Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

[JudgeJudi]

This latest Guardian one seems to make me even more confused.

Russell Hill seen ‘grumpy’ at Victorian campsite days before he and Carol Clay allegedly murdered, court told

Witness also tells committal hearing for Greg Lynn, the man charged with their murders, that he saw a drone flying over site

www.theguardian.com

A “grumpy old bugger” believed to be Russell Hill was seen speeding into a campsite in remote bushland in Victoria’s high country days before he was allegedly murdered, a court has heard.

The article says "A grumpy old bugger” believed to be Russell Hill was seen speeding into a campsite in remote bushland in Victoria’s high country hours [not days] before he was allegedly murdered, a court has heard".

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The article says "A grumpy old bugger” believed to be Russell Hill was seen speeding into a campsite in remote bushland in Victoria’s high country hours [not days] before he was allegedly murdered, a court has heard".

They must have made changes to the article because the body of the article when I first posted it called it days, which made no sense to me all.

Thanks for posting it. I feel less confused now

 

[JudgeJudi]

I wonder if those shovels, or were they spades, ended up having anything to do with it.

LE did say they were going back to the mountain they were found on, to do more investigating.

I haven't heard any more about the shovels but I did find this:

Speaking on Today, former homicide detective Charlie Bezzina said another party seemed to be involved in the elderly pair's disappearance.

Mr Bezzina said the shovels may not lead to a breakthrough in the case, but they would be forensically examined.

"I don't think that it is so significant because they are shovels and not spades and you can't dig holes with shovels, but it has to be looked at," he said.

Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

 

[JudgeJudi]

The last witness to give evidence on Monday was a former IT technician at the Hotham Alpine Resort Timothy Lunn, who was tasked with police to identify which vehicles exited the Valley on March 21.

He told the court 12 vehicles were identified on cameras operated by the resort and he provided the registrations to police.

One of the registrations allegedly matches Mr Lynn’s vehicle.

The committal hearing will continue on Tuesday with three new witnesses expected to give evidence.

Link

 

[JudgeJudi]

RSBM

Didn’t GL have a solicitor present during the interview?

I couldn't find anything on that subject but there's an obligation on police to caution a person in an interview that their statements may be used in evidence. I'm sure he's an intelligent man and would have asked for one, but then again he may be arrogant enough to think he didn't need one.

He was arrested on 25 November, 2021, questioned for 3 days and charged, following which the police went straight to an area where they hadn't looked before and found the remains on 30 November.

If he didn't want to tell the police where the bodies were, they had an ace up their sleeve in that Victoria has "No body, no parole" laws. Would a guilty person run that risk? I don't think so.

No body, no parole - laws in Australia - Crime - Australia

Just scroll down to Victoria.

 

[wary]

He may try using self-defence in the case of RH, but how would he explain Carol's death? From what we've learned about her, I think it extremely unlikely that she would join Russell in attacking anyone, but that's just my opinion.

I don’t think that the idea that killing Carol was self defense, because otherwise she’d have accused him of murdering RH, so he HAD to kill her—I don’t think that that will go over well with a jury.

 

[wary]

I haven't heard any more about the shovels but I did find this:

Speaking on Today, former homicide detective Charlie Bezzina said another party seemed to be involved in the elderly pair's disappearance.

Mr Bezzina said the shovels may not lead to a breakthrough in the case, but they would be forensically examined.

"I don't think that it is so significant because they are shovels and not spades and you can't dig holes with shovels, but it has to be looked at," he said.

Third party 'clearly' involved in mysterious disappearance of campers

“You can’t dig holes with shovels,” he says. You can’t? Is this yet another example of “two countries divided by a single language?” What IS a shovel in Australia?

 

[SuziQ]

I'm so confused by the vehicles parked close together at the one campsite. Did RH discover GL already in his favorite spot and pulled in to confront GL? Then RH was forced to set up a campsite elsewhere? Thanks in advance to anyone who can undo my confusion. Lol.

 

[they'll get you]

That does ring a bell ?

Both men said they saw the vehicle pull into the Homestead Flat camping ground and park near two other vehicles – a blue Nissan Patrol and a white Mazda ute.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Both men said they saw the vehicle pull into the Homestead Flat camping ground and park near two other vehicles – a blue Nissan Patrol and a white Mazda ute.

Is the homestead flat camp ground the same place where RH burnt out camp spot was found? Just trying to clarify this on my mind

 

[HinterlandObserver]

“You can’t dig holes with shovels,” he says. You can’t? Is this yet another example of “two countries divided by a single language?” What IS a shovel in Australia?

So a spade is the pointier kind and a shovel is the flat kind. Saying you can’t dig a hole with a shovel is just stupid (sounds like a lazy police officer coming to that conclusion). You can certainly dig holes with both, but a spade is easier to cut the ground with, and a shovel is better for moving loose matter with.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is the homestead flat camp ground the same place where RH burnt out camp spot was found? Just trying to clarify this on my mind

I'm confused too. I always thought that they stopped at the old homestead then carried on to where they camped.

Sounds like they were camped near to the Homestead Flat camp ground. I looked back in the threads ... back in July 2020 Herald Sun reported that Russell said he was about to set up camp near the old homestead site (presumably when he spoke with his ham radio friends).



