Deceased/Not Found AUSTRALIA - Ms Lesley Trotter, 78, Homicide, Brisbane, 28 Mar 2023

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I find this interesting.
Detective Superintendent Andrew Massingham said Mitchell James Wilson, 27, was “armed, dangerous, irrational and particularly unpredictable”.

Perhaps MJW is also responsible for LT's fate?

 

I find this interesting.
Detective Superintendent Andrew Massingham said Mitchell James Wilson, 27, was “armed, dangerous, irrational and particularly unpredictable”.

Perhaps MJW is also responsible for LT's fate?

Oh wow I never even considered a connection, interesting thought!
 
It looks like the amount of rubbish that the Police will have to search through is more than 260 tonnes! The Courier Mail today stated that over 260 tonnes of rubbish came from the 22 trucks.

Courier Mail, The/Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane, Australia): Page 3

  • April 13, 2023
  • Courier Mail, The/Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane, Australia)
  • Brisbane, Australia
  • Page 3
 
There is a Courier Mail article, dated 12th April, where they interview Jim Whitehead, a retired QPS search and rescue coordinator.

He says (paraphrased) that it is definitely possible to find Lesley, though it will be a very time consuming search.
He says that generally this type of (rubbish dump) search involves 12-20 officers at one time searching in a line, going through the rubbish piece by piece.
Each piece will be removed, looked through, 'unrolled', turned over.
Usually searching in a 30m x 30m area each time, layer by layer.

He feels that pathologists should be able to determine injuries Lesley sustained through compacting (sorry :( ) and what caused her death. "It's absolutely possible". The biggest hurdle being decomposition.

Christian Lisle, Principal of a waste management and landfill consulting company, says it is relatively easy to work out where Lesley may be due to waste tracking.
The difficulty arises when additional loads and "capping soils" are added on top.

They place the landfill rubbish in "cells", consisting of a liner of clay almost a metre thick, as well as a thick layer of plastic.
Once the cell is full, they cap it with clay, then soil, and resurface it with turf, bushes, and trees.




(ETA: Sorry, I just realised that Tootsie posted some excerpts from this article yesterday. I must need more coffee!)
 
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It seems that the block of units where Ms Trotter lived did not have a recycling bin for each unit. There are only 2 recycling bins at the complex, yet there are 6 units. I looked around the laneway and it seems this is the same with other blocks of units - they share recycling bins.

The block of units where Ms Trotter lived have only had 2 recycling bins since Nov 2009

Street view Sept 2022

1681342957064.png

Street view Nov 2009
 

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Well that's interesting - only having 2 recycling bins for the whole complex of 6 units - does put a different slant on why there may have been contentscious issues over the recycling. It might have been adequate in 2009 but probably not in 2023. MOO
 
Well that's interesting - only having 2 recycling bins for the whole complex of 6 units - does put a different slant on why there may have been contentscious issues over the recycling. It might have been adequate in 2009 but probably not in 2023. MOO
Absolutely! Having just two means you'd need to be very careful about not putting non-recyclables in there, so I can imagine a very conscientious recycler coming into conflict with residents who chucked plastic bags of trash in there (as I can attest apartment residents are wont to do. I can personally say I've taken rubbish out for that reason - when its quickly and easily retrievable, such as in bags - and chucked it in the bin instead, but I've never ever made a big deal of it because it could be a passerby or something, and also I've never lived in a complex that didn't have general bins, so I was never making a statement by putting it into a specific resident's bin. Just my experience/opinion)

Also, as mentioned by a previous poster, lets be so grateful to Google for managing to take the photos on bin day years and years apart!
 

I find this interesting.
Detective Superintendent Andrew Massingham said Mitchell James Wilson, 27, was “armed, dangerous, irrational and particularly unpredictable”.

Perhaps MJW is also responsible for LT's fate?

Honestly, I don’t think he is related to Ms Trotter’s Case …. DI Massingham had finished the Presser about Ms Trotter…… and had walked away from the lectern, when the journalists called him back to ask about Wilson… it was an opportunistic chance for journalists regarding information on Wilson .. as it was a concurrent Brisbane case…. All IMO …
 
It seems that the block of units where Ms Trotter lived did not have a recycling bin for each unit. There are only 2 recycling bins at the complex, yet there are 6 units. I looked around the laneway and it seems this is the same with other blocks of units - they share recycling bins.

