Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[SouthAussie]

I don't believe that Russell was after Carol's money. I do believe they just liked being together.
One paper said that Russell and Carol had been friends for 50 years but I'm not sure if they got that mixed up with Russell and his wife having been married for 50 years.
And it does seem like he wasn't home very much though I could be wrong about that, it's just my impression.
Maybe Russell's wife didn't like camping. I wonder if they ever did go away camping together ?

Yes, Russell's family said that Carol had been a family friend for a long time. Carol would have been well aware that Russell was married. Though he may have been unhappily still married.

Russell is our brother, husband, dad and pa and Carol has been a friend of the family for a long time.
Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

 

[TootsieFootsie]

If they did fall somewhere into a shaft or a sink hole, I hope that it was quick and they didn't suffer for too long

 

[Scrubbyd]

Hey guys

just thought I’d give my take having been travelling the high country for the last 10 years.

It is remote and harsh to access (last trip into Wonnangatta we busted a steering rack ball joint on one vehicle, and 2 front leaf shackle pins on another going down Zika spur)

having said that the valley can get extremely busy and crowded during peak times.

This wasn’t a peak time but I have no doubt campers would of been camped at the Wonnangatta valley campgrounds to the east of the old home stead.

As there’s a group known as “friends of Wonnangatta” who are regularly in the area

They would of been to far away to notice the fire.

From what I’ve gathered from articles RH and CC were camped on dry river track. This is a dead end track about 3km long. It is a flat track mainly surrounded by moderate scrub apart from one clearing where you could comfortably camp. This is the only reasonable place to camp on that track (it’s next to the hunters cross a hunter who was shot accidentally in the 90’s)

At the end of dry creek track there is 2 walking tracks (bicentennial National trail) that split off, these track immediately become steep with thick brush either side of the track.

I think that RH crashed his drone into this thick scrub between these two tracks, (it’s the point where the hills begin and it stops being flat) knowing the walking tracks were there he and CC set off to find it, I know it’s been said he wasn’t know for venturing far from camp but if you crash a $2k drone you’re going to go after it.

The high country is littered with undocumented uncapped mine shafts, literally thousands of them covered by overgrowth. They could of possibly fallen into one or become lost and succumbed to the elements (that time of year and their age could of only taken days).

the scrub out there is so thick that a rescue team would have to stand on them to find them. They could be meters away and no one would of known.

I believe the fire was just a freak accident (like has been mentioned earlier a stove left on or possibly an unattended campfire, if they had one) while they rushed off to find the drone.

ive attached a photo of the map of their location

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Wow thanks for your valuable insight and taking the time and trouble to give us your thoughts, Scrubbyd.

It makes complete sense to me that they have could fallen into a disused mine shaft, though I thought there were none in that area.
At least that's what I've read, maybe here ? Not sure if I read that in the media?
. And yes I would think you would make an extra effort to retrieve your new $2000 toy, even if you did have heart problems.
I think you would put a bit more effort into it and perhaps walk further, maybe into the scrub, maybe give all you have in you to get it back. And you find yourself hopelessly lost, perhaps you have a heart attack, or stumble around, the ground gives way and you both fall into that disused mine shaft, no way to get out, no way to call for help. You went too far off the beaten track.

I believe it could have happened like that. In my mind I've ruled out them running away together. I haven't totally ruled out that they may have been accidentally killed by hunters, then disposed of. It's not so unbelievable that it could have happened like that.
I haven't totally ruled out that they saw something, ie it didn't have to be a drug crop, it could have been a meeting where drugs were exchanged.
People don't just vanish into thin air, and I'm pretty sure they didn't go up with the drone. So it's either they have been taken away, or more likely it was just an awful accident and they are there down inside a mine shaft or a sink hole.
Maybe they managed to get hold of the drone at the last moment and in the excitement didn't notice the ground beneath them being a bit unsteady. Maybe the drone is with them, and that's why it hasn't been found.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Wow thanks for your valuable insight and taking the time and trouble to give us your thoughts, Scrubbyd.

It makes complete sense to me that they have could fallen into a disused mine shaft, though I thought there were none in that area.
At least that's what I've read, maybe here ? Not sure if I read that in the media?
. And yes I would think you would make an extra effort to retrieve your new $2000 toy, even if you did have heart problems.
I think you would put a bit more effort into it and perhaps walk further, maybe into the scrub, maybe give all you have in you to get it back. And you find yourself hopelessly lost, perhaps you have a heart attack, or stumble around, the ground gives way and you both fall into that disused mine shaft, no way to get out, no way to call for help. You went too far off the beaten track.

