Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020 #2

[JLZ]

Was it confirmed they even had sleeping bags? Two quite elderly people climbing in and out of sleeping bags could be awkward. Maybe they had quilts/blankets and never had sleeping bags? (Quilts are the in thing for some campers now). If they did have sleeping bags and they wandered off looking for the drone and did get lost (phones with them and wearing their shoes), someone who raided their unmanned camp site may have recognised they were expensive sleeping bags, stolen them, gone through the wallets, taken the cards etc. Good 3-4 season down sleeping bags are expensive and often the different brands and models are easily recognised by people familiar with them. RH's wife could have clarified if he had sleeping bags and checked if he took one or two etc. I can't imagine RH getting completely lost in an area he was very familiar with unless he became too unwell to walk or was injured if they were looking for the drone.

Russell's friend who had camped with him and remarked that the condition of the campsite was not typical of Russell's ways also commented on the absence of sleeping bags. Not quite conclusive but persuasive.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

Was it confirmed they even had sleeping bags? Two quite elderly people climbing in and out of sleeping bags could be awkward. Maybe they had quilts/blankets and never had sleeping bags? (Quilts are the in thing for some campers now).

no need to climb in and out of sleeping bags, it’s pretty easy to unzip them.

 

[OzFreelancer]

no need to climb in and out of sleeping bags, it’s pretty easy to unzip them.

As someone who camps in this area a lot with a lot of other people who camp in this area a lot... I don't know a single person who uses a sleeping bag (other than the kids when they come with us). We all use doonas

 

[SouthAussie]

As someone who camps in this area a lot with a lot of other people who camp in this area a lot... I don't know a single person who uses a sleeping bag (other than the kids when they come with us). We all use doonas

When camping, we often use our sleepings bags as a doona - unzip them and lay under them.
In this particular case, I would say that the police are likely not guessing. They will take on board what Russell's friends say, what his wife says.
It is not the first time that Russell and Carol camped together. I believe we read that Russell took Carol on at least one mates trip, so maybe his mates would know.

 

[srper2]

no need to climb in and out of sleeping bags, it’s pretty easy to unzip them.

...And then they have to get in and zip them up again, fine for a young person, but this can be difficult for an elderly person....

 

[Orgona]

...And then they have to get in and zip them up again, fine for a young person, but this can be difficult for an elderly person....

I’m all for an (perceived) elderly person camping, hiking, having fun, enjoying life on their own tempo, but if they are in a shape where zipping up a sleeping bag would be a serious problem, I don’t think they should be camping at a remote location where help is not readily available in case of an injury or health crisis. And I don’t think the persons themselves would be comfortable doing this either.
Although, I know some who behave like a teenager no matter their state of health.

IMHO

 

[buyerninety]

Picture of burnt campsite:
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB14BZvU.img?h=352&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f

About the middle rear of the debris field can be seen -
two near horizontal thick lines possibly converging to join
towards the left, suggestive of a possible foldable table or
foldable bed.
Above where those thick lines may join on the left, can be
seen multiple lines, suggestive of the multiple folds of a
(blue-grey) folded blanket or some type of folded bedding.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

4WD key as police close in on high country suspect.

Might be behind a paywall.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Detectives close in on witness in missing Victorian campers case

Detectives are closing in on a witness almost a year after campers Russell Hill and Carol Clay went missing in the Victorian Alps.
Police have confirmed to 9News that they believe the driver or an owner of a 4WD which was spotted in the area could have been the last person to see the pair, aged 73 and 74, alive.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

As someone who camps in this area a lot with a lot of other people who camp in this area a lot... I don't know a single person who uses a sleeping bag (other than the kids when they come with us). We all use doonas

that’s your personal experience, it doesn’t mean that Carol and Russell or others camping there don’t use sleeping bags.

there has been no mention by police or Russell’s mate about doonas, only about sleeping bags being missing.

 

[buyerninety]

A different picture (from the one cited several
posts back), from a different angle;

https://prod.static9.net.au/fs/c104d219-648a-4826-b874-14855ca18831

(which can be saved as a GIF file), more strongly
suggests we are seeing a foldable table or bed.
The lines of the 'folded blanket or bedding' are
no longer able to be seen, however! A possible
reason is that the first picture was that taken
by people who early chanced upon the site,
whilst the different angle picture was taken
some days later - the 'folded blanket or bedding'
may have been saturated wet by rain and so
flattened out somewhat. Whatever was there
also now appears to be, or to be covered by,
debris. Can't understand that, unless the
'folded blanket or bedding' got superheated
by the high temperature of the fire (but did
not get contacted by flame and so did not get
burnt) and then fell apart over a period of
days by wind action - also possibly over a
period of days the wind blew dried ash onto
it and some stuck on it. Possible? Maybe.

(EDIT: just to be clear, the burning fire you
see in that GIF was inserted as a represent-
ation and is, of course, not a video of the
actual site fire.
Under Investigation examines the High Country mystery: The campfire hiding secrets and the missing drone - what happened to Russell and Carol
)

 

[srper2]

It appears the site was repeatedly moved around and police have said that it wasn't even treated as a crime scene for some time, as they first thought they were looking for lost campers. MOO!!

 

[SouthAussie]

No Cookies | Herald Sun

4WD key as police close in on high country suspect.

Might be behind a paywall.

Thanks, Toots. I will paraphrase a few important things.


The police sought overseas help late last year, to help with sophisticated ways of analysing calls across the whole area. (These sophisticated ways have been developed due to terrorism tracing.)

There are two prongs to the investigation. One is the owner of the white ute (and possibly an accomplice) who are suspicious from trying to be not-suspicious (not coming forward). Also, if he/she/they sold the vehicle, they will move further up the list.

The second prong is the call data as mentioned above. When the investigators contact each and every person who was in the valley over a few days, they will all be asked exactly what they were doing there.
(Sounds as though they might have done a tower dump, and are looking at every single phone number in that dump.)

Police are not relying on the missing sleeping bags as evidence, as many sleeping bags have plastic zips these days, and they might have burned up.

The article walks through the many theories we have spoken of - and ends with "Whoever is in their crosshairs would be wise to come forward before the sledgehammers come through the door."

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks South!

I hope someone somewhere is quaking in their boots, waiting for that knock on the door.

 

[bearbear]

off topic, but does anyone know if a thread is removed for review,
do we get notification if its going to be permanently closed,
or is there a page on ws to look for cancelled threads?

 

[JLZ]

off topic, but does anyone know if a thread is removed for review,
do we get notification if its going to be permanently closed,
or is there a page on ws to look for cancelled threads?

You can do a search for the subject's name and see what threads come up. There might be an announcement, even a new thread. One time when a thread was closed for ages I PM-ed a moderator to ask for news. If you're looking for something now PM me if you like and I'll see if I can help.

 

[Mr Murphy]

Tragic twist in search for missing campers
New Article. Police bringing in cadaver dogs... seems a bit late to me. I am disappointed that they have waited this long for this vital step...

 

[Eloise]

...And then they have to get in and zip them up again, fine for a young person, but this can be difficult for an elderly person....

Gosh, you make it sound like they were imminently due for admission to a nursing home. I know plenty of people in their 70s who are very active indeed and for whom camping is no challenge at all.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks Eloise! You've said what I was thinking but couldn't put into words.

Gosh, you make it sound like they were imminently due for admission to a nursing home. I know plenty of people in their 70s who are very active indeed and for whom camping is no challenge at all.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if LE didn't bring the cadaver dogs in before, ie in the beginning, because they thought Russell and Carol might have just wandered off and were alive, so they used their usual searching methods.