Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

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Black-Cat said:
Yes, that’s probably it ‘I’m off camping tonight’ .... code for I’m staying at Carols tonight!
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I reckon that would of been likely for many of their rendezvous, CC lived alone and her neighbour I think was familiar with RH.
However on March 11-13 LE say RH was alone and seem to have traced him quite specifically, asking for public information about two particular bush tracks.

Source: A Current Affair Article
"Following an extensive investigation, detectives are widening the net of people they want to talk to and say they are particularly interested in hearing from anyone who passed or stayed in the following areas:

  • King Billy and Bluff Track between March 11 and March 13, where Russell camped alone;
  • Howitt Plains and Zeka Spur Track between March 19 and March 20; and
  • Wonnangatta Valley and Wonnangatta Station between March 20-24."
Source: Herald Sun Article
"Something that puzzles Mr Ashlin about the mystery is why Mr Hill went camping alone in the area of the King Billy and Bluff Track between March 11 and 13 before the pair’s trip.

“He never said boo about it, it was a surprise,” he said.

“I don’t know why he went on that trip, it was only an overnight stay, and a six-hour drive each way. There is something strange about it. Robyn can’t work it out either.”"
 
TootsieFootsie said:
I agree with it not being murder/suicide.

I would like to think they took off somewhere for a new life together but sadly I don't believe that's what happened.

I think it's either an accident, but then where are they ?
Or foul play. possibly they came across someone or more who were up to something illegal. Possibly the drone captured something on camera.
Or they were shot by hunter/s accidentally.
Click to expand...

Or maybe something closer to home.
Paul_Pry said:
I reckon that would of been likely for many of their rendezvous, CC lived alone and her neighbour I think was familiar with RH.
However on March 11-13 LE say RH was alone and seem to have traced him quite specifically, asking for public information about two particular bush tracks.

Source: A Current Affair Article
"Following an extensive investigation, detectives are widening the net of people they want to talk to and say they are particularly interested in hearing from anyone who passed or stayed in the following areas:

  • King Billy and Bluff Track between March 11 and March 13, where Russell camped alone;
  • Howitt Plains and Zeka Spur Track between March 19 and March 20; and
  • Wonnangatta Valley and Wonnangatta Station between March 20-24."
Source: Herald Sun Article
"Something that puzzles Mr Ashlin about the mystery is why Mr Hill went camping alone in the area of the King Billy and Bluff Track between March 11 and 13 before the pair’s trip.

“He never said boo about it, it was a surprise,” he said.

“I don’t know why he went on that trip, it was only an overnight stay, and a six-hour drive each way. There is something strange about it. Robyn can’t work it out either.”"
Click to expand...
 
Now that we seem to have clarified that Russell's visit the previous weekend was for 2 nights, it may well be that it has no significance at all to the case. He probably often went up there when he had a couple of nights to spare. So we have only one weekend to think about, which should simplify things. But it now needs LE to find enough evidence to take it further.
 
Kemug said:
Now that we seem to have clarified that Russell's visit the previous weekend was for 2 nights, it may well be that it has no significance at all to the case. He probably often went up there when he had a couple of nights to spare. So we have only one weekend to think about, which should simplify things. But it now needs LE to find enough evidence to take it further.
Click to expand...

March 11-13 wasn't a weekend it was Wednesday - Friday. I'm guessing he was probably retired so didn't need to worry about weekends.
 
Wow I stopped keeping up with this thread for a few weeks and I’ve come back to about 15 pages of new posts! Lots of interesting new thoughts and ideas to think about!
I have a few thoughts on some of your posts but sorry I’m not going to go back thru to find the original posts It’s too hard now, hopefully I can make sense without them

The fire:
Someone mentioned the possibility of lighting the campsite on fire to raise alarm, I think this has been theorised a few times in this thread. I don’t think this is likely at all. We’ve already sort of narrowed down whatever happened happening between the evening-morning, so it was likely dark, so if there were campers nearby you would know it! You would see their campfire and lights etc (remembering it’s a big open area, you can see for a long way, especially lights in the dark) so wouldn’t you just scream for help? Another fire wouldn’t be alarming at all, campers far enough away to not hear you scream would see a distant glow and assume it’s a campfire, nothing unusual.

RH’s wealth:
A few posts were questioning if it is likely that a logger/labourer would be able to afford a landcruiser and drone. I don’t think there’s any reason to suspect he couldn’t afford nice things legitimately. Property prices in the melbourne suburbs have increased so much in the last few decades that lots of older couples who purchased property when they were young are now sitting on very expensive land (ie. could sell and move into something cheaper or take out a mortgage on the house to buy a new vehicle etc) plus if he and his wife’s parents owned property that would be a big inheritance. On top of that a labourer/logger could have earned good money throughout his life.