I believe it could have happened like that. In my mind I've ruled out them running away together. I haven't totally ruled out that they may have been accidentally killed by hunters, then disposed of. It's not so unbelievable that it could have happened like that.
I haven't totally ruled out that they saw something, ie it didn't have to be a drug crop, it could have been a meeting where drugs were exchanged.
People don't just vanish into thin air, and I'm pretty sure they didn't go up with the drone. So it's either they have been taken away, or more likely it was just an awful accident and they are there down inside a mine shaft or a sink hole.
Maybe they managed to get hold of the drone at the last moment and in the excitement didn't notice the ground beneath them being a bit unsteady. Maybe the drone is with them, and that's why it hasn't been found.

Yes but what about the tiny blood splatters found after a second search? But for blood, mine shafts could very well be the answer.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

First i've heard about blood spatters.
Thought I had read everything about this case and don't recall reading or hearing anything about blood being found ?

 

[Scrubbyd]

Wow thanks for your valuable insight and taking the time and trouble to give us your thoughts, Scrubbyd.

It makes complete sense to me that they have could fallen into a disused mine shaft, though I thought there were none in that area.
At least that's what I've read, maybe here ? Not sure if I read that in the media?
. And yes I would think you would make an extra effort to retrieve your new $2000 toy, even if you did have heart problems.
I think you would put a bit more effort into it and perhaps walk further, maybe into the scrub, maybe give all you have in you to get it back. And you find yourself hopelessly lost, perhaps you have a heart attack, or stumble around, the ground gives way and you both fall into that disused mine shaft, no way to get out, no way to call for help. You went too far off the beaten track.

I believe it could have happened like that. In my mind I've ruled out them running away together. I haven't totally ruled out that they may have been accidentally killed by hunters, then disposed of. It's not so unbelievable that it could have happened like that.
I haven't totally ruled out that they saw something, ie it didn't have to be a drug crop, it could have been a meeting where drugs were exchanged.
People don't just vanish into thin air, and I'm pretty sure they didn't go up with the drone. So it's either they have been taken away, or more likely it was just an awful accident and they are there down inside a mine shaft or a sink hole.
Maybe they managed to get hold of the drone at the last moment and in the excitement didn't notice the ground beneath them being a bit unsteady. Maybe the drone is with them, and that's why it hasn't been found.

Cheers TootsieFootsie

"We know that he had spent quite a bit of time up here and he was described to us as being quite meticulous when camping," Acting Inspector Dave Fyfe said.

"With that in mind we don't believe he would have come up here unprepared."

Some of the old mine shafts in the area have been checked as part of the investigation, which has been taken over by Missing Persons Squad detectives.“

A quote from an early ABC news article.

I personally haven’t come across mine shafts in the Wonnangatta area, but I also haven’t been looking for them. I have come across them in the Dargo area which is nearby. Again I stress the dangers of the high country even for the most prepared traveler. I have nearly stepped in a mine shaft when we ventured off the marked track looking for an un documented diversion tunnel. I have had friends freeze mid step as there was a brown snake not even a foot in front of them.

Russell would of known the dangers of leaving any marked track but I feel the cost of the drone may have been a contributing factor in him going after it.

As has been shown time and time again with dense bush land if you leave Your vehicle or the main tracks the chances of being found alive or dead are slim.

On top of that the wild dogs in the area would make short work of any human remains.

For the drug deal theory or seeing something illegal go down between two parties I have a hard time comprehending, there is literally 4 hours of the 6 hour drive to the valley where you wouldn’t see a soul, you could literally stop your car on the track crack a beer in the middle of the track finish it get back in your car and drink the other 5 out of the 6 pack and still not see anyone. Anyone who wanted to meet for illegal reason would be better off doing it at a location closer to themselves saves a 10-12 hour return drive and a bucket load of fuel.

I am keen for the seasonal track closures to open so I can access the valley again as I would like to locate the exact camp where RH and CC camped and take some photos to upload here

 

[JLZ]

First i've heard about blood spatters.
Thought I had read everything about this case and don't recall reading or hearing anything about blood being found ?

I think I read of tiny amounts of blood being found in the car on a repeat search. I've Google-searched for an article on the case with "blood" in it but haven't found that again. I would think it's not unusual for someone's car to have traces of their blood in it. Especially in amounts not visible except by forensic examination.

 

[SouthAussie]

First i've heard about blood spatters.
Thought I had read everything about this case and don't recall reading or hearing anything about blood being found ?

