Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[The Observer]

Thanks TO. Could you please provide a link for the quoted information?

Quote taken from the trial and reported here by the media: Nocookies

 

[Via Marple]

Do you mean an expert in normal, as opposed to abnormal, psychology? Or do you mean an expert in non-mental medical issues?

I am not in medicine so can only guess.

I guess an expert who can read her medical notes, and determine how her condition would affect her functioning, specifically effects such as confusion and brain fogginess.

I guess a psychologist who specialises in anxiety and panic attacks may also have some insight. That should be different from what Prof Buist specialises in. I guess Prof Buist as a psychiatrist in general should also have some insight, but I don't know for sure.

I would certainly welcome expert input from other posters!

 

[Spooky7]

There are some good points in the analysis, obviously Professor Buist knows her subject matter. But I can't say I agree with her conclusion,


I can actually believe that Keli's planning turned into panic around midday, 3 hours before she meant to turn up at her parents house, when hospital staff was still preparing for her discharge. A nurse had noted her "anxious to leave". Her self imposed deadline could lead to tremendous stress and then panic.

In a panic state, she might not even remember what she did afterwards. Oh yeah I must have given baby to the father because what else could I have done? ....

Add to that her fragile physical state. I think the trial document says she lost a significant amount of blood from complications during childbirth. That might also have an effect, causing confusion, fogginess perhaps.

Can anyone confirm if it was the pregnancy with Tegan when Keli presented to hospital multiple times requesting to be induced? Because if so this would indicate that the panic was setting in, perhaps as the wedding date approached?

 

[Spooky7]

Yes, strange that Tegan would be added to Keli’s Medicare card if she intended to either kill her or hand her over to someone else but, then again, so much of this case doesn’t make sense.

Just a thought. I would’ve expected Keli’s (and Tegan’s?) obs; eg BP, pulse, temp, to be charted before she/they left the hospital. I wonder where those charts are? And as far as Tegan’s DNA sample goes, where is her Guthrie Test card?

Anyway, Andrew Morris/Norris, or what ever his name is (or isn’t), and his existence (or not) may not remain a mystery forever, according to the SMH:

‘Lane has always said she did not kill her baby, claiming she gave her to a man named either "Andrew Morris" or "Andrew Norris". Sources close to the show have suggested to Fairfax Media that the existence or otherwise of this person could soon be revealed.’

ABC's Exposed: Former prosecutor apologises over Keli Lane comments

She never had the Guthrie test done.

 

[Bohemian]

Can anyone confirm if it was the pregnancy with Tegan when Keli presented to hospital multiple times requesting to be induced? Because if so this would indicate that the panic was setting in, perhaps as the wedding date approached?

It says in one of the investigative journalists’ posts on the ABC’s Exposed FB group that Keli tried to have Tegan’s birth induced at Ryde Hospital in the weeks leading up to Tegan’s birth at Auburn Hospital. The reason being that she claimed that Tegan was overdue.

Caro Meldrum-Hanna

ETA. Tegan’s birth was eventually induced at Auburn Hospital:

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

 

[Spooky7]

I’m not sure if this has already been addressed but... do we know if Keli was still having sex with her boyfriend at the time? If so, how could she be sure Andrew was the father?

 

[sleepinoz]

I found this article to be interesting, in regard to KL.

Experts explained those cases as resulting from pregnancy denial, an often misunderstood and minimized condition. According to Michel Delcroix, a former gynecologist who served as a court expert in the Courjault trial and others involving pregnancy issues, pregnancy denial is a quasi-schizophrenic condition in which women either don't realize or cannot accept that they are with child — not even enough to have an abortion. Whether these women are afflicted with the condition before they deliver or as they're suddenly giving birth, Delcroix explains, the psychological denial is so strong that they refuse to believe they're pregnant even when the reality confronts them.

Top 10 TIME.com Stories of 2010 - TIME

 

[Bohemian]

I’m not sure if this has already been addressed but... do we know if Keli was still having sex with her boyfriend at the time? If so, how could she be sure Andrew was the father?

