Quite possible PrimeSuspect.There would have to be 'evidence' behind such an allegation. MSM journalists are unlikely to risk their credibility, their careers and employment by making completely false allegations IMO.
GUILTY Australia - Stephanie Scott, 26, Leeton, NSW, 5 April 2015 - #3
- Thread starter Makara
- Start date
Quite possible PrimeSuspect.There would have to be 'evidence' behind such an allegation. MSM journalists are unlikely to risk their credibility, their careers and employment by making completely false allegations IMO.
FYI
http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/cri...ea-bargaining/
Plea Bargaining
In NSW both the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and the police have the discretion as to whether a charge will be laid (and if so, which charge)
and whether to accept a plea to a lesser charge.
"A plea bargain usually involves a plea of guilty to a lesser charge in response to the prosecution dropping other charges..."
Some excerpts:
There may be scope for negotiations between the defence and the prosecution in relation to the charges .The NSW and Commonwealth DPP, encourage charge negotiations (plea bargaining). IMO two basic forms of plea bargaining may possibly apply in this case:
a) Where there are multiple criminal offences – arranging with the prosecution to plead guilty to some of the charges if the other charges are withdrawn
(or placed on a Form 1 – a list of charges that you are not convicted with, but which the court can take into account in sentencing for the principal offence);
b) Where you plead guilty to the offence– attempting to persuade the prosecution to tender an agreed set of facts on sentence, more favourable to you
than the facts initially prepared by the police at the time of charge;
What is the rationale for charge negotiation (plea bargaining)?
Charge negotiation (plea bargaining) attempts to balance two public interests. The first is the community’s interest: ensuring that criminal conduct is adequately
and appropriately punished. The second is the public interest: reducing costs in the criminal justice system and the delay between charge and trial.
http://www.armstronglegal.com.au/cri...ea-bargaining/
Plea Bargaining
In NSW both the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) and the police have the discretion as to whether a charge will be laid (and if so, which charge)
and whether to accept a plea to a lesser charge.
"A plea bargain usually involves a plea of guilty to a lesser charge in response to the prosecution dropping other charges..."
Some excerpts:
There may be scope for negotiations between the defence and the prosecution in relation to the charges .The NSW and Commonwealth DPP, encourage charge negotiations (plea bargaining). IMO two basic forms of plea bargaining may possibly apply in this case:
a) Where there are multiple criminal offences – arranging with the prosecution to plead guilty to some of the charges if the other charges are withdrawn
(or placed on a Form 1 – a list of charges that you are not convicted with, but which the court can take into account in sentencing for the principal offence);
b) Where you plead guilty to the offence– attempting to persuade the prosecution to tender an agreed set of facts on sentence, more favourable to you
than the facts initially prepared by the police at the time of charge;
What is the rationale for charge negotiation (plea bargaining)?
Charge negotiation (plea bargaining) attempts to balance two public interests. The first is the community’s interest: ensuring that criminal conduct is adequately
and appropriately punished. The second is the public interest: reducing costs in the criminal justice system and the delay between charge and trial.
FYI
Here is some information around Statement of Agreed Facts which may provide some background information for those interested:
https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/fact_finding.html#p1-430
[1-455] Plea agreements
Often where an offender pleads guilty, sentencing procedures are marked by a degree of informality. Usually, an agreed statement of facts, sometimes negotiated between the accused and the prosecution, will be placed before the sentencing judge…
Plea agreements should ordinarily be recorded in writing the dealings between counsel for the prosecution and counsel for an accused person should be recorded.
[1-460] Agreed statements of facts
Agreed facts should always be carefully checked by all parties and their legal representatives, and especially by counsel for an offender.
It is unsatisfactory to leave the preparation of the statement of agreed facts to those whose function and expertise is in investigation (in this case, the AFP, NSW Police and NSW Crime Commission), and not those who are trained, skilled and experienced in the preparation of evidence…
Must be comprehensible
It is the statutory obligation of the Crown to ensure that the agreed statement of facts is comprehensible … The statement of facts must be framed so that the court can discern what is agreed to be fact and what is merely assertion…
Tender of other documents in addition to
The wisdom of tendering the entire Crown brief in addition to the agreed statement of facts where a plea agreement has been reached (is doubted as it) … runs a risk that the sentencer will take into account facts that will aggravate the offence …
Form 1 documents and agreed facts
A court must not take into account offences specified in a list of additional charges on a Form 1 (see s 32) or any statement of agreed facts that was the subject of charge negotiations (plea bargaining), unless the prosecutor has filed a Certificate with the court…
See Charge negotiations: prosecutor to consult with victim and police at [13-225].
