Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[SouthAussie]

Thanks South, I must have missed that!

I missed it, too. I only just noticed it in that article.

 

[Estelle]

Although I have always suspected the wife as having a motive, I cannot actually imagine that she would actually go by herself to their camping site and end the lives of Russell and Carol. Was she living on a property and had access to a gun? How would she alone be able to dispose of the two bodies? Who helped the wife or did she pay somebody else to do it? Why didn't Russell just leave his wife and live with Carol? Was it because of religion eg Catholic?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It might have been added later. I do remember the article but don't remember the daughter part.
I've noticed that articles are often updated these days as they get more information I guess.

I missed it, too. I only just noticed it in that article.

 

[SouthAussie]

Although I have always suspected the wife as having a motive, I cannot actually imagine that she would actually go by herself to their camping site and end the lives of Russell and Carol. Was she living on a property and had access to a gun? How would she alone be able to dispose of the two bodies? Who helped the wife or did she pay somebody else to do it? Why didn't Russell just leave his wife and live with Carol? Was it because of religion eg Catholic?

We don't know. Only that he suddenly decided he couldn't leave ... "at the last minute" (or something along those lines). He must have been serious about it, if Carol went ahead and divorced her husband to be with Russell. That divorce didn't happen overnight. And Russell obviously told at least one of his friends about it.

I wonder what happened that made Russell hold off on leaving his wife, something that Carol was understanding about. Kept seeing him, and going away with him.
He may have tried to tell his wife, and all heck broke loose, so he backed down and decided to wait for a while. We just don't know.

IMO

 

[Estelle]

Carol told family she was going camping alone but did not tell her friends.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Or maybe he thought he just couldn't do it to her, after so long together. Or maybe she had health problems.
Or yes, maybe he tried but backed down.
We just don't know.

He may have tried to tell his wife, and all heck broke loose, so he backed down and decided to wait for a while. We just don't know.

 

[srper2]

It’s a possibility they went camping with someone else who is denying ever being there? Any cameras along the route checked to ‘place’ the other vehicle being in convoy or travelling toward the same area?

I recon the cops know who it was and they are crossing some T’s before pouncing, like they did with Ristevski. Whatever vehicle could’ve moved Russell & Carol which might lead them to their bodies.
Phone pings?

The person could be known or might be a couple of drunken yahoos who accidentally shot them. Some idiots will shoot at anything that moves and don’t realise how far a bullet travels.
I dunno but I’d bet the cops do.

Yes, I have started wondering if someone accidentally shot them, or one of them, then quickly got rid of both and moved bodies and burnt any evidence. Apparently they weren't staying in the designated camping area and police have said that there were quite a few hunters in the area that weekend, but for some reason not one of them has come forward to speak to them. Did police check for any spent casings in the surrounding area? It doesn't seem that the car had any bullet holes. I have been into remote areas around Vic and have found many spent casings left in designated camping areas. I have often wondered what would happen if the shooters had not known someone was camping a little away and the shooters didn't notice them, how easily they could accidentally shoot them while being idiots in the night. Why has nobody who was there at the time come forward? Only one hiker who found and reported the burned tent. Usually people with nothing to hide want to help.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, I have started wondering if someone accidentally shot them, or one of them, then quickly got rid of both and moved bodies and burnt any evidence. Apparently they weren't staying in the designated camping area and police have said that there were quite a few hunters in the area that weekend, but for some reason not one of them has come forward to speak to them. Did police check for any spent casings in the surrounding area? It doesn't seem that the car had any bullet holes. I have been into remote areas around Vic and have found many spent casings left in designated camping areas. I have often wondered what would happen if the shooters had not known someone was camping a little away and the shooters didn't notice them, how easily they could accidentally shoot them while being idiots in the night. Why has nobody who was there at the time come forward? Only one hiker who found and reported the burned tent. Usually people with nothing to hide want to help.

Police said they have spoken with some people. Whether the people came forward, or the police went to them, it wasn't said. It is in a video or article I linked a little further back. They also know people from 5 states were in that area. They have been working on this a lot, apparently, and have found quite a bit of info, it seems.

 

[Estelle]

I predict that once Carol had bought her new apartment (perhaps after her divorce settlement), it would have been quite likely that Russell and Carol had planned to live there together in the future so the wife could have felt threatened with separation and that she would lose the family home and have to move somewhere else so she hatched a plan with the assistance of someone else.

 

[srper2]

Based on the various news reports about Mr. Buttons, I think he is a ritualistic type of person and enjoys repetitious forms of activity. Adding to his time consuming occupation of making buttons out of deer horns, he's also known to keep track of vehicles driving through the valley by stacking rocks... each time a vehicle drives down a road he is monitoring, he places another rock on his rock pile. He doesn't appear to be intimidating to the locals in the valley --as locals who were interviewed by news media painted Mr. Buttons as harmless and eccentric. I think he's also pretty clever with lots of survival skills and probably wouldn't jeopardize his free wheeling lifestyle by committing murder, imo.

Maybe he should also start carving Netsuke!

 

[SouthAussie]

I predict that once Carol had bought her new apartment (perhaps after her divorce settlement), it would have been quite likely that Russell and Carol had planned to live there together in the future so the wife could have felt threatened with separation and that she would lose the family home and have to move somewhere else so she hatched a plan with the assistance of someone else.

Yes, that could have been a catalyst. Carol's new home. It is one thing that we know changed. And we know that Russell went there as Carol's neighbour said "I've seen him a lot, nice guy". Or something along those lines.

