Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

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they'll get you said:
Det Insp Andrew Stamper appeals for assistance

No Cookies | Herald Sun
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So, DI Stamper says they are releasing this info now because they need the public's help. And with it being a long weekend, some may be going up to the high country.
(Maybe hoping that the vehicle will be going to the high country as well?)
 
Looking at satellite images of where they were camping it is in between Mount Buller and Selwyn. They were in the middle of nowhere and it seems very unlikely they will ever be found.

I think they have been murdered with at least 2-3 perpetrators who were armed. I think the perps live relatively "local" I am leaning towards the illegal hunters.

Maybe Police can offer an amnesty if they come forward to identify themselves without fear of prosecution for the hunting and then they could be ruled out?? If nobody comes forward the probability it was them involved jumps up don't you think? I think the scattered credit cards and wallets in the car are just a decoy.
 
I feel the illegal hunters theory is plausible; probably the most plausible, occam's-razor-fulfilling, if-you-hear-hoofbeats-it's-horses-not-zebras theory so far. Illegal hunters have the means (ample access to guns, knowledge of the area), motive (getting rid of witnesses and their photographic evidence of the illegal acts), and opportunity (middle of the night in the middle of nowhere). The fire simply hid the evidence of what happened to them, pretty successfully I'd say. They probably took the credit cards on an impulse but weren't dumb enough to actually use them.

If I had to guess I'd say they saw Russell with the drone and even if he hadn't taken any images of them, they confronted him at some point about it and he refused to hand it over and they came back in the middle of the night while they were asleep and ambushed them.
 
Eloise said:
I feel the illegal hunters theory is plausible; probably the most plausible, occam's-razor-fulfilling, if-you-hear-hoofbeats-it's-horses-not-zebras theory so far. Illegal hunters have the means (ample access to guns, knowledge of the area), motive (getting rid of witnesses and their photographic evidence of the illegal acts), and opportunity (middle of the night in the middle of nowhere). The fire simply hid the evidence of what happened to them, pretty successfully I'd say. They probably took the credit cards on an impulse but weren't dumb enough to actually use them.

If I had to guess I'd say they saw Russell with the drone and even if he hadn't taken any images of them, they confronted him at some point about it and he refused to hand it over and they came back in the middle of the night while they were asleep and ambushed them.
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Yes, I think it sounds like exactly what they are thinking ... the Under Investigation Team ... except probably while Russell and Carol were still awake.
They made a point of speaking about Russell's boots. Gone. So he probably was awake and wearing them.
And the musterer said likely hunters who were spotlighting.
 
Maybe they were asleep when they were awakened by the sound of another car close by, Russell quickly put his boots on and found these creeps ransacking his car.

I wish either Russell or Carol were able to leave a mark on whoever attacked them. Maybe they did.


SouthAussie said:
They made a point of speaking about Russell's boots. Gone. So he probably was awake and wearing them.
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TootsieFootsie said:
Maybe they were asleep when they were awakened by the sound of another car close by, Russell quickly put his boots on and found these creeps ransacking his car.

I wish either Russell or Carol were able to leave a mark on whoever attacked them. Maybe they did.
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You'd think the person who was camped close-ish by might have heard something. Sound travels at night. Maybe he did and has explained what he heard. Or maybe he is too scared to speak of anything.
 
Eloise said:
I feel the illegal hunters theory is plausible; probably the most plausible, occam's-razor-fulfilling, if-you-hear-hoofbeats-it's-horses-not-zebras theory so far. Illegal hunters have the means (ample access to guns, knowledge of the area), motive (getting rid of witnesses and their photographic evidence of the illegal acts), and opportunity (middle of the night in the middle of nowhere). The fire simply hid the evidence of what happened to them, pretty successfully I'd say. They probably took the credit cards on an impulse but weren't dumb enough to actually use them.