Murder/Suicide theory:
I don’t completely rule this out, I think only Russell’s wife could say whether he had a personality capable of it (or carols immediate family if you want to flip it). But I would like to know if either of them had access to firearms and if so are any missing?? Most murder/suicides I have heard of the perpetrator uses a gun. I think a missing gun would be a massive red flag in this direction and LE would be all over it. Without a gun I don’t see it happening.

Hunters:
I’m not sure who first mentioned the possibility of an accidental shooting by a hunter but I actually like this theory. When I have been camping I have occasionally considered the danger of being accidentally shot by a hunter (particularly when I duck into the Bush to go to the toilet ) some younger blokes in particular can be very trigger happy and it has sadly happened at times that someone has accidentally been shot because the hunter didn’t correctly identify his target. (This actually happened in my own town a few years ago). But say this happened to either RH or CC, particularly if it was one or two younger guys out hunting (possibly illegally), they’ve realised what they’ve done and panicked, maybe even remember seeing a drone flying over them earlier (potentially capturing footage of them or their vehicle etc) and in that panicked high stress state decide they don’t want to go to prison, they are alone, there’s no other campers nearby, no one else has seen what they’ve done, why not just get rid of the evidence, which includes another person? Bury the bodies, steal the drone and burn the campsite incase their are other cameras or phones with potential footage linking them to the area and to create more confusion. It’s possible IMO
 
Steffy_jade said:
Wow I stopped keeping up with this thread for a few weeks and I’ve come back to about 15 pages of new posts! Lots of interesting new thoughts and ideas to think about!
I have a few thoughts on some of your posts but sorry I’m not going to go back thru to find the original posts It’s too hard now, hopefully I can make sense without them

The fire:
Someone mentioned the possibility of lighting the campsite on fire to raise alarm, I think this has been theorised a few times in this thread. I don’t think this is likely at all. We’ve already sort of narrowed down whatever happened happening between the evening-morning, so it was likely dark, so if there were campers nearby you would know it! You would see their campfire and lights etc (remembering it’s a big open area, you can see for a long way, especially lights in the dark) so wouldn’t you just scream for help? Another fire wouldn’t be alarming at all, campers far enough away to not hear you scream would see a distant glow and assume it’s a campfire, nothing unusual.

RH’s wealth:
A few posts were questioning if it is likely that a logger/labourer would be able to afford a landcruiser and drone. I don’t think there’s any reason to suspect he couldn’t afford nice things legitimately. Property prices in the melbourne suburbs have increased so much in the last few decades that lots of older couples who purchased property when they were young are now sitting on very expensive land (ie. could sell and move into something cheaper or take out a mortgage on the house to buy a new vehicle etc) plus if he and his wife’s parents owned property that would be a big inheritance. On top of that a labourer/logger could have earned good money throughout his life.

Murder/Suicide theory:
I don’t completely rule this out, I think only Russell’s wife could say whether he had a personality capable of it (or carols immediate family if you want to flip it). But I would like to know if either of them had access to firearms and if so are any missing?? Most murder/suicides I have heard of the perpetrator uses a gun. I think a missing gun would be a massive red flag in this direction and LE would be all over it. Without a gun I don’t see it happening.

Hunters:
I’m not sure who first mentioned the possibility of an accidental shooting by a hunter but I actually like this theory. When I have been camping I have occasionally considered the danger of being accidentally shot by a hunter (particularly when I duck into the Bush to go to the toilet ) some younger blokes in particular can be very trigger happy and it has sadly happened at times that someone has accidentally been shot because the hunter didn’t correctly identify his target. (This actually happened in my own town a few years ago). But say this happened to either RH or CC, particularly if it was one or two younger guys out hunting (possibly illegally), they’ve realised what they’ve done and panicked, maybe even remember seeing a drone flying over them earlier (potentially capturing footage of them or their vehicle etc) and in that panicked high stress state decide they don’t want to go to prison, they are alone, there’s no other campers nearby, no one else has seen what they’ve done, why not just get rid of the evidence, which includes another person? Bury the bodies, steal the drone and burn the campsite incase their are other cameras or phones with potential footage linking them to the area and to create more confusion. It’s possible IMO
Click to expand...

Good points! Yes, guns may be the answer, and hopefully LE are working hard to get some answers about that.
 
Kemug said:
Good points! Yes, guns may be the answer, and hopefully LE are working hard to get some answers about that.
Click to expand...

Perhaps that is why they started suspecting foul play. After more detailed forensic examination of the campsite/vehicle, a few micro spots of blood spatter were detected. Remembering that Russell's vehicle was taken away later on for further examination.


