Tony GRECCA
Willy WOUTERS
Wouters WILLY
Willy COPPENOLE
Willy DAVID COPPENOLLE
Will COPPENOLLE
Will DAVID-COPPENOLLE
WILSON (last name)
Zebdel ZILLI (?)
Click to expand...
That’s going to be one hell of a headstone one day
 
mishy66 said:
Agree totally. Someone else used that PP IMO .

Except how could it be Marions money to purchase the car. No money taken out of her account until the 18 August - 2 withdrawals on same day
The car was $4K from my notes - I think he said $2K at inquest ? (That's a lot of Aust money to carry in her wallet all this time while OS if she paid for it in cash)

DATES:

18 AUGUST = 2 WITHDRAWALS FROM BYRON BAY NSW

21 AUGUST = 1 WITHDRAWAL FROM BURLEIGH HEADS QLD - AN HOUR AWAY from BB

POSSIBLY STAYED IN QLD THE NIGHT OF 21ST - THIS WAS A THURSDAY

TO HAVE ANOTHER WITHDRAWAL ON THE 22ND ON THE FRIDAY

22 AUGUST = 1 WITHDRAWAL FROM BURLEIGH HEADS QLD

THEN DRIVES BACK TO NSW ON THE 23RD

23 TO 28TH AUGUST = WITHDRAWALS EVERYDAY = BYRON BAY BANK NSW

ON 1 SEPTEMBER 1997 HER CREDIT CARD WAS USED ONE TIME ONLY

BALANCE OF MONEY $80 000 WITHDRAWN FROM BANK ON 15 OCTOBER 1997


Too much driving for Marion to be doing this incognito


Also I keep going back to this:
WHY would he close this business after all those decades at the very time MB "is about to fly back into Australia"
Willy Coppenolle Business Registered 1974
Discontinued - August 1 1997
1 Aug 1997 - the day of SL last phone call with MB when she said she was in Tunbridge Wells
Click to expand...
Procrastinator said:
This has to be significant!?
Click to expand...
brjakj said:
Which business is that?
Click to expand...
It is one of the old ones we found a couple of yrs back. I think Eyespywithmylittleeye found it??

Registered entity data | CBE Public Search

kbopub.economie.fgov.be kbopub.economie.fgov.be
 
Procrastinator said:
Below is combined list of aliases from Laura Richards latest post on Insta (idk why but not able to copy link) and a previous WS post by @Liselle (maybe typos by me, but hope not and open to being corrected)

Anthony GRECH
Atilla DUPONT
Bernard DUPONT
Christopher DUPONT
BOUTEN or BOUTON (?)
Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY
Chaim DE HEDERVARY
Chaim Frederick DAVID
Chaim DAVID
Charles GUYON
Christopher DU PONT
Christopher STEIN
Fernand Nocolas REMAKEL
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
Franck MELAN
Frank MELON
Freddy DAVID
Fredy DAVID
Ricky DAVID
David FREDDY
Frederick David DE HEDERVARY
Frederick DE HEDERVARU
Frederick DEHEDERVARY
Frederick DE-HAVERDERY
Frederic DE-HAVERDERY
Frederike DE HEDERVARY
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
FLEMING (last name}
Gaetan LE BOURISCOT
Guy DIVIO
Philippe DINT
Remy LAJOY
Roger LAZONEY
Roger LAUZONEY
Richard BLUM
Ric BLUM
Richard Lloyd WEST
Rick WEST
Ric WEST
Richard WESTBURY
Richard Lloyd WESTBURY
Rich RICHARD
Rick RICHARD
Tony GRECCA
Willy WOUTERS
Wouters WILLY
Willy COPPENOLE
Willy DAVID COPPENOLLE
Will COPPENOLLE
Will DAVID-COPPENOLLE
WILSON (last name)
Zebdel ZILLI (?)
Click to expand...
Scary to think there is likely a victim for every alias....!
 
Procrastinator said:
Below is combined list of aliases from Laura Richards latest post on Insta (idk why but not able to copy link) and a previous WS post by @Liselle (maybe typos by me, but hope not and open to being corrected)

Anthony GRECH
Atilla DUPONT
Bernard DUPONT
Christopher DUPONT
BOUTEN or BOUTON (?)
Chaim Frederick David DEHEDERVARY
Chaim DE HEDERVARY
Chaim Frederick DAVID
Chaim DAVID
Charles GUYON
Christopher DU PONT
Christopher STEIN
Fernand Nocolas REMAKEL
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
Franck MELAN
Frank MELON
Freddy DAVID
Fredy DAVID
Ricky DAVID
David FREDDY
Frederick David DE HEDERVARY
Frederick DE HEDERVARU
Frederick DEHEDERVARY
Frederick DE-HAVERDERY
Frederic DE-HAVERDERY
Frederike DE HEDERVARY
Francis David DE HEDERVARY
FLEMING (last name}
Gaetan LE BOURISCOT
Guy DIVIO
Philippe DINT
Remy LAJOY
Roger LAZONEY
Roger LAUZONEY
Richard BLUM
Ric BLUM
Richard Lloyd WEST
Rick WEST
Ric WEST
Richard WESTBURY
Richard Lloyd WESTBURY
Rich RICHARD
Rick RICHARD
Tony GRECCA
Willy WOUTERS
Wouters WILLY
Willy COPPENOLE
Willy DAVID COPPENOLLE
Will COPPENOLLE
Will DAVID-COPPENOLLE
WILSON (last name)
Zebdel ZILLI (?)
Click to expand...
There must be even more aliases with illegal passports for the times AKA travelled in and out of Australia with no arrival or departure cards discovered by the authorities.
 
