Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

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Sher Lock said:
I wonder when forensic experts were called in to examine the room GL stayed in at the hotel. What makes me a bit suss with this statement is that surely the hotel owners would have washed the white bathmat after each guest has stayed in that particular room. Also, surely they vaccum the room after each guest too (single singed hair was also found). Some things just aren't making sense to me at this stage.
Edit: Sorry Judge Judi ... somehow I've tagged your post which shouldn't have been as I did it earlier with an appropriate response. WS has been playing up a bit this afternoon.
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According to this recent study from 2021 Human identification from washed blood stains - Bulletin of the National Research Centre

It was determined that while a sufficient amount of DNA for the forensic genetic profiling can be obtained from cotton and nylon fabrics washed at 40 and 60 °C, a sufficient amount could not be obtained from the ones washed at 90 °C. And that shows even if bloodstained fabrics are washed at 60 °C, the fabrics still can be considered as physical evidence of the crime and can be associated with the scene, perpetrator and victim triangle.
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AussieIan said:
From what MotoMike said Russell also wasn't a foolish man and aware of the risk getting into a heated argument with a stranger in the middle of nowhere and said he can't see Russell doing that.

It didn't sound like he was the type of guy to grab a gun and start wrestling unless it was already a life or death situation so that can't see him doing it before Carol was shot unless there was serious reason.


GLs story isn't a bad one as far as CYA stories go but with what we've heard about Russell here it doesn't ring true.
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I agree.

To start with, how did Russell know that GL had a shotgun. If he saw him carrying it around in the brief time he was there, that would be a strong reason not to have a violent argument with him.

If Russell had seen it, how did he know where it was kept in the Nissan Patrol.

In my mind I see GL approaching Russell's campsite carrying the gun, they had a heated verbal exchange near RH's tent followed by a fight and Russell tried to grab the the gun in case GL was going to use it. CC was standing near RH's vehicle as there was DNA on the roof of the Landcruiser.

If the knife belonged to GL, how was it that he was carrying 2 large weapons. Khukris (Ghurka knife) are heavy. I know because I bought one for my son who's a big camper, while I was in Nepal where they're used for cutting branches off trees etc.

If the blood on the hotel bathroom doormat was Russell's, it need not change GL's story that it was an accident because if you kill someone, whether it be murder or accident, blood is bound to splatter onto you.

Unless we get a confession, and IMO we won't, we will never know what really happened. There's a huge amount of circumstantial evidence and we just have to hope and pray that it's strong enough. We don't know much at all at the moment so it's an agonising waiting game for us.
 
I just tested something, I took some photos with my drone (same model as RH) in an area without phone coverage last week and never looked at them.

I just found they were automatically uploaded to my Google account via Google Photos when I came back in to phone reception.

It's been established that RH's phone had coverage at some stage after the murders, I wonder what photo and video content police may have found in RH's cloud storage.

Edit - to clarify, I still haven't manually downloaded the images to my phone, these are the images that were transmitted during piloting that appear in phone storage instantly
 
There are ways to remove blood from clothing, towels etc.

With oxygen bleach, the bleach has an oxidising agent, which could be a substance such as hydrogen peroxide. In these instances, haemoglobin is completely removed and can’t later be detected. As expected, this presents a unique challenge for forensic scientists. Not only that, but it can significantly compromise an investigation and may mean that Evidence is not properly investigated and used in a trial.

To properly assess whether bleach could fully remove blood, researchers soaked some bloodstained clothing in oxygen bleach for a couple of hours. After the bleaching, stains did look faded, although they were still somewhat noticeable.

On the other hand, even though there was some visible marking, luminol and phenolphthalein didn’t detect the haemoglobin on the clothing.

Detecting Evidence After Bleaching – Explore Forensics
 
 
Sher Lock said:
Edit: Sorry Judge Judi ... somehow I've tagged your post which shouldn't have been as I did it earlier with an appropriate response. WS has been playing up a bit this afternoon.
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I've had issues too. I use a desktop PC so I may see things people using phones don't. If I click Post Reply and it stays in the Post reply section, it invariably happens when at least one other person is posting. I see an orange moving line and 3 small orange rectangles at the top of my screen.

It also happens if my post is near the bottom of the WS screen and won't fit on the current page. I just wait for a minute and then go to the next page to see if it has in fact been posted. I think this is the reason why so many people get double posts because they hit Post reply a second time. Hope this helps.

Wow, just happened when I posted this. :)
 
TootsieFootsie said:
Maybe Russell's drone only had local storage. Or maybe he hadn't signed up for cloud storage.
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The drone model that was shown as RH's missing drone (DJI Mavic 2) automatically saves copies to your phone as you fly (you need to fly it via the app on your phone).

A Google Android or Apple iOS device is required, and both use respective accounts that include cloud storage by default.

Yes, of course RH may not have had his cloud storage configured, but I'm of the belief that most people have cloud backup for photos enabled as it's free and people don't want to lose their phone photos.

It'd be great if police had an ace up their sleeve
 
JudgeJudi said:
I've had issues too. I use a desktop PC so I may see things people using phones don't. If I click Post Reply and it stays in the Post reply section, it invariably happens when at least one other person is posting. I see a moving orange squiggly thing at the top of my screen.

It also happens if my post is near the bottom of the WS screen and won't fit on the current page. I just wait for a minute and then go to the next page to see if it has in fact been posted. I think this is the reason why so many people get double posts because they hit Post reply a second time. Hope this helps.
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Thanks for the explanation and I'll watch out for it. I'm on a desktop PC too.
 
I really agree with all those of you who don't believe GL's story of how Carol and Russell died. The idea of Russell reaching into someone else's vehicle to grab a gun is pretty unbelievable, IMO. I do think there was probably a struggle over the gun, but I think it is so much more likely that GL produced it, and Russell was defending Carol and himself (from a man nearly 20 years younger, BTW.)
 
Kemug said:
The idea of Russell reaching into someone else's vehicle to grab a gun is pretty unbelievable, IMO.
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100%. The idea that ANYBODY of sound mind would reach into a stranger's vehicle and steal their firearm is remote at best, and the idea that they'd be bold enough to steal a firearm off some random man they'd been in an altercation with is utterly absurd.

Edit - the only plausible way I'd believe this story is if GL indicated that he was going for his weapon and RH acted out of self-preservation and got to it first.
 
Belleandsebastian said:
I think police knew where the bodies were likely to be for some time if they observed him returning to the same place. They wanted to wait until they could arrest him before looking in that area I guess.
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IMO they had no idea. They were murdered in March 2020 and didn't discover the remains, not bodies, until November 2022. During that interval the bodies were moved, possibly twice, and burned. By that time LE needed anthropologists to assist them. A delay like that makes it so much harder to discover what happened to them as there was no tissue, only bones and fragments.

He was arrested on 22 November, 2022 charged on 25 November, interviewed for 4 days and the remains were found on 30 November, i.e. the day after the interview finished. The police went straight to a particular location and knew exactly what they were looking for, an up rooted tree.
 
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