For more detailed information including case citation etc please see above link.
Here is some information around Statement of Agreed Facts which may provide some background information for those interested:
https://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/sentencing/fact_finding.html#p1-430
[1-455] Plea agreements
Often where an offender pleads guilty, sentencing procedures are marked by a degree of informality. Usually, an agreed statement of facts, sometimes negotiated between the accused and the prosecution, will be placed before the sentencing judge…
Plea agreements should ordinarily be recorded in writing the dealings between counsel for the prosecution and counsel for an accused person should be recorded.
[1-460] Agreed statements of facts
Agreed facts should always be carefully checked by all parties and their legal representatives, and especially by counsel for an offender.
It is unsatisfactory to leave the preparation of the statement of agreed facts to those whose function and expertise is in investigation (in this case, the AFP, NSW Police and NSW Crime Commission), and not those who are trained, skilled and experienced in the preparation of evidence…
Must be comprehensible
It is the statutory obligation of the Crown to ensure that the agreed statement of facts is comprehensible … The statement of facts must be framed so that the court can discern what is agreed to be fact and what is merely assertion…
Tender of other documents in addition to
The wisdom of tendering the entire Crown brief in addition to the agreed statement of facts where a plea agreement has been reached (is doubted as it) … runs a risk that the sentencer will take into account facts that will aggravate the offence …
Form 1 documents and agreed facts
A court must not take into account offences specified in a list of additional charges on a Form 1 (see s 32) or any statement of agreed facts that was the subject of charge negotiations (plea bargaining), unless the prosecutor has filed a Certificate with the court…
See Charge negotiations: prosecutor to consult with victim and police at [13-225].
For more detailed information including case citation etc please see above link.
There is a bit of a gap between submitting a plea to the court in the case of a crime committed as opposed to Plea Bargaining... there is no claim as far as I can see that Vincent has submitted a Plea Bargaining procedure to the court. None at all. He has made the obligatory plea. One is obliged to make a plea, either of not guilty or guilty, or one says nothing, and one's trial proceeds without a plea being made, but one is presumed not guilty in that event, and if one is found guilty one loses the discount of pleading guilty in the first place.
But Vincent hasn't gone down that difficult road.. Having nothing to bargain with, he has pleaded guilty. For which , he will receive a discount on the years of sentence served that he can apply for parole. Nothing more is promised upon the plea of guilty, in the case of murder. The matter of the hope of parole is all that Vincent stands in expectation of. If he is only sentenced to the mandatory life with 20 years to serve, then he will be a very lucky man in combination with a very very lenient judge , ..a very long shot. I don't think that is going to happen. I think he wont be able to apply for parole for close to 30 years, if not more.
But Vincent hasn't gone down that difficult road.. Having nothing to bargain with, he has pleaded guilty. For which , he will receive a discount on the years of sentence served that he can apply for parole. Nothing more is promised upon the plea of guilty, in the case of murder. The matter of the hope of parole is all that Vincent stands in expectation of. If he is only sentenced to the mandatory life with 20 years to serve, then he will be a very lucky man in combination with a very very lenient judge , ..a very long shot. I don't think that is going to happen. I think he wont be able to apply for parole for close to 30 years, if not more.
A bit of a shock to me this morning to find that a Qld Judge, , Debra Mullins has opted NOT to alter the standard 20-year non-parole period despite prosecution submissions based on the viciousness of the crimes. , in the case of the murder of Joan Ryther.
I truly am expecting a NSW judge to increase the Mandatory 20 year parole sentence on Vincent that accompanies all murder sentences in NSW. I honestly do not expect this to be opted out of.. but , there you go.. happened in QLD courts this morning. And it was an horrific murder, too..
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...chael-burke-found-guilty-20160808-gqnlhh.html
I truly am expecting a NSW judge to increase the Mandatory 20 year parole sentence on Vincent that accompanies all murder sentences in NSW. I honestly do not expect this to be opted out of.. but , there you go.. happened in QLD courts this morning. And it was an horrific murder, too..
