GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #3

[Makara]

Well now that his online name is posted, he also uses lamant22 but a lot of stuff under this username has been wiped.

Now that it's here, I'll put money on the Daily Telegraph saying something about bipolar tomorrow.

Agreed Fruity, especially since DJK has mentioned that he is bipolar.

 

[Brightbird]

It will depend on how much the mental illness factored into what happened really wont it, like was the illness at the root of the murder, or was there a motivation which had nothing to do with the illness .. I agree, defence will likely try and say the illness was the cause of the crime ..

I agree. To be fair, a defence is always going to include possible mitigating factors whether the defendant has mental health issues or not. That's assuming DK pleads guilty and doesn't insist someone else did it.

 

[AJM86]

Thanks Ausgirl. Looking at the Oaks straight on, there are three exits onto Ben Boyd Road. MH could have exited from any one of them and may not have been aware that DJK was lurking nearby. Although I don't think that is the case.

View attachment 38124

I just can't get my head around the fact that DJK was actually in MH's unit and his bedroom. How did he gain entry without being invited? If MH didn't want him there and put up a struggle, why was he naked from the waist down? I just can't see DJK being able to de-pants MH before during or after the stabbing without MH putting up a fight.

Agreed. There's just something to it all that to me seems more prearranged, or at the very least they knew each other, not DJK stalking MH.

 

[Brightbird]

Thanks Ausgirl. Looking at the Oaks straight on, there are three exits onto Ben Boyd Road. MH could have exited from any one of them and may not have been aware that DJK was lurking nearby. Although I don't think that is the case.

View attachment 38124

I just can't get my head around the fact that DJK was actually in MH's unit and his bedroom. How did he gain entry without being invited? If MH didn't want him there and put up a struggle, why was he naked from the waist down? I just can't see DJK being able to de-pants MH before during or after the stabbing without MH putting up a fight.

Omg, I had forgotten the possibility that MH didn't invite DK into his flat. Now I have to put that back in my list of theories. Although police did say they thought DK was allowed in because of the cctv footage and no signs of forced entry. Maybe they have other evidence he was invited in :dunno:

From the bit at court today about DK needing to understand the implications of giving DNA it sounds like police haven't yet matched DK's DNA to any in MH's room or on his body. Only MH's DNA on DK's satchel and glasses.

 

[Strangeworld]

I can only imagine how many warning bells he set off at his first interview with the police. If what we are reading online and in MSM is correct, he would have presented as someone who is a bit off (definitely no reflection on people with mental illness or other disorders). I think I mentioned a while back that his mind is likely a messy mess and it's looking more and more like that. So much going on in his head.

I am all for some level of empathy when people with diagnosed disorders commit crimes, but not at the cost of putting society at risk. If a hospital is a better place for someone, so be it. But if it turns out that he has killed Morgan, he is a danger to others - and therefore should not be walking free. I wonder if he has been getting regular psychiatric treatment and if he is on medication? Noncompliance with treatment could indeed factor in here.

Head spinning from today's little findings!

 

[MsAnais]

I can only imagine how many warning bells he set off at his first interview with the police. If what we are reading online and in MSM is correct, he would have presented as someone who is a bit off (definitely no reflection on people with mental illness or other disorders). I think I mentioned a while back that his mind is likely a messy mess and it's looking more and more like that. So much going on in his head.

I am all for some level of empathy when people with diagnosed disorders commit crimes, but not at the cost of putting society at risk. If a hospital is a better place for someone, so be it. But if it turns out that he has killed Morgan, he is a danger to others - and therefore should not be walking free. I wonder if he has been getting regular psychiatric treatment and if he is on medication? Noncompliance with treatment could indeed factor in here.

Head spinning from today's little findings!

I wondered if he was having regular psychiatric treatment too.....the description of him as 'docile and slow' fits with somebody who is medicated.

But a lot of bipolar sufferers stop taking their medication as they don't like feeling flat and zombie-like compared to the thrill of the manic high. Would love to know.....

 

[fruity]

I wondered if he was having regular psychiatric treatment too.....the description of him as 'docile and slow' fits with somebody who is medicated.

But a lot of bipolar sufferers stop taking their medication as they don't like feeling flat and zombie-like compared to the thrill of the manic high. Would love to know.....

He described it as 'bipolar depression' so I'm putting money on Bipolar
2 rather than bipolar 1 (classic bipolar).

Bipolar II disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If this is the case, he wouldn't experience the same manic highs.

 

[Strangeworld]

He described it as 'bipolar depression' so I'm putting money on Bipolar
2 rather than bipolar 1 (classic bipolar).

Bipolar II disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If this is the case, he wouldn't experience the same manic highs.

Bipolar used to be known as manic depression, and some people still use the term interchangeably. He may have been getting these 2 terms mixed up, so instead of saying bipolar disorder, he said bipolar depression.