Presumably Keli and her boyfriend, Duncan Gillies, were having sex as they were in a relationship between 1994 and 1998. Keli claims she and Andrew Morris/Norris had a brief affair during her relationship with Gillies but how she ‘knew’ Morris/Norris was Tegan’s father, and not Gillies, I don’t know.

The bizarre life of Keli Lane

 

[Bohemian]

I found this article to be interesting, in regard to KL.

Experts explained those cases as resulting from pregnancy denial, an often misunderstood and minimized condition. According to Michel Delcroix, a former gynecologist who served as a court expert in the Courjault trial and others involving pregnancy issues, pregnancy denial is a quasi-schizophrenic condition in which women either don't realize or cannot accept that they are with child — not even enough to have an abortion. Whether these women are afflicted with the condition before they deliver or as they're suddenly giving birth, Delcroix explains, the psychological denial is so strong that they refuse to believe they're pregnant even when the reality confronts them.

Top 10 TIME.com Stories of 2010 - TIME

Interesting read, sleep. It just seems weird that Keli would adopt her first and third babies out—although the article did say that the mothers who murdered their newborns also had surviving children. Keli, and the disappearance (and murder) of Tegan, are just so difficult to make any sense of at all.

 

[devushka]

This case really bugs me as I just want to know what happened to the baby.

After reading the court summaries and seeing the numerous stories that she told and the extent to which she had to manage to avoid the contact with the adoption agencies, etc, plus the extent of the searches that the police did at the time (though a pity that they missed the mobile phone records when still in contact with Andrew after she supposedly handed over the baby), I'm less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are so many things that don't add up, plus a lot of questions that apparently still haven't been asked... it's all such a mystery.

But I find that in the absence of any evidence to corroborate her story, I have a lot of trouble believing it.

 

[Bohemian]

This case really bugs me as I just want to know what happened to the baby.

After reading the court summaries and seeing the numerous stories that she told and the extent to which she had to manage to avoid the contact with the adoption agencies, etc, plus the extent of the searches that the police did at the time (though a pity that they missed the mobile phone records when still in contact with Andrew after she supposedly handed over the baby), I'm less inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. There are so many things that don't add up, plus a lot of questions that apparently still haven't been asked... it's all such a mystery.

But I find that in the absence of any evidence to corroborate her story, I have a lot of trouble believing it.

I think I have to agree with you. In the absence of Tegan, I think Keli is where she should be.

Call me cynical, but I also wonder about the timing of Keli’s quest to have her conviction looked at again, given that it was announced in August 2018 that Kathleen Folbigg’s convictions will be the subject of an inquiry:

Australia's worst female serial killer to get judicial inquiry

 

[Via Marple]

Presumably Keli and her boyfriend, Duncan Gillies, were having sex as they were in a relationship between 1994 and 1998. Keli claims she and Andrew Morris/Norris had a brief affair during her relationship with Gillies but how she ‘knew’ Morris/Norris was Tegan’s father, and not Gillies, I don’t know.

The bizarre life of Keli Lane

I guess who was the biological father was not an important factor in this case. The important part is who she claimed she gave Tegan to.

Obviously DG was never in possession of a newborn baby at the time.

As long as KL believes Andrew was the father, and according to her Andrew was willing to believe that...

Or maybe DG always used contraception. Sorry this has to be said! He didn't seem to care much for the fate of Tegan during the trial.

 

[Bohemian]

Dr Xanthe Mallett’s opinion FWIW:

Keli Lane should be released and granted a retrial after a ‘miscarriage of justice’, expert says

 

[Bohemian]

Why police and prosecutors don't always disclose evidence in criminal trials

 

[sosocurious]

Can anyone confirm if it was the pregnancy with Tegan when Keli presented to hospital multiple times requesting to be induced? Because if so this would indicate that the panic was setting in, perhaps as the wedding date approached?

The Keli Lane Timeline
August 1996 - Begins teaching at Ravenswood school.

10 September, 1996 - Keli back at Ryde hospital, complaining of back rib pain. Says she's 42 weeks pregnant. Examined and discharged.

12 September, 1996 - Keli returns to Auburn hospital at about 8am, and is induced a couple of hours later. Tegan Lee Lane born at 7.52pm


We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Geez, she was nearing full term when she commenced working at Ravenswood School.