The block of units where Ms Trotter lived have only had 2 recycling bins since Nov 2009

Street view Sept 2022

View attachment 414347

Street view Nov 2009
Very interesting … and well noted ….. or do the other residents keep their recycling bin in their garage ???? Until it was ready to be put out for collection…???

Possibly because they didn’t like their Neighbor going thru their

Just a thought….
imo
 
I just checked and the bins to be emptied on the 28th March were household rubbish bins and the recycling bins... I just realised that most Councils offer an online calendar....

1681367856703.png
 
In Qld, body corporates (unit/apartment blocks) have slightly different rules for recycling bins.
Which could be why some unit blocks only seem to have a few recycling bins. They may have to share recycling bins.


Apartment blocks can request a larger bin or bulk recycling bins. Approval is subject to a Council site inspection based on:
  • availability of storage
  • kerb presentation space
  • accessibility for service vehicles, if required.
Recycling in a Body Corporate
 
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Retired QPS search and rescue co-ordinator Jim Whitehead weighs in on landfill search for Lesley Trotter’s body​


Retired Queensland Police Search and Rescue officer Jim Whitehead was involved in multiple searches of landfill in his 34-year career, saying it was an extremely tough and “labour intensive” job.

But Mr Whitehead said it was “definitely possible” to find the 78-year-old’s body.

“It’s very time consuming, but it’s possible,” Mr Whitehead said.

“Pathologists should be able to determine what injuries she sustained as a result of being compacted, and what may have caused her death. It’s absolutely possible.”

Mr Whitehead, Queensland’s former top search and rescue officer, said landfill searches generally involved between 12 to 20 officers at one time sifting through rubbish in a line, piece by piece.

“The search would be by hand, every piece of rubbish would be removed, every piece turned over, things looked through and unrolled,” he said.

“It’s very time consuming, you’re usually searching in a 30m x 30m area.”
Mr Whitehead said they would usually work through the waste layer by layer, which could take weeks.

He said the biggest factor working against search crews was decomposition, as it had been more than two weeks since Ms Trotter’s body had been collected.

“It has to be done by eye, it cannot be done by a machine,” he said.

Police are expected to begin searching in coming days.
i wonder if they use a cadavar dog or two, surely the dogs super noses would detect her scent quicker than manual searching?
 
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The following is all my personal opinion,

I wonder if we will see any images of the actual search today, as Friday was publicised as the possible start date ……

We have seen media headlines that state the search of landfill is already underway…. However, to date, all of the media images shown, have been of generic landfill operations …..

Just one example of media headlines …

rubbish-tips-scoured-for-signs-of-missing-brisbane-retired-teacher-20230412-p5czuc.html


The following is just a THEORY

Is it possible that there is a huge Police Media Strategy in play???? And they have already found Ms Trotter‘s body??? And are working the case backwards???

The wording at the last presser has always been odd and caused some confusion…

However if you look closely, it does state that Ms Trotter’s body was located on the 28th March….

At the presser DI Massingham does actually word it like this …..

Ongoing investigations can reveal that on the morning of Tuesday, the 28th of March this year, the body of a female we believe was Lesley Trotter was located in a general waste wheelie bin,” he said.
“It was evident she was deceased. Due to the positioning of the body, we can’t rule out foul play.


(If you leave out the words “a” and “wheelie bin” - it would say “located in general waste“ … )


And he also says this …..

Superintendent Massingham did not reveal how police knew Ms Trotter’s body was in the wheelie bin and picked up by the rubbish truck, saying only they had “strong evidence to suggest that”.
Evidence that I’m very confident in as being accurate,” he said.


A “body“ would be very “accurate evidence” and it probably took a few days to ID the body….

It will be interesting to see what plays out with the search…. They could be letting the perp think they don’t have a body???

Or….

They could also be searching for weapon??? If one was seen in the same wheelie bin as the body, Massingham also wouldn’t elaborate on the other contents of the bin in question…

Of course this all could be totally incorrect … but it is worth considering IMO due to the wording ….

Massingham does basically say they that her body has been located on the 28th March… IMO

References …..