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...chael-burke-found-guilty-20160808-gqnlhh.html
BREAKING
SENTENCING OF MARCUS STANFORD
Melinda Hayter ‏@MelindaHayter 1h1 hour ago
At #Leeton Courthouse with @jessedorsett to cover sentencing of Marcus Stanford for @abcnews. Court due to start @ 9am
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqf5TvVUEAA3a8G.jpg
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 51m51 minutes ago
Vincent #Stanford's brother Marcus arrives at #Leeton court for his sentence hearing. @9NewsSyd
SENTENCING OF MARCUS STANFORD
Melinda Hayter ‏@MelindaHayter 1h1 hour ago
At #Leeton Courthouse with @jessedorsett to cover sentencing of Marcus Stanford for @abcnews. Court due to start @ 9am
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqf5TvVUEAA3a8G.jpg
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 51m51 minutes ago
Vincent #Stanford's brother Marcus arrives at #Leeton court for his sentence hearing. @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 27m27 minutes ago
The Det. Sergeant says Stephanie Scott's bra was also found in Vincent #Stanford's bedroom. He later made a full confession. @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 22m22 minutes ago
After the murder Vincent Stanford sent his brother a text which said "I'm going to send you an envelope, keep it safe for me." @9NewsSyd
The Det. Sergeant says Stephanie Scott's bra was also found in Vincent #Stanford's bedroom. He later made a full confession. @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 22m22 minutes ago
After the murder Vincent Stanford sent his brother a text which said "I'm going to send you an envelope, keep it safe for me." @9NewsSyd
Sarah Crawford ‏@SCrawfordNews 53m53 minutes ago
Marcus Stanford faces sentence hearing for accessory to murder of Leeton teacher @dailytelegraph
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqgAg6kUIAAs0RQ.jpg
Marcus Stanford faces sentence hearing for accessory to murder of Leeton teacher @dailytelegraph
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqgAg6kUIAAs0RQ.jpg
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 20m20 minutes ago
Court hears Marcus #Stanford sold Stephanie Scott's rings to an Adelaide jeweller for $705. @9NewsSyd
Gillian Bowen Verified account ‏@GillianHBowen 10m10 minutes ago
Leeton Court hears #Stephanie Scott's engagement ring & ring given to her by her mother were told for $705 to an Adelaide Jeweller #TenNews
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 22m22 minutes ago
In that envelope was Stephanie Scott's engagement ring, another ring given to her by her mother & her driver's licence. #Stanford @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 34m34 minutes ago
Police officer tells the court Vincent #Stanford claimed he downloaded the photographs of the body "from a horror movie." @9NewsSyd
Court hears Marcus #Stanford sold Stephanie Scott's rings to an Adelaide jeweller for $705. @9NewsSyd
Gillian Bowen Verified account ‏@GillianHBowen 10m10 minutes ago
Leeton Court hears #Stephanie Scott's engagement ring & ring given to her by her mother were told for $705 to an Adelaide Jeweller #TenNews
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 22m22 minutes ago
In that envelope was Stephanie Scott's engagement ring, another ring given to her by her mother & her driver's licence. #Stanford @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 34m34 minutes ago
Police officer tells the court Vincent #Stanford claimed he downloaded the photographs of the body "from a horror movie." @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 36m36 minutes ago
Police officer detailing investigation says the last two photos on Vincent #Stanford's camera "were a burnt deceased body." @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 52m52 minutes ago
Marcus #Stanford pleaded guilty to being an accessory after the murder of #Leeton school teacher Stephanie #Scott. @9NewsSyd
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqf-PzZVIAE5rYX.jpg
Melinda Hayter ‏@MelindaHayter 1h1 hour ago
Stephanie Scott's family and fiancé arrive at #Leeton Court for Marcus Stanford's sentencing
Police officer detailing investigation says the last two photos on Vincent #Stanford's camera "were a burnt deceased body." @9NewsSyd
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor 52m52 minutes ago
Marcus #Stanford pleaded guilty to being an accessory after the murder of #Leeton school teacher Stephanie #Scott. @9NewsSyd
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqf-PzZVIAE5rYX.jpg
Melinda Hayter ‏@MelindaHayter 1h1 hour ago
Stephanie Scott's family and fiancé arrive at #Leeton Court for Marcus Stanford's sentencing
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/marcus-st...ngs-for-705-after-murder-20160822-gqypdz.html
Marcus Stanford sold Stephanie Scott's rings for $705 after murder
by Emma Partridge, August 23 2016 - 10:43AM
Marcus Stanford 25, was escorted from Leeton police station to Leeton Courthouse on Tuesday morning for his sentencing hearing... He has pleaded guilty to accessory to murder after he sold Ms Scott's engagement ring and another ring for $705 at an Adelaide jewellery store...