 

[trujac]

Maybe he should also start carving Netsuke!

Yes, lol. He apparently has the skills...probably could make a very nice living selling his hand carved netsukes.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am still curious as to why detectives in Sale are involved. (As per the presser.) Does someone connected to this case live in that area, I wonder.

Or maybe they are investigating the sightings. They say they need - or needed - to eliminate those. And Sale is closer to those areas.



An older woman seen at Black Snake Creek who was waiting for other campers to finish using a long-drop toilet.
An older couple seen driving away from Black Snake Creek Hut — the woman was wearing lipstick and "looked out of place".
An older couple near Eaglevale River crossing and campsite.

Police say they are trying to eliminate people and vehicles from the investigation.
High Country mystery deepens as police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers

 

[trujac]

Yes, I have started wondering if someone accidentally shot them, or one of them, then quickly got rid of both and moved bodies and burnt any evidence. Apparently they weren't staying in the designated camping area and police have said that there were quite a few hunters in the area that weekend, but for some reason not one of them has come forward to speak to them. Did police check for any spent casings in the surrounding area? It doesn't seem that the car had any bullet holes. I have been into remote areas around Vic and have found many spent casings left in designated camping areas. I have often wondered what would happen if the shooters had not known someone was camping a little away and the shooters didn't notice them, how easily they could accidentally shoot them while being idiots in the night. Why has nobody who was there at the time come forward? Only one hiker who found and reported the burned tent. Usually people with nothing to hide want to help.

In earlier news reports there was some discussion that someone passing through the area of RH and CC's campsite the morning after they pitched it--didn't see them there, but nothing looked out of the ordinary. Later, the next person(s) driving by noticed the burnt campsite, and contacted LE. The window of time between people seeing the campsite fine, and then noticing the campsite burnt down is somewhat murky. But what I find interesting is in both reports RH and CC were not at their campsite. That suggests to me RH and CC left their campsite the following morning--most likely never returned before their campsite burned down. My gut feeling is they are somewhere dead in relative proximity to their camping area having succumb to injury.

 

[Black-Cat]

I am still curious as to why detectives in Sale are involved. (As per the presser.) Does someone connected to this case live in that area, I wonder.

Or maybe they are investigating the sightings. They say they need - or needed - to eliminate those. And Sale is closer to those areas.



An older woman seen at Black Snake Creek who was waiting for other campers to finish using a long-drop toilet.
An older couple seen driving away from Black Snake Creek Hut — the woman was wearing lipstick and "looked out of place".
An older couple near Eaglevale River crossing and campsite.

Police say they are trying to eliminate people and vehicles from the investigation.
High Country mystery deepens as police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers

I think it would have to get be Sale or Bairnsdale as they are the closest major places it’s their jurisdiction.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh yes that is one thing that changed. Carol bought a new place.
Had she still been living in the house she had shared with her ex ?
Were Russell and Carol finally going to live together ?

Did Russell or was Russell going to put in any of the money for the new place, if they had indeed planned to live there together.

 

[srper2]

Yes, lol. He apparently has the skills...probably could make a very nice living selling his hand carved netsukes.

Yes, people would have to hope they ran into Mr Buttons to then see if he would sell them an original "Mr Buttons" Netsuke!

 

[Estelle]

Sorry but I don't seem to be able to quote. Can someone help me? So I'll do it like this:

Trujac said:

In earlier news reports there was some discussion that someone passing through the area of RH and CC's campsite the morning after they pitched it--didn't see them there, but nothing looked out of the ordinary. Later, the next person(s) driving by noticed the burnt campsite, and contacted LE. The window of time between people seeing the campsite fine, and then noticing the campsite burnt down is somewhat murky. But what I find interesting is in both reports RH and CC were not at their campsite. That suggests to me RH and CC left their campsite the following morning--most likely never returned before their campsite burned down. My gut feeling is they are somewhere dead in relative proximity to their camping area having succumb to injury.

My gut feeling is different to yours in that I feel that RH and CC were abducted from their campsite the night before at gunpoint (or with some sort of weapon) and were murdered and buried somewhere else so their bodies would never be found. Then the next day, in between these two sightings, the murderer/s came back and burnt their campsite to destroy any other evidence.

If they died in "relative proximity to their camping area having succumbed to injury", as you say, surely they would have been found by now in the searches.

 

[srper2]

I am still curious as to why detectives in Sale are involved. (As per the presser.) Does someone connected to this case live in that area, I wonder.

Or maybe they are investigating the sightings. They say they need - or needed - to eliminate those. And Sale is closer to those areas.



An older woman seen at Black Snake Creek who was waiting for other campers to finish using a long-drop toilet.
An older couple seen driving away from Black Snake Creek Hut — the woman was wearing lipstick and "looked out of place".
An older couple near Eaglevale River crossing and campsite.

Police say they are trying to eliminate people and vehicles from the investigation.
High Country mystery deepens as police investigate 'new sightings' of missing campers

Hmm, wonder if the police have checked the long drop toilets, given they are now wondering if CC and RH may have been "carted out" from their campsite and disposed of elsewhere?

 

[Kemug]

Yes, I agree with those who think that Carol's new home could have been a catalyst for their disappearance. It is a change shortly before that we definitely know about. She had only moved in a couple of weeks before, I think? (and if the neighbour had seen Russell frequently, it sounds like he might have been visiting practically every day.) It may be possible that although Russell had backed out before, he was now ready to publicly move in with Carol. Which would certainly be a catalyst!