 

[Strangeworld]

I keep wondering when he slept. If he was hitting the café scene most days, buying and eating takeaways during the day, and working at night. I can't remember now if it said how often he worked? Maybe he slept early evening before his late shifts. Sleep can certainly impact on mood and the management of bipolar.

 

[Brightbird]

Also, I'm wondering if he did have another mental illness it might not have been obvious he had relapsed or was getting worse because of his Asperger's. Like perhaps a preoccupation had developed into a delusion. Would love to know if that ever happens for people with both an autism spectrum disorder and a psychotic illness. If he wasn't very engaged with people around him, who would notice if he became paranoid, had racing thoughts, grandiose ideas etc? Family and doctors might but even they miss things.

 

[MsAnais]

Also, I'm wondering if he did have another mental illness it might not have been obvious he had relapsed or was getting worse because of his Asperger's. Like perhaps a preoccupation had developed into a delusion. Would love to know if that ever happens for people with both an autism spectrum disorder and a psychotic illness. If he wasn't very engaged with people around him, who would notice if he became paranoid, had racing thoughts, grandiose ideas etc? Family and doctors might but even they miss things.

Good point! His world would have been very internalised - very few people, if any, would have had any idea what was going on in his mind, I'd imagine. The Asperger's would make him very insular.

And absolutely his thoughts could easily have escalated from preoccupations into full blown delusions. From what we've read of his online postings, he had a lot of strong emotion going on inside but I doubt anyone could see that externally. In all his photos he presents with very flat affect.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Thanks Ausgirl. Looking at the Oaks straight on, there are three exits onto Ben Boyd Road. MH could have exited from any one of them and may not have been aware that DJK was lurking nearby. Although I don't think that is the case.

View attachment 38124

I just can't get my head around the fact that DJK was actually in MH's unit and his bedroom. How did he gain entry without being invited? If MH didn't want him there and put up a struggle, why was he naked from the waist down? I just can't see DJK being able to de-pants MH before during or after the stabbing without MH putting up a fight.

I don't think DJK was lurking anywhere. IMO MH was waiting for someone, gave up and walked off, DJK came running after him and caught up at the lights. They then walked off together. Whatever may have been arranged will be revealed in the evidence. JMO

On the night in question, the kitchen hand allegedly worked at the Military Road cooking school, cleaning up after a private function on Saturday night, finishing at about 1am.

Security cameras outside the Oaks Hotel captured a man in chef's pants, carrying a satchel, running after Mr Huxley as he left the pub at 1.30am. It is alleged that man was Mr Kelsall and he caught up to Mr Huxley at a set of traffic lights outside a Thai restaurant.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/morgan-hu...application-20131015-2vjlk.html#ixzz2hmEBwKLV

SMH crime reporter Emma Partridge details what was on the cctv in this video-

http://media.smh.com.au/featured/huxleys-alleged-killer-faces-court-4830882.html

 

[sundaymorning123]

the magistrate is doing the right thing by directly making sure the defendant is being given his full rights of understanding the process
it will also let him soley communicate with the defendant giving him insight into how intellectually and mentally impaired he may be
in spite of the horror that has happend the defendant is still a person who has rights through the legal process and especially if they are suffering from an intellectual disability id say its standard court procedure for the magistrate to do
this disability the defendant was born with he had no choice in that its what his life chose for him i cant comment on whether he was provided with intervention for this in his past i have no idea
maybe people like this should have constant intervention from when they are first diagnosed not just as children but throughout their whole lives weekly with mental health teams
im sure we will find out more later on its easy to lash out but it doesnt change anything my question is who was responsible for his treatment and care??? i could make some other comments on his interests and hobbies which hardly seem appropriate for him to be doing with his problems most like made him worse but thats my opinion

 

[LegallyBrunette]

It will depend on how much the mental illness factored into what happened really wont it, like was the illness at the root of the murder, or was there a motivation which had nothing to do with the illness .. I agree, defence will likely try and say the illness was the cause of the crime ..

I very much doubt they would go down that path, it opens up all kinds of implications. It is not a complete defence, but if accepted, accused may be detained indefinitely in a forensic facility.
Also, it may be that some of the accused's behaviour following the murder would rebut the defence of mental illness. JMO - not implying anything specific.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Also the hearing to explain DNA to DJK .. is he having a hard time understanding how damning DNA evidence is?

The court heard a discussion over whether Mr Kelsall would need to appear before the court later on Tuesday to have the DNA procedure explained to him.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/morgan-hu...application-20131015-2vjlk.html#ixzz2hlUHP6c6

It was not a hearing, the police application for forensic procedures was adjourned to 2pm because His Honour wanted confirmation that the accused understood the nature of the application.

ETA: Had the accused appeared via video link this morning there would have been no need for the adjournment. Some magistrates may have let it go, this one didn't come down in any last showers for a long long time
Doing things this way means there can be no repercussions in the future against police or anyone else with claims of 'I didn't understand what it meant, etc etc'. Though the order could be made without his consent.

