Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[TootsieFootsie]

I think the button making could be sort of a hobby like whittling wood, but I really don't know if he uses them as buttons or it's an artistic object to him.

 

[trujac]

I have to say that Button Man - or whoever it was that Russell had that run-in with - isn't off my radar yet.

Perhaps the same person who took that photo of a camper while they were sleeping.

Someone like Button Man would have little probem with killing live 'things'. Carving buttons out of antlers would mean they are accustomed to killing. And likely without a gun, unless they had money for ammo, which I doubt.

I have sometimes wondered if Russell was killed, and Carol is still alive and trapped with a person like Button Man.

IMO

Let's hope that's not the case--CC would definitely be suffering if she was restrained somewhere and with a psychopath.

 

[trujac]

This is certainly one of the most curious cases on WS.

Occam's razor is the most simpler explanation is the one more likely to be correct

BUT what is the most simplest explanation?

In my book the simplest explanation for RH and CC's disappearance and the campsite fire is both events were the result of an accident. Other theories as to happened to them, in my opinion, require extra probabilities and assumptions--ending up a more complex story with lots of justifications.

 

[trujac]

Could his radio contact people or them able to contact him and I imagine an experienced camper could have a Telstra phone that works rural converage/long distances from any towers.

O/T but when we were (able) to cruise my bro who had a Testra phone contacted shore 100's of Kilometres off shore whereas my Optus only worked when we were through Sydney heads.
Getting the right gear for tough-as-nails rural coverage

Having a personal locator beacon in the event of an emergency is something that one would think RH would have had on his person or in his truck--especially considering his health and medical needs. When all else fails--radios and cell phones, and you need to send a signal immediately for help, the beacon can save your life.
7 Best Personal Locator Beacons (and Satellite Messengers) in 2020

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Having a personal locator beacon in the event of an emergency is something that one would think RH would have had on his person or in his truck--especially considering his health and medical needs. When all else fails--radios and cell phones, and you need to send a signal immediately for help, the beacon can save your life.
7 Best Personal Locator Beacons (and Satellite Messengers) in 2020

Great idea but maybe he had one and left it at the camp when they were testing out the drone.

 

[trujac]

Great idea but maybe he had one and left it at the camp when they were testing out the drone.

Not much point in having one and not taking it with you...they are small enough to fit in a pocket comfortably.

 

[neesaki]

Lol.

I think a person likely took the photo. The camper would most probably have been able to tell if it was a wonky photo as if the camera had fallen and accidently went off. Most buttons for snapping shots on a camera are small and in a pretty protected place so they don't accidently get pushed. IMO

Reminds me of JA’s camera when she murdered Travis Alexander, in which it took photos of the crime scene. That’s always creeped me out a little, but I’m sure glad it did.

 

[trujac]

If I may put this to the forum: why on earth is he making buttons? I’m open to all ideas, we all have hobbies... skills...

Are we talking buttons for clothes? Or is this more figurative buttons..? Small wittled discs with no function? Are they collected? Or left places? Is making buttons just a habit to pass idle time? A mark to remember deer hunts/kills? Like a trophy?

Without being local, I wish to be careful not to fall into believing a “boogeyman” theory. Not everyone fits typical communities and it’s not illegal to be self-sufficient or off the grid. But I’d really like some local insight.

Based on the various news reports about Mr. Buttons, I think he is a ritualistic type of person and enjoys repetitious forms of activity. Adding to his time consuming occupation of making buttons out of deer horns, he's also known to keep track of vehicles driving through the valley by stacking rocks... each time a vehicle drives down a road he is monitoring, he places another rock on his rock pile. He doesn't appear to be intimidating to the locals in the valley --as locals who were interviewed by news media painted Mr. Buttons as harmless and eccentric. I think he's also pretty clever with lots of survival skills and probably wouldn't jeopardize his free wheeling lifestyle by committing murder, imo.