Square profile picture

9News Queensland

@9NewsQueensland
·
Apr 12

A large-scale search at two landfill sites is underway today, as police investigate the disappearance of former Queensland teacher Lesley Trotter.
2 days ago…. However no specific images ..


ALL IMO
 
RSBM

Massingham does basically say they that her body has been located on the 28th March… IMO

I was reading this article earlier today, where it states the opinion of a leading criminologist. It could be why DI Massingham says that they located Lesley on 28th March, because they saw her (upon review) on the rubbish truck's CCTV from 28th March.


Associate Professor Terry Goldsworthy, of Bond University:
"I think technology has played a role in this investigation already," he said.
"We've seen comments from the police about the fact they're certain a woman was in a bin and the positioning of her in a bin. That would either come from CCTV near where the bins were located, or I suspect CCTV from within the bin trucks."

 
i wonder if they use a cadavar dog or two, surely the dogs super noses would detect her scent quicker than manual searching?

Just bumping this earlier post, bear. It explains why they don't use dogs in these types of searches.
The post is speaking of the 5 week landfill search for little Quinton Simon, in the US. (They found him.)


There was a big talk about dogs when the search was on for little Quinton.

The information received from members who knew people who worked with dogs is that landfills can be lethal for them. Sharp objects, bacteria, toxic chemicals, and high amounts of fumes such as methane being the major threats.

Humans can suit up completely with a Tyvek suit, gloves, pierceproof boots and respirator, and tools for raking and sorting. Dogs, because of how they're used, can't be protected in the same way.

MOO
 
I was reading this article earlier today, where it states the opinion of a leading criminologist. It could be why DI Massingham says that they located Lesley on 28th March, because they saw her (upon review) on the rubbish truck's CCTV from 28th March.


Associate Professor Terry Goldsworthy, of Bond University:
"I think technology has played a role in this investigation already," he said.
"We've seen comments from the police about the fact they're certain a woman was in a bin and the positioning of her in a bin. That would either come from CCTV near where the bins were located, or I suspect CCTV from within the bin trucks."

Yes I totally agree, this is quite possible …. And sort of obvious to those of us who follow crime…. IMO

However, why not just say they had seen it on CCTV from within the truck, in the presser??

Why the odd wording that is ambiguous??

There was another interview on 7 News, IIRC ???, with someone from Newcastle Uni, that thought it was extremely odd for Police to say she was deceased without a body …. (I will try and find a link… it was Easter Weekend I think) but it may take me a while …

IMO
 
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Yes I totally agree, this is quite possible …. And sort of obvious to those of us who follow crime…. IMO

However, why not just say they had seen it on CCTV from within the truck, in the presser??

Why the odd wording that is ambiguous??

There was another interview on 7 News, IIRC ???, with someone from NSW Uni, that thought it was extremely odd for Police to say she was deceased without a body …. (I will try and find a link… it was Easter Weekend I think) but it may take me a while …

IMO

Maybe because the police always have a thing or two that they hold back? (Just a guess.)
It is like DI Massingham not commenting on whether or not there were attempts to access Lesley's bank accounts.

If they are listening - covertly - to a strong POI, maybe they are hoping the person will mention something that hasn't been publicly released?
 
Maybe because the police always have a thing or two that they hold back? (Just a guess.)
It is like DI Massingham not commenting on whether or not there were attempts to access Lesley's bank accounts.

If they are listening - covertly - to a strong POI, maybe they are hoping the person will mention something that hasn't been publicly released?
Yes agree, I think there is a whole lot they are holding back ATM …. for strategic reasons as you say …

I really just wondered if anyone thought it may be possible?
 
Yes I totally agree, this is quite possible …. And sort of obvious to those of us who follow crime…. IMO

There was another interview on 7 News, IIRC ???, with someone from Newcastle Uni, that thought it was extremely odd for Police to say she was deceased without a body …. (I will try and find a link… it was Easter Weekend I think) but it may take me a while …

IMO
Here is the link ….

 
There was another interview on 7 News, IIRC ???, with someone from Newcastle Uni, that thought it was extremely odd for Police to say she was deceased without a body …. (I will try and find a link… it was Easter Weekend I think) but it may take me a while …
This makes me wonder if they have found (and I'm sorry for being graphic here) a substantial amount of blood. Enough to conclude that her injuries are not compatible with life.

IMO
 
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