If I had to guess I'd say they saw Russell with the drone and even if he hadn't taken any images of them, they confronted him at some point about it and he refused to hand it over and they came back in the middle of the night while they were asleep and ambushed them.
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It does seem possible, but in that scenario, I feel like there must have been some kind of confrontation where maybe Russell was shot in an over-reaction: Cold-bloodedly, after reflection, returning to kill two people is an extremely drastic action, I'm pretty sure illegal hunters know they wouldn't be prosecuted very severely for poaching, compared with what they'd get for double murder.

I wonder what Russell's personality was like, in terms of how he might react to conflict. Say, if he suspected people of illegal hunting, or if someone was angry about the way he'd used his drone.
 
Satchie said:
It does seem possible, but in that scenario, I feel like there must have been some kind of confrontation where maybe Russell was shot in an over-reaction: Cold-bloodedly, after reflection, returning to kill two people is an extremely drastic action, I'm pretty sure illegal hunters know they wouldn't be prosecuted very severely for poaching, compared with what they'd get for double murder.

I wonder what Russell's personality was like, in terms of how he might react to conflict. Say, if he suspected people of illegal hunting, or if someone was angry about the way he'd used his drone.
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And it probably doesn't even have to be Russell's feelings that caused a confrontation ... if Carol was outraged at the illegal hunting and deer being left to die. Maybe took a few pictures to try to do something about it.

Russell's friend said he is the type to have defended Carol through thick and thin. That Russell is a big guy who is not afraid to stand up to someone else.
 
srper2 said:
Apparently there are organised crime gangs involved in the deer poaching up there too:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...dy-count-piles-up-police-20150112-12memw.html
Also, looking back on pics, is it possible that there are bullet holes in the side of the 4wd's canopy? Easier to see if you enlarge the 1st pic of the vehicle:
Shocking twist in the case of missing campers as cops say they may have been AMBUSHED | Daily Mail Online
If police could trace the missing campers phones to an area before they reached the valley they should be able to search records of any mobile phones that went past that tower during that time as well and follow up with each one.
I missed the show on tv, but watched it later online, I wish Liz Hayes had talked a little less and let some of the people she had there finish what they were saying as she interrupted them several times and they did not get to say everything they could have said.
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The DM article mentions the deer heads being traded or sold for ice / methamphetamines. So terrible that over 50,000 deer were killed in 2012-2013. Sounds like a huge problem that has been ongoing. I’m thinking Russell was investigating this criminal activity and got caught. Sadly, at this point it seems to be a murder investigation. Jmo
 
JLZ said:
Deer hunting is legal so long as you have a licence. Deer - Game Management Authority
(Edit: though not at night.)
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There are strict rules around how you can hunt deer and there have been ongoing issues with people using spotlights for sambar deer and shooting in dangerous places - such as around campers, along the sides of the road and people's houses. Many of these illegal shooters are also using illicit drugs which impairs their decision making (there are articles about this online). I have always thought the couple could have been accidentally shot by spot lighters who didn't realise they were just in behind the trees and then they panicked and moved the bodies and burnt the site to hide blood splatter etc. I hope police have kept samples of shells from the area and photos of any tyre tracks too.
 
srper2 said:
There are strict rules around how you can hunt deer and there have been ongoing issues with people using spotlights for sambar deer and shooting in dangerous places - such as around campers, along the sides of the road and people's houses. Many of these illegal shooters are also using illicit drugs which impairs their decision making (there are articles about this online). I have always thought the couple could have been accidentally shot by spot lighters who didn't realise they were just in behind the trees and then they panicked and moved the bodies and burnt the site to hide blood splatter etc. I hope police have kept samples of shells from the area and photos of any tyre tracks too.
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Yes, I'm just reading the section on 'ethical hunting'.
 
Has anyone checked the long drop toilets scattered all around the area there? They smell really nasty and bodies could have been dumped there.....close and convenient. I have been assuming this would have been done, but I had also assumed they would have been careful at the original scene to preserve any evidence but it had vehicles driven and parked all around it, things being moved around and people tramping through it from the start.....
 
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