Australia - Siege/Ambush at Remote Property - 6 Dead Including 2 Police/Neighbor - Wieambilla (Queensland)

[drsleuth]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/all-missing-person-checks-for-nathaniel-train-led-to-wieambilla-inquest/news-story/01a2e42a532dbe7d2df0edbaf6887a8d?amp

All missing person checks for Nathaniel Train led to Wieambilla: inquest​

Police in NSW asked their Queensland counterparts to go to the Trains’ home after a missing person investigation for the school principal.

 

[drsleuth]

Queensland police not told of 'doomsday' ideas before cop killings

www.9news.com.au

NSW Police threats not handed to Queensland before cops killed​

Threatening emails from a man who went on to fatally shoot three people in Queensland were not handed over by NSW Police due to procedural requirements, a coroner has heard.

 

[drsleuth]

Inquest told Gareth Train's email threats left out of briefing to Queensland police before Wieambilla shootings

NSW Police were aware of Gareth Train's email threats that police would be "dealt with" if they went to his property but didn't inform Queensland officers before they attended the Wieambilla property in 2022, an inquest has heard.

www.abc.net.au

Gareth Train's threatening emails not included in briefing to Queensland police the day of Wieambilla shootings, inquest hears​

The court has previously been told that in the police system a summary of an investigation is known as a 'narrative'.

The narrative relating to Nathaniel Train included reports that Gareth Train was "paranoid" and had a "dislike for police".

Queensland police were made aware of these reports, and the fact that Nathaniel Train was a licensed firearm holder.

However, when passing on information about the Trains, Detective Senior Constable Montgomery attached the first narrative in the system, which was created 11 days earlier, but not the most recent 'narrative' that had been submitted at around 10.30am on the morning of the shooting.

This narrative included reports about Gareth Train's emails.

 

[drsleuth]

Police officers behind 'welfare check' turned fatal to testify

A coroner investigating the deaths of six people in rural Queensland is due to hear from police officers wh...

www.9news.com.au

Police officers behind 'welfare check' turned fatal to testify at Wieambilla inquest​

A coroner investigating the deaths of six people in rural Queensland is due to hear from police officers who planned the "welfare check" that turned into a deadly shooting.

Queensland Constable Stephanie Abbott is due to give evidence about the background checks she did in respect of the Trains.

Acting Sergeants Justin Drier and Matthew Minz, officers in charge of the Chinchilla and Tara police stations respectively, will give evidence about their decision to send the four junior officers to the Trains' Wieambilla property.

Detective Senior Sergeant Duncan Gorrie and Detective Chief Inspector Garry Watts will give their opinions on the decisions made during the missing person investigation.

 

[scapa]

Inquest told Gareth Train's email threats left out of briefing to Queensland police before Wieambilla shootings

NSW Police were aware of Gareth Train's email threats that police would be "dealt with" if they went to his property but didn't inform Queensland officers before they attended the Wieambilla property in 2022, an inquest has heard.

www.abc.net.au

Gareth Train's threatening emails not included in briefing to Queensland police the day of Wieambilla shootings, inquest hears​

The court has previously been told that in the police system a summary of an investigation is known as a 'narrative'.

The narrative relating to Nathaniel Train included reports that Gareth Train was "paranoid" and had a "dislike for police".

Queensland police were made aware of these reports, and the fact that Nathaniel Train was a licensed firearm holder.

However, when passing on information about the Trains, Detective Senior Constable Montgomery attached the first narrative in the system, which was created 11 days earlier, but not the most recent 'narrative' that had been submitted at around 10.30am on the morning of the shooting.

This narrative included reports about Gareth Train's emails.

So the police in charge of activating the welfare check knew from the extant "narrative" that

- Train was paranoid
- Train disliked / hated police
- Train(s) were armed

But not yet that

- Gareth Train had recently made direct criminal threats concerning what he might do to police who came onto his property

Armed with that first section of analysis but without knowing about the recent direct threats, the decision was made to send 4 junior officers.

I'm guessing that a "narrative" system update that prioritizes and redflags critical info so it's seen first and not simply in the order in which it appeared is required.

Terrible situation, made still more shocking somehow by the chronology of this inquest, IMO.

 

[drsleuth]

Police would not have been sent to Wieambilla ambush if killer’s emails had been passed on, inquest hears

‘Routine’ job that turned fatal would not have been initiated had NSW police passed on threatening emails to Queensland colleagues, court told

www.theguardian.com

Police would not have been sent to Wieambilla ambush if killer’s emails had been passed on, inquest hears​

‘Routine’ job that turned fatal would not have been initiated had NSW police passed on threatening emails to Queensland colleagues, court told

Queensland police constable Stephanie Abbott, who emailed the four officers to pass on the duty, said she would not have done so if she had seen the messages.

Abbott told the inquest she would have wanted to know more information before jumping the fence on a large property and “I’d look at involving specialist units, or at least have someone rifle trained and ballistic vests on” if doing so.

snip

Acting sergeant Justin Drier testified that he advised her on 12 December, and stood by as Abbott conducted checks for flags on the 251 Wains Road, Wieambilla, address on the Queensland police system.