Also ....

"Arson detectives have been unable to work out what caused a fire that destroyed camp chairs, a table and a tent at their campsite at Dry River Creek Track near the Wonnangatta campground."

Police say drone could hold vital clues about disappearance of elderly campers

Police say a Victorian man who went missing, along with a close friend, during a camping trip a month ago was "meticulous" in the bush. But they still haven't worked out what started the fire that destroyed the pair's campsite.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm so confused by the vehicles parked close together at the one campsite. Did RH discover GL already in his favorite spot and pulled in to confront GL? Then RH was forced to set up a campsite elsewhere? Thanks in advance to anyone who can undo my confusion. Lol.

Join the club. Many of us were confused yesterday and still are. I hope we get some clarification soon.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/carol-clay-and-russell-hill-murder-allegations-against-pilot-gregory-lynn-to-be-revealed/news-story/c92aa7172053848e40fd506feb6ffdd8

Robert Williams, a contractor spraying blackberries in the area for Parks Victoria, said he spoke to a “creepy fella”, aged in his mid 50s, for 10 to 15 minutes after he arrived in the valley on March 17.

“This fellow was sweating badly and didn’t look well, as he walked towards me, I told him to stop about 4 metres away because I thought he might have the Coronavirus or something,” he said in a statement to police.

“This bloke said he was a hunter and had just come out of the bush.”

He pointed the man, who he said was driving an old Toyota Prado, towards an area known locally as “Bucks Camp”.

Thomas Matthews, a builder who was camping with wife and two daughters near the Wonnangatta track, reported hearing a vehicle performing a “difficult” U-turn overnight on March 20 or 21 after coming across a closed river crossing.

“We were set 10m off the track, right at the creek crossing to exit the (Wonnangatta) Valley,” he said.

“We were sleeping and it woke us up… I’d just say it was the middle of the night.

“I found this to be quite strange as it was very late and unusual for cars to be driving around.”

 

[JudgeJudi]

“You can’t dig holes with shovels,” he says. You can’t? Is this yet another example of “two countries divided by a single language?” What IS a shovel in Australia?

I do a lot of gardening and always use a spade. We also have a shovel but I never use it because it's much heavier.

This explains and shows the differences

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The way I've always thought about the difference between shovels and spades is that a shovel is for scooping stuff up, soil, sand,whatever.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Both men said they saw the vehicle pull into the Homestead Flat camping ground and park near two other vehicles – a blue Nissan Patrol and a white Mazda ute.

Police were looking for a particular car in their search for the campers. It was described as a white dual cab, four-wheel-drive utility ute but the exact make and model is not confirmed.

"Now we understand that this vehicle was parked near the long drop toilet, or the public toilet and a small suspension bridge over the Wonnangatta River river, which is, is within fairly close proximity to where we know that Russell and Carol camped," Detective Inspector Andrew Stamper said.

"The next night - so I stress that this is on the Thursday night of the 19th - so the night before we believe, Russell and Carol disappeared."

Investigators say there is nothing linking the car or the occupants with the 73 and 74-year-old's disappearance from Wonnangatta.

However, police have not given up hope that those travelling in the ute may have some information that is new to investigators.

Police looking for ute in search for missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill

 

[JudgeJudi]

A deer hunter who watched RH and CC arrive at the campsite has told a court their first move was “strange”.

Goran Milikovic said “The Landcruiser we had been following pulled into this area and stopped right in front of the two vehicles, closer to these two vehicles than I would consider normal. They walked in between the toilet block and the other two parked vehicles towards the bush. That was the last I saw of them that day.” He found it “strange” because the campsite was quite large, and speculated at the time they were friends with the other campers.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...s/news-story/54429d6e0504d3b03e9a075202d6dde9

 

[TootsieFootsie]

More and more I'm starting to think that Russell and Carol died because of an argument over a preferred campsite.

I'm much less inclined to think it was to do with the drone..

But a thought... Maybe the drone was filming during the argument or the person thought it might, so had to get rid of it.

I don't suppose the drone could have been completely burned up in the fire, leaving no traces.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Alleged killer quizzed year before arrest

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Melbourne campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay interviewed their suspected killer nearly 18 months before he was arreste...

www.sheppnews.com.au

Detectives investigating the disappearance of Melbourne campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay interviewed their suspected killer nearly 18 months before he was arrested.

Two Victoria Police officers spoke to airline pilot Greg Lynn for about an hour at his Caroline Springs kitchen bench in July 2020 about his movements when the campers disappeared three months earlier.

Detective Senior Constable Abbey Justin was one of the officers who interviewed Lynn, then a witness, in July 2020.

She told the court Lynn's car was one of a dozen picked up by automatic number plate recognition cameras at the Hotham Alpine Resort between 9.40am and 10am on March 21, 2020.

Phone data had placed Mr Hill's phone in the area at the time, prompting officers to review footage.

Det Justin said the 11 other cars picked up by the camera had also been captured on two number plate recognition cameras on the other side of the alpine resort and eliminated as a result.

Det Justin also took a photo of Lynn's car at the home. She believed it was the same vehicle although it was a different colour.