For the first time the court heard how police charged Vincent Stanford after finding Ms Scott's red bra in a backpack in his bedroom and her keys to Leeton High School.
They also recovered a camera with pictures of Ms Scott's burnt remains....
Marcus Stanford sold Stephanie Scott's rings for $705 after murder
by Emma Partridge, August 23 2016 - 10:43AM
Marcus Stanford 25, was escorted from Leeton police station to Leeton Courthouse on Tuesday morning for his sentencing hearing... He has pleaded guilty to accessory to murder after he sold Ms Scott's engagement ring and another ring for $705 at an Adelaide jewellery store...
For the first time the court heard how police charged Vincent Stanford after finding Ms Scott's red bra in a backpack in his bedroom and her keys to Leeton High School.
They also recovered a camera with pictures of Ms Scott's burnt remains....
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor now7 seconds ago
In Marcus Stanford's police interview he says he sold the rings & burnt the licence because of "misplaced loyalty" to his brother. @9NewsSyd
Emma Partridge ‏@em_partridge now6 seconds ago
Marcus Stanford sold engagement ring of murdered school teacher Stephanie Scott out of "misplaced loyalty"
Sarah Crawford ‏@SCrawfordNews 15m15 minutes ago
Marcus Stanford said he sold Stephanie Scott's rings because of "misplaced loyalties to my brother." @dailytelegraph
In Marcus Stanford's police interview he says he sold the rings & burnt the licence because of "misplaced loyalty" to his brother. @9NewsSyd
Emma Partridge ‏@em_partridge now6 seconds ago
Marcus Stanford sold engagement ring of murdered school teacher Stephanie Scott out of "misplaced loyalty"
Sarah Crawford ‏@SCrawfordNews 15m15 minutes ago
Marcus Stanford said he sold Stephanie Scott's rings because of "misplaced loyalties to my brother." @dailytelegraph
Kelly Fedor ‏@KellyFedor now4 seconds ago
Stephanie Scott's mother Merrilyn describes her as "amazing" and tells the court "we are destined to a life unfulfilled." @9NewsSyd
Amy Dale ‏@amydale_tele now16 seconds ago
Heartbreaking
Stephanie Scott's mother Merrilyn describes her as "amazing" and tells the court "we are destined to a life unfulfilled." @9NewsSyd
Amy Dale ‏@amydale_tele now16 seconds ago
Heartbreaking
thankyou for the updates, Fuskier.
What a pair of vicious pricks. .. ... Marcus, the smarty businessman, selling the rings to get enough for a visit to Silverwater jail where I presume, at some stage, Vincent was being held. What a pair. And Vincent had to take his 'trophy' photo's. .. and keep them. Plus her underwear. ...
I will be so disappointed if their sentences are flimsy and lenient....... . they egged each other on, they strung out the search and the nerves of everyone in Leeton and NSW, he STOLE her rings!!.. he twisted and turned her dead fingers till the jewellery came off.... He murdered her in a place of learning for the children of the community, her place of work, his place of work. Nothing is said about him knowing anything about her at all, and no one has ever mentioned that he was in her conversation. He wrapped up those rings and sent them to his brother. Who knew exactly who's rings they were.
Speechless with rage.
What a pair of vicious pricks. .. ... Marcus, the smarty businessman, selling the rings to get enough for a visit to Silverwater jail where I presume, at some stage, Vincent was being held. What a pair. And Vincent had to take his 'trophy' photo's. .. and keep them. Plus her underwear. ...