“There was no flags or warnings at that actual address on our QPrime system,” he said.

snip

At the time Drier considered it a “routine” job, but if he had seen the emails from Gareth Train it would have turned it into a “high-risk address attendance”, he said.

“I would not have sent a crew, I would have [sought] advice,” he said.

The inquest heard they could have contacted the criminal investigative branch, based in Dalby, for advice.

Det Chief Insp Garry Watts said if he had been contacted and sent the emails he would have asked intelligence officers to conduct more in-depth checks than the frontline officers were able to.

They might have contacted specialist teams, such as the fixated person’s unit, he said.

“I don’t believe we would have sent four police there,” Watts said.

He said there was no urgency to the task, which could have waited for additional checks.

 

[CredibleSauce]

So the police in charge of activating the welfare check knew from the extant "narrative" that

- Train was paranoid
- Train disliked / hated police
- Train(s) were armed

But not yet that

- Gareth Train had recently made direct criminal threats concerning what he might do to police who came onto his property

Armed with that first section of analysis but without knowing about the recent direct threats, the decision was made to send 4 junior officers.

I'm guessing that a "narrative" system update that prioritizes and redflags critical info so it's seen first and not simply in the order in which it appeared is required.

Terrible situation, made still more shocking somehow by the chronology of this inquest, IMO.

Probably impossible the way things are divided up by state here, but you’d think a federal missing persons register (along with the national firearms register) wouldn’t be the worst thing.
From what has come out in the inquest I don’t think it would necessarily have prevented this specific situation, but I can’t see why it would hurt operationally to have all of this information stored centrally and for each jurisdiction to be able to access and add information the same way they’d add to their existing databases?

 

[Ellery84]

https://www.couriermail.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-qld/wieambilla-inquest-gareth-trains-next-level-fed-up-email-threats-to-police/news-story/5d46e380cbd03586af94c7cb7cedfc19?amp

Sgt Thorpe was the officer who performed CPR on Nathaniel when he had his cardiac arrest at the school on Aug 10th 2021 ( some , may say too well IMO ) His wife also worked with Nathaniel.

Lots more in article

So a NSW police officer performed CPR on Nathaniel Train when he had an heart attack at school, and saved his life, and then Nathaniel turned and was complicit in killing a police officer in the siege on his brother’s property over a year later.

It’s just selfish, unnecessary behaviour on the part of Nathaniel Train. What had the police ever done to Nathaniel apart from assist him in arguably the worst moment of his life, and work with him proactively in his role as a school Principal, both in QLD and in NSW?

I wonder if Sgt Thorpe would do anything differently if he had a crystal ball….?

 

[Ellery84]

I personally think some of this testimony from the woman close to Nathaniel is a bit questionable…. All of my own comments and wonderings are italicised here.

“The woman said Nathaniel had tried to convince her to come to Queensland, and when she pleaded with him to return to New South Wales where he lived, he told her, "he was in the place God told him he had to be".

I cannot imagine he asked her to come to QLD.

“Communication cut off months earlier.”

“The court heard the woman cut off communication from Nathaniel in May 2022…” if she broke up with him or cut off comms, why did she go on to make a missing persons report in December? You’re either communicating or you’re not. If you’re done with someone, why not just leave them alone?

“…and dropped off some of his belongings to the Wieambilla property, but did not enter and did not see any of the Trains.”

Why didn’t she enter the property? Was she concerned about her safety?

You go all the way up to Tara to drop off your ex’s belongings and you don’t bother like even opening the gate or making sure the items make their way into the house safely?

She said she was constantly concerned about Nathaniel's welfare and mental health, but her concerns escalated when his brother, Gareth, forwarded a message from Nathaniel, which stated he was "well and going out bush camping for a few months".

If she was so concerned about his wellbeing and mental health, why did she go no contact from May 2022 and then break into his email account and start forwarding some of the emails to police? I wonder if she was a bit of a Nancy Drew type and wanted to know what he was up to due to curiosity and a sense that she was entitled to know about his mysterious new life?




Wieambilla inquest hears haunting final message to woman who reported Nathaniel Train missing



The next morning, she learned all three Trains were dead and heard news reports of what unfolded on the property. The inquest continues.

I wonder if it’s truly accurate that this woman learned about their deaths the next morning. I’m quite sure that unfolding and breaking news related to the siege was broadcast 24/7.

Surely she knew that was their property on the news the evening before? I mean, she had been there to drop off Nathaniel’s items. She knew what the property looked like….

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The Wieambilla terrorists, Gareth, Stacey and Nathaniel Train. (Supplied)
Ryan was shown a brief email Montgomery sent to Queensland Police in the early afternoon of December 12, 2022 requesting they send one police vehicle to Gareth Train's remote bush property, west of Brisbane, to ask if he knew his brother's whereabouts.

By early evening that day, Nathaniel and Gareth Train had fatally shot Queensland Constables Matthew Arnold, 26, and Rachel McCrow, 29, in an ambush with high-powered rifles.

Montgomery said he attached to the email a police "narrative" report from the initial missing persons case for Nathaniel Train created on November 23, 2022

Queensland police not told of 'doomsday' ideas before cop killings

www.9news.com.au