At one point I said what if the police found tiny bits of blood during their second forensic testing of Russell's vehicle.
I haven't actually read that they did find any. I was just wondering because I was trying to work out why they are saying that foul play could be involved.


"Foul play is now the most likely scenario in the High Country mystery of missing friends Russell Hill and Carol Clay, police believe."



Category: | Herald Sun

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery

Russell, 74, and Carol, 73, had given slightly different return dates to their families, a point Inspector Stamper puts down to Russell having a fairly flexible schedule.

It’s also true that Russell’s family, including his wife, thought he was camping alone.

Friends say since Russell’s retirement two years ago, he’s been known to head off on solo road trips.

It was only with his disappearance that those close to him learnt that Carol, a former Country Women’s Association president, was on some of those getaways.

After their disappearance, police were asked if the pair, who have reportedly known each other for more than 20 years, could have run away together.
It’s a prospect Inspector Stamper sees as “highly unlikely”.

“I mean these were two people who were very close with their families, had good, independent, comfortable lives,” he says.

 

[Kemug]

Hello everyone, I just took a little break, and hoped that an amazing idea might strike me - well no, it didn't. But I'm glad to see that you great people are still beavering away at this mystery, and putting forward some new ideas. I'm starting to home in on the drone being a major factor in whatever happened - either by starting the fire, or by getting lost (but we can't have it both ways!) Also I keep remembering that Russell had a heart condition (though it hasn't been mentioned lately), and that could well have created some sort of situation - including Ramjet's idea of someone driving them to help, and going off the road. Too many possibilities, too few believable solutions.

 

[JLZ]

At one point I said what if the police found tiny bits of blood during their second forensic testing of Russell's vehicle.
I haven't actually read that they did find any. I was just wondering because I was trying to work out why they are saying that foul play could be involved.


"Foul play is now the most likely scenario in the High Country mystery of missing friends Russell Hill and Carol Clay, police believe."

View attachment 257760

Category: | Herald Sun

Thank you! I would have thought I could remember the difference between a comment--hypothetical at that--and an article I'd read, but apparently not!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I nearly posted something here the other day, different case, a cold case.
I thought it was new information but just before I posted I did a search and it was posted years ago. I had forgotten it. I like to think I have a good memory but not in that case. I guess we can't remember everything...forever.
Maybe my brain had to jettison that bit of info to make room for the new stuff LOL

 

[SouthAussie]

So, it appears that Russell and Carol were teenage sweethearts. When they reconnected Carol divorced her 2nd husband to be with Russell. But Russell backed out of that.

I wonder if there is some kind of foul play motive there, that we are unaware of. Why did Russell back out, and yet obviously kept caring about and seeing Carol. Perhaps he had now decided to join Carol in her new home .... maybe?



“Carol was never ever brought on radio club trips. And apparently Carol’s been around the scene for 20 years, on and off,” Mr Ashlin said.

Mr Ashlin said the two were reportedly teenage sweethearts before splitting up.

He says Ms Clay lost her first husband but married for a second time before allegedly divorcing her husband to be with Mr Hill.

“But Russell backed out at the last minute,” Mr Ashlin claimed.

Mr Ashlin believes the couple has been murdered.

“I think they’ve been murdered”
30 July 2020

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Oh wow, when I read that article saying they'd known each other for 20 years, I thought the other articles that said they'd know each for over 50 years was wrong !

Wow!

 

[SouthAussie]

I am not sure when this presser was - others may have seen it before, but I hadn't - The Advertiser just uploaded it 2 hours ago.

Hopefully people can access it via this link. I was able to.

No Cookies | The Advertiser

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Was this all before he married his wife, or during it ?
I mean Carol leaving her husband for Russell.

 

[SouthAussie]

Was this all before he married his wife, or during it ?
I mean Carol leaving her husband for Russell.

I have a feeling it was during his marriage. If they reconnected 20 years ago, and Russell has been married for 50 years ...


His wife of 50 years, Robyn, previously told the Herald Sun she had no idea her husband was out camping with another woman.
Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No one has mentioned if his wife ever went on trips with him, or was a member of the radio club.
Either before or after his retirement 2 years ago.

I wonder how many other people knew about Carol and Russell knowing each other and reportedly being teenage sweethearts.
Or about the trips away.

 

[JLZ]

So where is Mr Ashlin getting his information from? It's "apparently" about R & C having been more or less together for 20 years, but he claims to know their ancient history and Carol's reason for leaving her husband.