Liselle said:
There must be even more aliases with illegal passports for the times AKA travelled in and out of Australia with no arrival or departure cards discovered by the authorities.
Click to expand...
Yes I reckon a lot more aliases not yet publicly disclosed !

For other aliases not disclosed there must be a few interesting ones! Maybe connected to already publicly known cases in the media, but can't disclose because it implicates others ???

I reckon we only know a tenth of his criminal behaviour - SL would have so much that cant be publicly shared. JMO

A few of those names on list are just double ups with various letter swaps and a few spelling errors. The whole family swap letters in their names.

Zabdiel Zillig - used the last name of the Northern NSW couple he took the stamp collection from and gave them that weird Alice Bailey book.

Abdiel was also the name used in Q by Adam C, when he asked Diane if she knew the name Abdiel Florent Wouters.

The Bouten / Bouton one is Willy as first name.
Monique went to great lengths to spell it out with an "O". But Lux journos, I think it was, spelt it with an "E"

AH letter to Monique talks about a "Willy" , her friend that he is working with. How many can there be!!?? Is this just Monique shifting the goal posts ?? Nothing to see here, move all the dirt across to AH.
In any case, much more with what she knew. She even says the police questioned her the night she was with him and his criminal friends.
JMO
 
Also those names he changes legally within months of each other.


Known as FdeH, legally makes name change once again to RLW in July
By Dec he is legally changing it back to Willy Wouters.
WHY - WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LAST 6 MONTHS OF 1989

WHO ARE THE VICTIMS

Maybe he has heard Maria is dying and getting ready to come back into the family fold to gather up all the Coppenolle coins.

Maria dies Feb 1990

Maybe he heard the step father died and was moving in for a gain?

His brother dies about this time , maybe he had something to do with it?

Has he been arrested yet?? :mad:
 
mishy66 said:
The Bouten / Bouton one is Willy as first name.
Monique went to great lengths to spell it out with an "O".

Sorry I have listened to this again and she spells it out as BOUTON and then says , it is a Belgium name

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I just went through two YouTube videos of the French and Flemish spoken alphabets and MC's vocal aligns more with the French pronunciation of "e". She says "er", but "o" in French and Flemish is a more clipped/short "oh". So IMO, @DerZuschauer has it correct as being "e". (p.s. I'm having a quiet day so had time to check :cool: )
 
Long day at the office :cool: I listened to 'Alice' on YouTube later and yes the "e" is pronounced "er"

MC is so hard to understand. She flips from one thing to another then you have AS interrupting her mid sentence; the journo for Spotlight at least let her talk.

Liselle said:
I just went through two YouTube videos of the French and Flemish spoken alphabets and MC's vocal aligns more with the French pronunciation of "e". She says "er", but "o" in French and Flemish is a more clipped/short "oh". So IMO, @DerZuschauer has it correct as being "e". (p.s. I'm having a quiet day so had time to check :cool: )
Click to expand...
 
mishy66 said:
The Bouten / Bouton one is Willy as first name.
Monique went to great lengths to spell it out with an "O".

Sorry I have listened to this again and she spells it out as BOUTON and then says , it is a Belgium name

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry to insist, but she doesn't. She clearly (to my ears, I admit) spells out B-O-U-T-E-N. (Note that she pronounces the fifth letter “E” very differently from the second letter “O”).

Let me explain.

MC is Luxemburgish. Her English, while not at all bad, has an accent, and that accent is also present when spelling out the letters. Don't expect “proper” English phonetic spelling as in “Bee, Ou, You, Tee, Eeh, Enn”.

Her native language Letzebuergesch is phonetically somewhere between German (not standard German but some West German dialect from the other side of the border) and French. So, pronunciation of letters is also a mix, for example “H” in German would be “Haa”, in French it would be “Ush” (as in “usher”; there is practically no “H” in French, hence it's called “mute h”). But in Letzebuergesch, “H” is “Hush”, because they sit right in the middle, so to speak. (Their grammar is also "mixed up", from the perspective of German and French readers / listeners. Example: In french it's "la place", female, in German it's "der Platz", male, in Letz it's "déi Plaz", female, but pronounced more German than French.)