 

[trujac]

Reminds me of JA’s camera when she murdered Travis Alexander, in which it took photos of the crime scene. That’s always creeped me out a little, but I’m sure glad it did.

yes, that was a bizarre twist of fate that JA's camera went autopilot and documented the slaughter of TA.

 

[they'll get you]

If I may put this to the forum: why on earth is he making buttons? I’m open to all ideas, we all have hobbies... skills...

Are we talking buttons for clothes? Or is this more figurative buttons..? Small wittled discs with no function? Are they collected? Or left places? Is making buttons just a habit to pass idle time? A mark to remember deer hunts/kills? Like a trophy?

Without being local, I wish to be careful not to fall into believing a “boogeyman” theory. Not everyone fits typical communities and it’s not illegal to be self-sufficient or off the grid. But I’d really like some local insight.

Hunting is an accepted hobby; using the whole animal is a responsible and respectful way to honour the animal by some hunters standards. While there are many beliefs about hunting it is not illegal, especially in the areas he is hunting as there are reports of plague proportion deer populations.
The growing legend of The Button Man "Buttons" - Haunted Hills

 

[they'll get you]

Buttons or The Button-Man is a flint-hard, expert bushman who earned his nickname from his habit of using deer antlers to make buttons and fashion large plugs for his ear piercings
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ounting-mountain-mystery-20200521-p54v4p.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Having a personal locator beacon in the event of an emergency is something that one would think RH would have had on his person or in his truck--especially considering his health and medical needs. When all else fails--radios and cell phones, and you need to send a signal immediately for help, the beacon can save your life.
7 Best Personal Locator Beacons (and Satellite Messengers) in 2020

When DI Stamper gave the presser (video) that I just listened to, he said that Russell's vehicle had a special made tray canopy that was fully kitted out for camping. They had both of the sides of the canopy up, very neat and tidy (meticulous, as has been said about Russell).

I would be surprised if he didn't have some kind of emergency equipment also.

I wonder if something(s) is missing from the camping equipment that was 'always' in the back of the vehicle. And police now know that, after speaking with Russell's ham radio camping friends.

 

[JLZ]

I noticed in the video in this link that the DI Stamper says that Missing Persons is working with detectives in Sale.

Why would that be? Because Sale is the closest town that would have detectives?

It is the first time I have listened to this video.

Just some snippets:
"With the likelihood that Russell and Carol wouldn't have gone on a bushwalk or hike away from the camp, we would have assumed that the two people would have been found"
Last physical sighting of Russell and Carol was when he picked her up at 7:30am at Carol's Packenham home.
Via tracking of their mobile phones, they now know they took the route through Hayfield, which then takes you to Lacola/Lacola North, then through Howitt Plains, and on to the Zeka Spur track, and onto Wonnangatta Valley.
Mobile communications start getting "pretty scratchy" around Lacola.

They are looking for more CCTV, residential/business/dashcam footage of Russell's vehicle.

If anyone is worried that they shouldn't have been out due to covid restrictions, don't worry about that, that is not the focus, the focus is on finding out what has happened to Russell and Carol and get answers.

Police turn to overseas expert over missing Victorian campers mystery

Is that video up-to-date? I suppose "last physical sighting" would exclude CCTV in which they could be identified? Surely there would have been refuelling stops where they also stretched, perhaps picked up a snack, and likely switched driver-passenger roles.

I would guess they want footage of the vehicle because they want to confirm that both Russell and Carol are alive within.

 

[JLZ]

Perhaps the same person who took that photo of a camper while they were sleeping.

In my opinion that's a very old tall tale.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is that video up-to-date? I suppose "last physical sighting" would exclude CCTV in which they could be identified? Surely there would have been refuelling stops where they also stretched, perhaps picked up a snack, and likely switched driver-passenger roles.

I would guess they want footage of the vehicle because they want to confirm that both Russell and Carol are alive within.

I think the word "physical" is the key, as opposed to digital. Perhaps Russell's vehicle is diesel? Diesel vehicles travel much further with no fillup req'd.

