Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ladies & Gents. Two things are on my mind.
1. The date of disappearance being the 20th March may be pivotal in the mindset of the alleged killer. It was immediately prior to this date that his career would have been thrown into a spin by the onset of covid 19 restrictions that would have no doubt affected his ability to Pilot and aeroplane. Going from earning big $$$ to either being stood down or knowing you will be stood down to earn 0 would be hard to stomach for anyone.
2. The bike on the back of the 4wd that was towed away by police. I do wonder whether the bike was a means of transportation that would not have been tracked that could have taken GL to the buriel site. i.e. GL whilst riding stumbles across the remains of the deceased in his bush pursuits by chance and then claims his dna is at the site through pure chance!. Is that why the police pounced to stop any chance of that happening?. I think GL is a very thoughtful SK and police know he is and have known it was him for some time but were waiting for him to trip up and he didn't. Hence, it was time to end his game by arresting him and charging him.

This is good. Wondering similar…if involved in other disappearances, then. I wonder what was happening for him around those times?
I think he may have returned to the site around the time of his arrest - to, as I think someone might’ve alluded to before, further destroy/move/hide the evidence [cringe]. I wonder if this is one of the reasons why the police ramp up the pressure on a suspect, while monitoring them - to make them nervous enough to doubt they’ve hidden the bodies well enough.
If so, it makes me worry that he has completely destroyed any trace of potential other crimes.
 
Alicia Elizabeth said GL had a low tolerance for noise. This bit from the article sounds like it will be living Hell for him:

"An insider said the unit is full of unsavoury characters who scream from their cells at all hours.
“The unit is extremely loud and noisy due to the profile of prisoner in there so he is getting a baptism of fire,” the prison source said.
The source said many inmates were “noisy…disruptive unmanageable *advertiser censored**holes”.
Gee whizz that’s a shame.
 
It’s from googlemaps. Do these camper trailers detach to become a standard trailer base?

No, they cannot be detached. And this one doesn't look close to what is caught on camera.

But, speaking of the trailer: I noticed the camera shot of the trailer shows it with something that look like flat planks on top. The police sketch has the trailer with some sort of tarpaulin apparently covering something soft, in any case not flat... One wonders why the police draftsman would not match the picture closely.
 
No, they cannot be detached. And this one doesn't look close to what is caught on camera.

But, speaking of the trailer: I noticed the camera shot of the trailer shows it with something that look like flat planks on top. The police sketch has the trailer with some sort of tarpaulin apparently covering something soft, in any case not flat... One wonders why the police draftsman would not match the picture closely.

Thanks derek7 and welcome.
So this must be another (older?) trailer that GL took out camping. Did you see this posted earlier in your reading, by any chance? I was pretty sure that it was only the 4WD changes that we’d discussed.

Earlier in the discussion (maybe thread 3 or 4), the comment was made that someone thought it was because it was after he’d left the campsite (with more ‘cargo’). I would think it would’ve been to let GL know that they had multiple images of his car (and knew more about his movements after he’d left).
 
Re the gate and campsite in the pictures, the article is wrong and I think this is just a matter of someone who doesn’t know the area, trying to pull points of interest out from what they’ve seen written elsewhere. They obviously know where the Wonnangatta valley is, but then they’ve punched into google and been pointed to the Wonnangatta camp ground as being down between eaglevale and the kingwill bridge. If you zoom in on google maps and look for where Neates Track crosses the Wonnangatta river, you can pinpoint the spot in the pic they used. This is the wrong spot, but props for trying, it would be hard for anyone not familiar with the area.
View attachment 325247

Uhm, the caption says only that 'a camper' has heard a car there turning, not that this is the campsite of RH & CC. They have the campsite pinned close to where it actually was, but still a bit off. It's placed too far to the southwest of the actual location which is where the red line goes right (to the southeast).

Another mistake in that map is at the end of the route, where at St Bernard Hospice they have GL turning right towards Mount Hotham, instead of left passing Hotham Resort Western Boundary (where his car was caught on camera).

Coming back to the car turning supposedly near Wonnangatta River Crossing. This is information not shared anywhere, so I really wonder where that's coming from. According to the map in the JS article, GL took the route south from Mount Cynthia (around 900 meters high and probably a point where a mobile ping was picked up). That route south is another piece of information not publicly known, as far as I know. How did the map designer come up with that? It's a very steep descent, would GL do that in the middle of the night with a trailer? Highly unlikely. Also the route then goes along Eaglevale Camping Area, Wonnangatta Camping Area, and other flat grounds where people could have set up camp. One would think GL wanted to avoid areas where campers could easily hear/spot him. However, one argument for taking this route is that Wonnangatta Road from Eaglevale to Kingwill Bridge is relatively flat.

The turning of the car could not have been right at the river crossing as on both sides there's ample space and it wouldn't need a 30 point turn. Probably the witness had his camp right there and heard the car turning a bit further down south on Wonnangatta Road? However, the supposed turning point also contradicts with earlier police reports where the car was said to have turned around at the Myrtleford Gate which is north of RH & CC's camping location.

So, the turning point seems indeed wrong, but the general route is probably right, whether GL crossed the river down from Mount Cynthia or not. See the Google Earth Map attached where I have drawn the route from the campground to Dargo High Plains Road, via Cynthia Range Track. GL initially wanted to go north from the camping ground (going where? We don't know), but that plan fell flat due to the closure of Myrtleford Gate. So, plan B is to take another way out. Maybe, just maybe, he indeed came across a closure or obstacle just past Wonnangatta River Crossing and decided to go back into Grant HA. My gut feeling says the buriel spot in Grant HA was not planned, but he obviously wanted to get rid of the bodies before sunrise and just happened to pass a 'perfect' spot (the hole from the fallen tree).

GLRoute-a.jpg
 
derek7 said;
"It's a very steep descent, would GL do that in the middle of the night with a trailer? Highly unlikely."

You think, Horatio? Consider - why couldn't he have
simply wanted to depart at a time when it was unlikely
he would encounter other vehicles on that track - is
it a single lane track? Rutted? With a trailer being
towed, and given if you encountered another vehicle
similarly towing a trailer in the direction opposite to
yourself during the daylight hours, given the potential
for difficult reversing and the potential for
disagreeable arguments as to who would do the
reversing, anyone may well decide to instead get up
and head out in the dark hours, to avoid just such a
displeasing & exasperating potential hassle.
 
Last edited:
I think it was in the answers to the journo’s at the presser where D.I. Stamper said the drawing was a composite of all the various descriptions they’d been given by witnesses of the blue 4x4 and trailer combo. I guess 1 (or maybe more) of the witnesses thought it could’ve been a soft floor camper.
But, speaking of the trailer: I noticed the camera shot of the trailer shows it with something that look like flat planks on top. The police sketch has the trailer with some sort of tarpaulin apparently covering something soft, in any case not flat... One wonders why the police draftsman would not match the picture closely.
 
Last edited:
I’ve had a not very pleasant thought, and I’m sorry about it, but is it possible that GL stabbed the two of them in their sleep?
He certainly couldn’t risk one of them yelling or screaming if one of them saw the other being attacked. It might awaken others in the area.
Further, if he murdered them in their sleeping bags it would minimize an otherwise gory scene and he needed only to move them to the trailer and set fire to the camp.
I do think the trailer will contain blood evidence, but can the police locate it.
GL is smart, and he’s cagey, and my guess is that trailer has long since been destroyed.
 
@Arboreal here you go, was on another forum, it’s a screenshot from the latest 60 minutes ep.

View attachment 325423
IMO, that would be a photo of the site when initially found. Everything seems jumbled in a tight mass, as opposed to later photos when they were more spread out.

Makes sense to me LE would keep the image of how the perp left it, up on their case board, rather than later photos taken after they'd started moving things.

Perhaps just my imagination, but seems me they may have quickly realized someone threw things into the fire, rather than finding everything in the place it would have been if the fire was accidental. That would immediately tell them the fire was deliberately set, not an accident from a battery charger, as first reported.
 
I dont think the blue tarp belonged to Russell. I think it may have been used by the police to arrange the artifacts from the burnt out campsite so nothing got lost. MOO
I did not see any deer carcasses in any of the trips I have made into the valley mainly because I didnt venture into the bush area on the east side of the river where a lot of the deer hunting goes on. I would not expect too many deer to be shot in the open country in the bottom of the valley, and if they were they would be cleaned up by the shooters as it the right thing to do. Other campers in the area would not like having a deer carcass on the door step.
The rope on top of the canopy is not part of his antenna. The antenna was a 40m long piece of wire with a feed line attached in the center. I think they are ropes used to tie to the top of the tent poles on the awning of the tent that was quite close to the passenger side of the vehicle. You can see the end near the back of the cabin is quite blackened. If you find the picture from the passenger side of the vehicle you can see a small piece of burnt rope tied to the hitching rail of the canopy. This lines up pretty well with where one of the tent poles on the awning would have been. MOO