So, where does that leave us? She says "Be, O, Ü [as the German Umlaut*], Te, E, En", all vowels short.
Or in IPA phonetic transcription: /be//o//y//te//ə//ɛn/

*As for the German Umlaut Ü - very hard to explain to English native speakers. I found this helpful equivalent: "like a Scottish person saying “grew”. Make the sound “ee” as in “cheese” and then make your lips into an “o” shape."

Yes, MC is indeed hard to understand, mostly because she's excited. And hence she's hard to interview. Not for me to say, but an interpreter might have helped, so she could have answered in Letz, German or French.
 
DerZuschauer said:
I'm sorry to insist, but she doesn't. She clearly (to my ears, I admit) spells out B-O-U-T-E-N. (Note that she pronounces the fifth letter “E” very differently from the second letter “O”).

Let me explain.

MC is Luxemburgish. Her English, while not at all bad, has an accent, and that accent is also present when spelling out the letters. Don't expect “proper” English phonetic spelling as in “Bee, Ou, You, Tee, Eeh, Enn”.

Her native language Letzebuergesch is phonetically somewhere between German (not standard German but some West German dialect from the other side of the border) and French. So, pronunciation of letters is also a mix, for example “H” in German would be “Haa”, in French it would be “Ush” (as in “usher”; there is practically no “H” in French, hence it's called “mute h”). But in Letzebuergesch, “H” is “Hush”, because they sit right in the middle, so to speak. (Their grammar is also "mixed up", from the perspective of German and French readers / listeners. Example: In french it's "la place", female, in German it's "der Platz", male, in Letz it's "déi Plaz", female, but pronounced more German than French.)

So, where does that leave us? She says "Be, O, Ü [as the German Umlaut*], Te, E, En", all vowels short.
Or in IPA phonetic transcription: /be//o//y//te//ə//ɛn/

*As for the German Umlaut Ü - very hard to explain to English native speakers. I found this helpful equivalent: "like a Scottish person saying “grew”. Make the sound “ee” as in “cheese” and then make your lips into an “o” shape."

Yes, MC is indeed hard to understand, mostly because she's excited. And hence she's hard to interview. Not for me to say, but an interpreter might have helped, so she could have answered in Letz, German or French.
Click to expand...
Yes I am agreeing with you and Liselle!
I am saying when I listened to a woman on youtube "Alice" she explained it well and then later I read Liselles comment and I realised that a lot of us here thought she was saying "O" - not just me :)
And we like to have all the facts once known.

So my comment above was YES I understand she was saying "E" !


( It doesn't help when I am also Irish/Scottish ancestry having to listen to her)

I agree they definitely needed a translator!

The mods should pin your post to the start of this thread for future reference !!
 
Last edited:
MC says to AS in that podcast interview in the episode Le Diabolique “one time, when he told me come to Australia” to which AS responds “so that is interesting” and then nothing? Is it badly edited?

Why did he want her to go to Australia? What was her response? Was this before or after she apparently found out about his wife from the phone kiosk call (take with large pinch of salt)?

So agree her interviews should have been done in her native tongue to avoid any possible misinterpretation and confusion. She is key a witness in this case.
 
Lord Peter Flimsy said:
MC says to AS in that podcast interview in the episode Le Diabolique “one time, when he told me come to Australia” to which AS responds “so that is interesting” and then nothing? Is it badly edited?

Why did he want her to go to Australia? What was her response? Was this before or after she apparently found out about his wife from the phone kiosk call (take with large pinch of salt)?

So agree her interviews should have been done in her native tongue to avoid any possible misinterpretation and confusion. She is key a witness in this case.
Click to expand...
Yes she interrupts a few times and the back ground noise for the interview was a joke.

AS also tries desperately to stop ER from finishing her sentence, numerous times, when ER discloses WW and IK arrived into Aust in SEPT 1969.... what was this?? We know they arrived in May. Was it what was on the document when ER went to the Embassy or did WW and IK fly in and out of Aust in 1969 under another alias?? Im pretty sure I heard on some media somewhere that IK had an alias.

Maybe AS is hoping to reveal these in the book??

Who knows.
2 + 2 equals 7 with her interviews.
 
Well I will certainly be pouring through that book looking for details. And coincidentally will be in the UK soon, although not near the places where Marion stayed. Will give me more context for her trip maybe.Although Lord Peter has been very helpful in that regard over the years.

Yes the MC-AS interviews are frustrating because a word here or there changes the meaning. Communication clarity is so important. MC seemed to flit around. Maybe she was difficult to get going and AS was able to wind her up. I wonder if the floodgates opened when MC realized AKA was in trouble (finally) and now she can say things but she still has a reputation to maintain with people around her so has to fudge the details. She might be on the periphery of crimes committed in Luxembourg. Just guessing here. Otherwise why be so evasive?…
 
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