And if they have digital evidence of Russell and Carol during the trip, why would they need more digital evidence of that same thing?

I recall in the Ristevski case that CCTV was used in identifying other vehicles on the road.
In that case, the police called for owners of those vehicles to please come forward. I think there were 5 vehicles IIRC that they particularly wanted to speak with the drivers. At that point, I think they were hoping for a positive ID of the driver of Karen's vehicle, and perhaps if anyone else could be sighted within the vehicle.

 

[JLZ]

I think the word "physical" is the key, as opposed to digital. Perhaps Russell's vehicle is diesel? Diesel vehicles travel much further with no fillup req'd.

And if they have digital evidence of Russell and Carol during the trip, why would they need more digital evidence of that same thing?

I recall in the Ristevski case that CCTV was used in identifying other vehicles on the road.
In that case, the police called for owners of those vehicles to please come forward. I think there were 5 vehicles IIRC that they particularly wanted to speak with the drivers. At that point, I think they were hoping for a positive ID of the driver of Karen's vehicle, and perhaps if anyone else could be sighted within the vehicle.

I don't know whether they have digital evidence of Russell and Carol during the trip. Apparently they have some CCTV of the vehicle, but it seems they're looking for more, and it might be because what they have doesn't show who the occupants are. Russell's voice and words on the radio are evidence that he made it to Wonnangatta, but if I had to investigate this formally I would like a sighting or two of the people since Pakenham to corroborate that.

Good point about diesel. I still think they should have stopped somewhere in the course of a more than four-hour trip Drouin-Pakenham-Howitt Plains. But it might not have been at a service station so less likely to be on CCTV.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't know whether they have digital evidence of Russell and Carol during the trip. Apparently they have some CCTV of the vehicle, but it seems they're looking for more, and it might be because what they have doesn't show who the occupants are. Russell's voice and words on the radio are evidence that he made it to Wonnangatta, but if I had to investigate this formally I would like a sighting or two of the people since Pakenham to corroborate that.

Good point about diesel. I still think they should have stopped somewhere in the course of a more than four-hour trip Drouin-Pakenham-Howitt Plains. But it might not have been at a service station so less likely to be on CCTV.

"On the night of March 20, while Russell and Carol were camping in the Wonnangatta Valley, Russell spoke to three or four club members including Robbie."
Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

Hopefully these are all trustworthy people who would not all be in a conspiracy to lie about the communications, and have confirmed.

Yes, they likely could have stopped ... I usually need to stretch my legs on the way to/from an outback town we visit (about 6 hours away). In fact, we often stop overnight and do it in two shorter drives, if we have plenty of time to spare.

 

[they'll get you]

I think the word "physical" is the key, as opposed to digital. Perhaps Russell's vehicle is diesel? Diesel vehicles travel much further with no fillup req'd.

And if they have digital evidence of Russell and Carol during the trip, why would they need more digital evidence of that same thing?

I recall in the Ristevski case that CCTV was used in identifying other vehicles on the road.
In that case, the police called for owners of those vehicles to please come forward. I think there were 5 vehicles IIRC that they particularly wanted to speak with the drivers. At that point, I think they were hoping for a positive ID of the driver of Karen's vehicle, and perhaps if anyone else could be sighted within the vehicle.

At first I didn’t understand why the cops were looking for all vehicles in Victoria that were identical to Ristevskis, now in hindsight it was a process of elimination that NO other vehicle was in the vicinity. So that eliminated all vehicles except Ristevski’s on that road at the time.

Dontcha love our cops?

This cop had the sleuthers swooning.
Oooh we had some fun SA!

 

[they'll get you]

Did the cops take Russell’s vehicle on a run like this when they confiscated for that second time?

 

[SouthAussie]

Did the cops take Russell’s vehicle on a run like this when they confiscated for that second time?

Hmm ... they might have done. Hadn't thought about that. To check the timing of the trip perhaps, see what CCTV cameras they could see along the way, see who may have seen Russell's vehicle from their usual vantage point, check the fuel usage.