Mr Hill's car was returned to the home he shared with his wife of 50 years, before it was seized again by police for further forensic testing.
'Oddball' bushman known as 'Button Man' among those questioned after sightings of missing Victorian campers
 
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ounting-mountain-mystery-20200521-p54v4p.html


They say no one knows he is near until he decides to make himself known. A wildlife photographer spent days taking shots in the area near the Button-Man’s camp. When he returned home and downloaded his photos to his computer there was one unexplained shot of the photographer asleep inside his tent. No one knows who took the shot.
Many campers and hunters have stories of the Button-Man emerging from the dark and approaching them at campsites. He is described as around 70, with short grey hair, wearing dark jackets and "bloody scary". Others say he is “spooky”, but no one reports any threats or violence.
 
Button Man has been interviewed by Police and they don't believe he was involved.

That doesn't mean there isn't another/others who could have been involved.

I wasn't thinking so much about both being shot. With Russell's heart issues, he may have confronted someone who was doing the wrong thing and with an argument and a bit of argy, bargy, he collapsed and died. They wouldn't necessarily know that his collapse/death was due to a dodgy heart. Carol may have just been a matter of "collateral damage" in the heat of the moment and panic.
 
Good find with the latest article Loxoli, there is some very interesting new info in it.

  • Russell built Zeka Spur Track
"On this trip, Russell drove into the valley on a rough 4WD path known as the Zeka Spur Track, a road he'd built decades earlier while working as a contract logger."

  • A year ago Russell had an encounter with the Button Man
"Russell's friend of almost 30 years, Robbie Ashlin, says it was on the King Billy Track about a year earlier that Russell and another mate had an encounter with a bushman who has been dubbed the Button Man.
Robbie says Russell encountered a man who was "agitated" and "let them know he didn't want them to be camping there". "They just called him the angry deer hunter because they didn’t know him as anything else."

  • Robbie Ashlin told Russell Hill's wife it's time to go to the police
"On the night of March 20, while Russell and Carol were camping in the Wonnangatta Valley, Russell spoke to three or four club members including Robbie.

When Robbie didn't hear from Russell the next night, he wasn't worried.

"But when he was missing the second and the third night that is when I said to his wife, 'It's time to go to the police.'"
 
they'll get you said:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...ounting-mountain-mystery-20200521-p54v4p.html


They say no one knows he is near until he decides to make himself known. A wildlife photographer spent days taking shots in the area near the Button-Man’s camp. When he returned home and downloaded his photos to his computer there was one unexplained shot of the photographer asleep inside his tent. No one knows who took the shot.
Many campers and hunters have stories of the Button-Man emerging from the dark and approaching them at campsites. He is described as around 70, with short grey hair, wearing dark jackets and "bloody scary". Others say he is “spooky”, but no one reports any threats or violence.
Click to expand...

I mean it could have just been young campers playing a prank, but that is just ... horror movie stuff.

The Button Man sounds like a grumpy recluse who doesn't really want other people around, but I don't really get the feeling he'd murder two people. Just my own feelings on that, based on other people saying that if you meet him in town he seems lovely. I'd hate an older homeless man who happens to get by camping the bush to be assumed guilty just because he "looks scary". There's absolutely no proof he's ever hurt anyone.

Four people have gone missing within a 60km radius in the past year. Their fate remains a mystery
This is such an interesting and informative article, I think for me it definitely puts to rest any notions that they stumbled on an illegal crop, the cops are well aware of that possibility and seem to have excluded it, based on past incidents where they've a) known that was why a person was murdered and b) actually found the drug crop while searching. They could so easily just fly drones, helicopters etc over the whole area and did just that not long after these two went missing, and they say they've found no evidence of crops in the area.

I think if it was a murder-suicide they'd have been found by now. Most murder-suicides (or even suicide pacts) don't really go out of their way to hide their tracks like that.

It's like the other two men in that abc article who are still missing from the area - it's super harsh bush terrain with lots of mountains, water, steep drops etc. The last man mentioned couldn't have got far from his car at all yet they can't find him either, and he most likely died from some kind of accident, medical episode or a combination of both, nothing nefarious.
 
I've just been doing some maths re the area given in today's article, which says that the 4 people in question went missing within a 60 km radius of each other. Unless I got it wrong (quite likely!) that equals an approximate area of about 11,300 square kms. To put this in proportion, for example, the area of Hawaii's "Big Island" is about 10,400 square kms. And it is a "big island". So 4 people going missing in this area isn't quite so amazing (to me, anyway) as the article might imply. Which of course doesn't mean that they're not connected.
 
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