 

[sunnybree]

I felt that while Exposed was a good doco, there were a lot of things left out. For example, Elise (Caro’s co-worker) made the comment that the Andrew Norris/Morris story has been Keli’s story from the beginning. But actually, that isn’t true.

When Keli presented at Ryde Hospital to have baby #3, she was actually asked about her child born in 1996. Why? Because Ryde was where she first presented seeking an induced birth for Tegan claiming to be overdue and was sent home after being examined and doctors determining she wasn’t overdue. Ryde had this on record so asked about the earlier pregnancy as a part of their intake. Keli said “she’s at home”. This wasn’t discovered until the homicide investigation. The nurse wrote it down but the info wasn’t passed on to the social worker.

When the social worker sat down with Keli re baby #3 and Keli said she wanted to put up the child for adoption, she said this baby was her only child. She maintained the same to the adoptions worker until DOCs found out about Tegan’s birth, and she initially said there was no baby (although interestingly she responded yes to the adopted birth in 1995. Why admit to that but deny Tegan’s birth?) when Borovnik said he had to report Tegan as missing she said “Please don’t” not “okay she’s with her father, don’t know where, leave me alone”.

Now that could be argued as panic and avoidance, but a day later she faxes a letter to the adoptions worker saying Tegan was with a couple in Perth who had befriended her. She does not say “father”. Why on earth not? Caro should have asked Keli about this. Because, the most obvious explanation is that Keli realised she had to come up with a story to make DOCs and the possible police report go away so she told adoptions that a couple in Perth had her. I note that Perth features heavily in all of Keli’s false statements about her circumstances each time she gave birth. When the police asked Keli to explain why she had said this to the adoptions worker but was now telling the police that the father had custody, she said something like “well, they could be in Perth”. It seems more likely that Keli realised that she needed a better story for the police so decided to say that she gave the baby to the biological father. She clearly didn’t think they’d go back through her previous statements. There were I think some discrepancies too between the Morris and Norris versions but I can’t quite remember. I’m really disappointed this wasn’t all explored.

The case against Keli is a bit weak I grant you, but I am like the police officer who ran the final investigation. I believe Keli did murder Tegan (although I would think abandoning her somewhere to die/be found fits better with her established behaviour) but finding the proof was difficult.

References: this is detailed in Nice Girl by Rachael Chin and also the R v Lane link that has been posted in the thread several times.

 

[Via Marple]

I felt that while Exposed was a good doco, there were a lot of things left out. For example, Elise (Caro’s co-worker) made the comment that the Andrew Norris/Morris story has been Keli’s story from the beginning. But actually, that isn’t true.

When Keli presented at Ryde Hospital to have baby #3, she was actually asked about her child born in 1996. Why? Because Ryde was where she first presented seeking an induced birth for Tegan claiming to be overdue and was sent home after being examined and doctors determining she wasn’t overdue. Ryde had this on record so asked about the earlier pregnancy as a part of their intake. Keli said “she’s at home”. This wasn’t discovered until the homicide investigation. The nurse wrote it down but the info wasn’t passed on to the social worker.

When the social worker sat down with Keli re baby #3 and Keli said she wanted to put up the child for adoption, she said this baby was her only child. She maintained the same to the adoptions worker until DOCs found out about Tegan’s birth, and she initially said there was no baby (although interestingly she responded yes to the adopted birth in 1995. Why admit to that but deny Tegan’s birth?) when Borovnik said he had to report Tegan as missing she said “Please don’t” not “okay she’s with her father, don’t know where, leave me alone”.

Now that could be argued as panic and avoidance, but a day later she faxes a letter to the adoptions worker saying Tegan was with a couple in Perth who had befriended her. She does not say “father”. Why on earth not? Caro should have asked Keli about this. Because, the most obvious explanation is that Keli realised she had to come up with a story to make DOCs and the possible police report go away so she told adoptions that a couple in Perth had her. I note that Perth features heavily in all of Keli’s false statements about her circumstances each time she gave birth. When the police asked Keli to explain why she had said this to the adoptions worker but was now telling the police that the father had custody, she said something like “well, they could be in Perth”. It seems more likely that Keli realised that she needed a better story for the police so decided to say that she gave the baby to the biological father. She clearly didn’t think they’d go back through her previous statements. There were I think some discrepancies too between the Morris and Norris versions but I can’t quite remember. I’m really disappointed this wasn’t all explored.