 

[Brightbird]

I very much doubt they would go down that path, it opens up all kinds of implications. It is not a complete defence, but if accepted, accused may be detained indefinitely in a forensic facility.
Also, it may be that some of the accused's behaviour following the murder would rebut the defence of mental illness. JMO - not implying anything specific.

Thanks for your input, it really helps to have a legal mind around. Are you referring to diminished responsibility because of mental illness? Like hypothetically, if he thought he was a character in his favourite story and Morgan was an evil villain and killing him was going to banish all homophobia from the world. Or something equally as far fetched. Then it could be argued (with a supporting psych eval) he was so out of touch with reality, he didn't really know right from wrong. That could put him in a forensic unit indefinitely.

But what sort of things might defence use to argue for a lesser sentence, or shorter non-parole, if he is convicted of murder? Another totally hypothetical example, could the defence argue that his Aspberger's makes him misunderstand people's intentions and something Morgan did or said sent him into a rage and he started stabbing him on an impulse? Or if he has really poor coping skills for interpersonal difficulties like rejection? I suppose I'm wondering if the defence could argue for a lesser sentence, based on his prospects for mental health rehabilitation. Depending on what his assessments show. Could they go for manslaughter even, and argue there was no premeditation? Can you stab someone to death and get manslaughter?

Sorry, jumping way ahead I know. He hasn't even entered a plea so it's way too early to discuss sentencing. Feel free to ignore my questions as rhetorical. Typing as I'm thinking and now I don't want to delete it all, lol. I think I've arrived at the conclusion that different factors will weigh in for conviction vs. sentencing. Talk about racing thoughts...ropeller:

 

[Ausgirl]

"It's grainy vision…but you can see that the person is just loitering around. It's not like he walks straight along the street, he hangs there for quite a while," the business owner said.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ad-his-last-beer/story-fni0cx12-1226739920271

I reckon this fits better with stalking behaviour, IMO. How do we know there wasn't an existing obsession or something? DJK habitually hung around places with direct views into the hotel, but didn't frequent it himself (I surmise, as there's been NO mention of it anywhere...). So he could have been staring at Morgan (who did drink there regularly enough to be called a 'fixture') for weeks.

And here he is, --loitering-- in an alley with a direct view of the pub exit, just a bit prior to running to catch up to Morgan at the lights... as IF he wasn't trailing him. I really do not think so.

The police are investigating stalking behaviour, they've said. I think it's pretty obvious why.

I guess the rest will come out in the wash, but I'm seeing this as a case where the (likely very drunk) victim may have had -no- intentions other than to maybe share a few drinks or maybe a choof with a guy he'd seen around.. All the while not realising what DJKs plans actually were.

I reckon Morgan was drugged with something, too. Maybe DJK had the means of doing that...

 

[sundaymorning123]

I lived with a man who had the same problems it was obvious he had never recieved treatment his family were so lovelly but did nothing to help him seek treatment and hid his diagnosis from me if i knew i never would have stayed attempting to figure out his problems and been left traumatised
his monotone voice his face only ever had one expression to it social phobia isolation obsessive daily rituals and routines compulsive lies highly manipulative behviour his life was ruled by his laws and not society in his brain
i found communicating on a daily basis emotionally abusive he did not have one once of empathy inside him i could never understand why he couldnt feel emotions like other people he was arrogant sarcastic and narrsarsitic sometimes making weird delusion comments
when he realised he upset me at times he would try to correct his behaviour like a 4year old child only to revert back to his ways he was demanding and had extreme tantrums when he didnt get things his way lashing out verbal abuse till he did in the end he was consumed by perverted sexual thoughts constantly and became sexually obsessive and sexually abusive and yes mentioned homosexuality once or twice
<modsnip>

 

[sundaymorning123]

I forgot to add I was never allowed to call him his first name I was screamed and yelled at to call him Yo his nickname

 

[dcohenist]

To me, for a 31 yo man drunk or sober to invite another man to his home after midnight following a just a quick chat on the street implausible.

One may invite someone to their place after a whole day of drinking and partying together, but not after only bumping them on the street 1:30 am...

Facts are the accused is not charged with sexual assault, both the accused, and the police are talking about a sexual activity taken place, there is no forced entry, everything was confined to the deceased' bedroom, and the deceased was not fully dressed when he was found. It is also obvious that the deceased was not in a monogamous relationship.

It is not difficult to imagine a conflict arising between a drunken man and a concrete thinking man during and or after a deal of some encounter of sexual nature.

It is not clear if they new each other, if they spent anytime together, how the accused left the crime scene potentially covered in blood, how the accused was tagged by the police but not a prime suspect although the accused was the last person seen together with the deceased on CCTV before the deceased was found.

As with the schools owners changing story, quite a few bits and pieces will change in the coming days, I believe.


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