Edit: forgot to mention the drum. It was a 20l Castrol oil drum with the top cut off and a square taken out of the side. It was used as a windbreak for a single burner stove on top of a gas bottle. The square was to gain access to the gas control on the burner. Russell used this many times when I camped with him mainly to boil water for tea /coffee or washing up etc. He also had a 2 burner gas camping stove he would set up in the side of the canopy to cook on. Never cooked in the tent.

Edit 2: here is the pic attached
Russell must have loved his new "toy".

I never realised that his vehicle was so new (2017 model) from the picture, probably because of the slight fire damage. upload_2021-12-6_7-9-19.png upload_2021-12-6_7-10-53.png
 
I dont think the blue tarp belonged to Russell. I think it may have been used by the police to arrange the artifacts from the burnt out campsite so nothing got lost. MOO
I did not see any deer carcasses in any of the trips I have made into the valley mainly because I didnt venture into the bush area on the east side of the river where a lot of the deer hunting goes on. I would not expect too many deer to be shot in the open country in the bottom of the valley, and if they were they would be cleaned up by the shooters as it the right thing to do. Other campers in the area would not like having a deer carcass on the door step.
The rope on top of the canopy is not part of his antenna. The antenna was a 40m long piece of wire with a feed line attached in the center. I think they are ropes used to tie to the top of the tent poles on the awning of the tent that was quite close to the passenger side of the vehicle. You can see the end near the back of the cabin is quite blackened. If you find the picture from the passenger side of the vehicle you can see a small piece of burnt rope tied to the hitching rail of the canopy. This lines up pretty well with where one of the tent poles on the awning would have been. MOO

Edit: forgot to mention the drum. It was a 20l Castrol oil drum with the top cut off and a square taken out of the side. It was used as a windbreak for a single burner stove on top of a gas bottle. The square was to gain access to the gas control on the burner. Russell used this many times when I camped with him mainly to boil water for tea /coffee or washing up etc. He also had a 2 burner gas camping stove he would set up in the side of the canopy to cook on. Never cooked in the tent.

Edit 2: here is the pic attached
Thanks heaps, Motomike. As ever, your insights are very helpful.
 
derek7 said;
"It's a very steep descent, would GL do that in the middle of the night with a trailer? Highly unlikely."

You think, Horatio? Consider - why couldn't he have
simply wanted to depart at a time when it was unlikely
he would encounter other vehicles on that track - is
it a single lane track? Rutted? With a trailer being
towed, and given if you encountered another vehicle
similarly towing a trailer in the direction opposite to
yourself during the daylight hours, given the potential
for difficult reversing and the potential for
disagreeable arguments as to who would do the
reversing, anyone may well decide to instead get up
and head out in the dark hours, to avoid just such a
displeasing & exasperating potential hassle.

And also a very memorable hassle, I’d think.
 
Hey @ScottToorak
Regarding being a SK.... the accused needs to have killed at least on three separate occasions to be considered a SK I believe ? ...and I wouldn't have thought the LE would wait to try to prove this over getting justice for Carol and Russell.

JMO
I don’t think GL fits the SK pattern IMO.
A serial killer isn’t just someone who has killed 3 times at least. SK killings fit a pattern - some trauma or event in the SK’s life which they repeat over and over to gain pleasure from revenge, or exorcise demons whatever you will. Hence the term “serial killing.”
The victims are often a particular type related to this past event i.e. women who look like his mother etc. I say his because SKs are almost exclusively men. Some women have been known but it’s a small percentage.
The killings have a particular M.O., plus a ‘signature’ often left by the killer, e.g. blue scarf, particular knife pattern on the body, related to the event which is being recreated.
People can kill many times, but not be categorised as serial killers. Spree shooters, mass murderers etc would be examples. Some people kill to cover up a crime, which may involve killing multiple victims.

Some killers are just unpleasant, aggressive, possibly violent people who attack anyone in their way or who go against their wishes, or who just piss them off on a bad day.

ETA for subjudice.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
74
Guests online
2,525
Total visitors
2,599

Forum statistics

Threads
599,923
Messages
18,101,649
Members
230,955
Latest member
ClueCrusader
Back
Top