The case against Keli is a bit weak I grant you, but I am like the police officer who ran the final investigation. I believe Keli did murder Tegan (although I would think abandoning her somewhere to die/be found fits better with her established behaviour) but finding the proof was difficult.

References: this is detailed in Nice Girl by Rachael Chin and also the R v Lane link that has been posted in the thread several times.

I am getting the feeling from ExposedABC, that the journalists are inclined to believe her, all the clues and investigations they are doing right now are pointed in that direction. To get that retrial for her, to clear her name.

Many of the members are not very helpful to that end.... Including one with a very popular post - (their own opinion) with the extent of deception there can't be any persons that she might go to those lengths to protect, and a conclusion that there is no other possibility left but foul play.

 

[Spooky7]

I guess who was the biological father was not an important factor in this case. The important part is who she claimed she gave Tegan to.

Obviously DG was never in possession of a newborn baby at the time.

As long as KL believes Andrew was the father, and according to her Andrew was willing to believe that...

Or maybe DG always used contraception. Sorry this has to be said! He didn't seem to care much for the fate of Tegan during the trial.[/
What you say is true, I guess it just pokes more of a hole in her story. Keli now insists that Tegan is with her father.

 

[Spooky7]

I felt that while Exposed was a good doco, there were a lot of things left out. For example, Elise (Caro’s co-worker) made the comment that the Andrew Norris/Morris story has been Keli’s story from the beginning. But actually, that isn’t true.

When Keli presented at Ryde Hospital to have baby #3, she was actually asked about her child born in 1996. Why? Because Ryde was where she first presented seeking an induced birth for Tegan claiming to be overdue and was sent home after being examined and doctors determining she wasn’t overdue. Ryde had this on record so asked about the earlier pregnancy as a part of their intake. Keli said “she’s at home”. This wasn’t discovered until the homicide investigation. The nurse wrote it down but the info wasn’t passed on to the social worker.

When the social worker sat down with Keli re baby #3 and Keli said she wanted to put up the child for adoption, she said this baby was her only child. She maintained the same to the adoptions worker until DOCs found out about Tegan’s birth, and she initially said there was no baby (although interestingly she responded yes to the adopted birth in 1995. Why admit to that but deny Tegan’s birth?) when Borovnik said he had to report Tegan as missing she said “Please don’t” not “okay she’s with her father, don’t know where, leave me alone”.

Now that could be argued as panic and avoidance, but a day later she faxes a letter to the adoptions worker saying Tegan was with a couple in Perth who had befriended her. She does not say “father”. Why on earth not? Caro should have asked Keli about this. Because, the most obvious explanation is that Keli realised she had to come up with a story to make DOCs and the possible police report go away so she told adoptions that a couple in Perth had her. I note that Perth features heavily in all of Keli’s false statements about her circumstances each time she gave birth. When the police asked Keli to explain why she had said this to the adoptions worker but was now telling the police that the father had custody, she said something like “well, they could be in Perth”. It seems more likely that Keli realised that she needed a better story for the police so decided to say that she gave the baby to the biological father. She clearly didn’t think they’d go back through her previous statements. There were I think some discrepancies too between the Morris and Norris versions but I can’t quite remember. I’m really disappointed this wasn’t all explored.

The case against Keli is a bit weak I grant you, but I am like the police officer who ran the final investigation. I believe Keli did murder Tegan (although I would think abandoning her somewhere to die/be found fits better with her established behaviour) but finding the proof was difficult.

References: this is detailed in Nice Girl by Rachael Chin and also the R v Lane link that has been posted in the thread several times.

There’s a lot of really good info in your post. I’m going to try to get hold of the book.

I didn’t realise that she had completely changed the story about where Tegan was, and had said she was with a couple in Perth. There are just so many lies it’s hard to keep track.

 

[Spooky7]

Can someone also confirm if it was the pregnancy with Tegan where she tried to have a late term termination but was refused? Or was that one of the other pregnancies?