I will be so disappointed if their sentences are flimsy and lenient....... . they egged each other on, they strung out the search and the nerves of everyone in Leeton and NSW, he STOLE her rings!!.. he twisted and turned her dead fingers till the jewellery came off.... He murdered her in a place of learning for the children of the community, her place of work, his place of work. Nothing is said about him knowing anything about her at all, and no one has ever mentioned that he was in her conversation. He wrapped up those rings and sent them to his brother. Who knew exactly who's rings they were.
Speechless with rage.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-...ver-stephanie-scott's-murder-in-court/7776036
Stephanie Scott: Mother's 'sorrow never ends' over daughter's murder, NSW Supreme Court told
By Melinda Hayter, 23 August, 2016.
Updated 28 minutes ago
"Two little rings, how significant they were in life and now in death," Ms Scott's mother Merrilyn said in her victim impact statement to the court.
"The treasured rings that had meant so much had become trophies.
"They were sold to the lowest bidder and the proceeds were used for a visit to Silverwater Jail."
She said the Stanford twins had "conspired to hide the truth" and added: "Opportunities to assist police were squandered, and now we must suffer."
"There will be no end to the sorrow," she said...
Stephanie Scott: Mother's 'sorrow never ends' over daughter's murder, NSW Supreme Court told
By Melinda Hayter, 23 August, 2016.
Updated 28 minutes ago
"Two little rings, how significant they were in life and now in death," Ms Scott's mother Merrilyn said in her victim impact statement to the court.
"The treasured rings that had meant so much had become trophies.
"They were sold to the lowest bidder and the proceeds were used for a visit to Silverwater Jail."
She said the Stanford twins had "conspired to hide the truth" and added: "Opportunities to assist police were squandered, and now we must suffer."
"There will be no end to the sorrow," she said...
'"He never informed me what was going to be in it," Marcus told police.
In the recorded interview Marcus also said he had never discussed the murder with his brother.
"[He] Only ever said that he was pleading guilty – but he never actually discussed what he did."
He later told police he was angry his brother had sent him Ms Scott's belongings.
"How did you feel?" an officer asked him.
"A bit confused why my brother would send me something like that in the first place ... then quite angry that he sent them to me."
He later said he sold the rings out of a "misplaced loyalty" to his brother.'
I don't believe a single word of this claptrap statement.. its a self serving record of carefully thought out scamming to assist Marcus in his presentation at court. Somewhere , between the two of them, it has been decided who is going to be thrown to the wolves and who is going to attempt to lie their way out of the darkest aspects of this crime. Vincent is a lost cause, there just isn't any factors he can produce that will lessen the perspective of his crime by a judge. Hence, the no jury thingo. .. He is hoping a judge will be a bit hardened by a lifetime of listening to this stuff, unlike a jury which would go into terminal shock.
Hateful.
In the recorded interview Marcus also said he had never discussed the murder with his brother.
"[He] Only ever said that he was pleading guilty – but he never actually discussed what he did."
He later told police he was angry his brother had sent him Ms Scott's belongings.
"How did you feel?" an officer asked him.
"A bit confused why my brother would send me something like that in the first place ... then quite angry that he sent them to me."
He later said he sold the rings out of a "misplaced loyalty" to his brother.'
I don't believe a single word of this claptrap statement.. its a self serving record of carefully thought out scamming to assist Marcus in his presentation at court. Somewhere , between the two of them, it has been decided who is going to be thrown to the wolves and who is going to attempt to lie their way out of the darkest aspects of this crime. Vincent is a lost cause, there just isn't any factors he can produce that will lessen the perspective of his crime by a judge. Hence, the no jury thingo. .. He is hoping a judge will be a bit hardened by a lifetime of listening to this stuff, unlike a jury which would go into terminal shock.
Hateful.
Makara
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This is so heartbreaking and horrific. I sincerely hope that the twins are locked up for the rest of their lives, but we all know that's not going to happen. :banghead:. It will probably be 20 years with a non parole period of 15, out in 12. :banghead:
Thank you Fuskier for the continual updates, as difficult as they are to read. I hope that justice will finally be done for Stephanie and her family.
Rest in peace Stephanie. :rose:
Thank you Fuskier for the continual updates, as difficult as they are to read. I hope that justice will finally be done for Stephanie and her family.
Rest in peace Stephanie. :rose: