GUILTY Australia - Terence Darrell Kelly, charged w/ abduction of 4 y.o., WA, 16 Oct 2021 #2

[peanutJelly]

Media are just sensationalising the "paper thin walls". There would be a solid structure between the 2 duplexes. Possibly a brick wall. With most duplexes, high rise buildings that are built these days use the precast concrete walls.

I think it’s the assumption that govt housing would be substandard when it will still need to meet certain legal building standards

 

[Warshawski]

"Deputy Police Commissioner Col Blanch was asked on Wednesday about reports that a woman was under investigation, as rumours continued to swirl that accused man Terence Darrell Kelly had an accomplice.

“I can rule that one out,” Mr Blanch told reporters."

Hi Pink, my response was in reply to this comment from NiMa ‘Police say there wasn’t’
And NiMa was responding to Commoner who asked if there were females in the car when TK was apprehended.

 

[PinkPower]

Hi Pink, my response was in reply to this comment from NiMa ‘Police say there wasn’t’
And NiMa was responding to Commoner who asked if there were females in the car when TK was apprehended.

Sorry!

 

[PinkPower]

I think it’s the assumption that govt housing would be substandard when it will still need to meet certain legal building standards

Agree! They seem to love to whip up every small detail of this case into something else, but are we surprised? It's the media

 

[Warshawski]

Sorry!

All good, it’s all so convoluted & confusing that I’m just trying to keep on track the tiny little bit that I can make sense of

 

[styzrz]

Profile and Common Characteristics of a Pedophile

• “Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.”

That article does TK no favours

 

[Marg944]

Kidnapping
What the Law states according to WA Law for Kidnapping

According to WA Law for the charge of Kidnapping:

Section 332: Any person who detains another with intent to –

(a) Gain a benefit, pecuniary or otherwise for any person;
(b) Cause a detriment, pecuniary or otherwise to any person;
(c) Prevent or hinder the doing of an act by a person who is lawfully entitled to do that act; or
(d) Compel the doing of an act by a person who is lawfully entitled to abstain from doing that act,
by threat, or by demand, or by threat and by demand, is guilty of a crime.
A person ‘detains’ another if they take or entice another person away or if they confine or detain another person in any place.
A “threat” means a threat to kill, injure, endanger or cause harm or detriment to any person.

The Maximum Penalty – Kidnapping
According to WA Law for the charge of Kidnapping:
The maximum penalty is 20 years imprisonment.

What the Police must prove according to WA Law for Kidnapping
(1) That the person detained another person;
(2) That the offender intended to detain another for any of the above reasons; and
(3) That there was a reasonable belief that a threat or demand had been made.

It is important to note that the Police do not have to prove that a threat was actually made, as the threat can be inferred.

Possible Defences under WA Law – Kidnapping
(a) Duress;
(b) Insanity;
(c) Emergency;
(d) Identification (ie. the accused is not the person who kidnapped the victim); and
(e) Consent.

In WA which court will hear the matter – Kidnapping
The matter would be heard in the District Court.


Kidnapping – Australian Criminal Lawyers Perth

 

[Marg944]

‘You just don’t know who’s going to come forward’: why do police offer rewards?

From iconic bushranger Ned Kelly to serial killer Ivan Milat, the promise of cash to solve crimes has long been a feature of Australian policing.

Each year rewards large and small are offered across the country, usually for information leading to a conviction, and often years, if not decades, after the crime.

But these conventions were turned on their head by the case of four-year-old CS, who disappeared from her family’s tent at an isolated West Australian campground in the early hours of 16 October. Six days after she went missing, the state government announced a $1m reward for information on CS’s location, or that led to the arrest and conviction of her abductor.

“That’s not normal,” former detective inspector Terry Goldsworthy tells Guardian Australia. “It’s highly unusual, in that it’s done at the start of the investigation.”

Dr Goldsworthy, who spent 28 years with Queensland police before becoming an associate professor at Bond University, suggests two reasons for the early reward. One, CS’s unique case lent itself to media attention which can influence how quickly a reward is offered. Two, it was an investigative tactic, and not a bad one. “I think they were putting it out there to apply pressure to the suspect or suspects,” he said.

CS’s story ended happily, the little girl found in a Carnarvon home 18 days after she went missing. Terence Darrell Kelly, 36, has been charged with her abduction. But – at least according to police – the $1m reward was not the clincher.

What are rewards for?
The point of reward money is to elicit new information and move investigations forward. Most often, they are deployed at the end of an investigation, when leads are exhausted. The prime target, Dr Goldsworthy said, is usually a “recalcitrant witness” who has never come forward. They may be scared, or simply not want to be involved, and the thinking is the money could push them over the line.
However, he says, one major drawback to rewards is that it can have the potential to hamper investigations with “information overload”.

‘You just don’t know who’s going to come forward’: why do police offer rewards?

 

[Estelle]

TK's crime could also be called Child stealing.

THE OFFENCE OF CHILD STEALING IN WESTERN AUSTRALIA
Section 343 of The Criminal Code Act Compilation Act 1913 states

Any person who, with intent to deprive any parent, guardian, or other person who has the lawful care or charge of a child under the age of 16 years, of the possession of such child, or with intent to steal any article upon or about the person of any such child —

• Forcibly or fraudulently takes or entices away, or detains the child; or
• Receives or harbours the child, knowing it to have been so taken or enticed away or detained;

is guilty of a crime, and is liable to imprisonment for 20 years.

Defences to the charge include proof that the accused person claimed a right to the possession of the child, or, in the case of an illegitimate child, is its mother or claimed to be its father or parent under section 6A of the Artificial Conception Act 1985.

The Offence of Child Stealing in Western Australia | Andrew Williams Criminal Lawyer

 

[Marg944]

I think both stealing & kidnapping?

Stealing vs Kidnapping
steal

English
Verb

• (lb) To take illegally, or without the owner's permission, something owned by someone else.

kidnap
English
(kidnapping)
Verb

• To seize and detain a person unlawfully; sometimes for ransom.

Steal vs Kidnap - What's the difference?

 

[Estelle]

In WA law, kidnapping is in Section 332 and child stealing is in Section 343. The difference is that there has been no mention of a ransom. You can also call "child stealing" child abduction.

What is worse kidnapping or abduction?

Kidnapping and child abduction are two separate crimes, though both are felonies. Kidnapping is more serious than child abduction, but the two are often confused. Kidnapping of a child is also known as child abduction, which is sometimes a separate legal category.

 

[Okapi]

<modsnip>

The hair dye is something i'm having trouble ruling out - even though I always listen to the police on these matters. I showed the images to a hair specialist and she mentioned that it can't have been lighting due to the red. I can't think of another reason it was this way, unless the prior photos were much older or - i don't know- I guess we just have to accept it's ruled out even though that's hard because it looks so fundamentally different.

I appreciate that a lot of this case may never come to light for the sake of CS and her family, but I hope that some of these more bizarre elements are explained, definitely.

CS was pictured in a floral pink dress with her mother just after she was rescued. She was wearing the same dress in one of the images circulated while she was missing so I’m assuming that was a very recent photo because I doubt she wore the dress in winter. I had a real squint at them last week but I couldn’t really see any colouration changes. I thought it must be the light. I’m not a hairdresser so who knows. Mind you, in the ‘missing’ picture, her hair is pulled back into high pigtails, maybe the underside of the hair was a different colour. Grasping at straws now.

 

[PinkPower]

<modsnip>
CS was pictured in a floral pink dress with her mother just after she was rescued. She was wearing the same dress in one of the images circulated while she was missing so I’m assuming that was a very recent photo because I doubt she wore the dress in winter. I had a real squint at them last week but I couldn’t really see any colouration changes. I thought it must be the light. I’m not a hairdresser so who knows. Mind you, in the ‘missing’ picture, her hair is pulled back into high pigtails, maybe the underside of the hair was a different colour. Grasping at straws now.

Yeah, the thing about the hair which the hair colourist explained (i have no idea how this stuff works!). She said that yellow blonde (which CS looks to have) is a blue based colour, and it has no red in it. When it darkens, or in different light, it will look an ashy colour, like mousy brown, but it will never get warm tones. In order for it to go a warm colour like it is in the hospital and press photos of her (with the pink balloon), where it has warm red hues, it has a red base. She explained that you can't get that warm colour in someone with a blue base unless you add red pigment. So going by that, it looks to have been dyed.

But who knows, it could just be different colour profiles on phones or cameras making it look different.

 

[JLZ]

In WA law, kidnapping is in Section 332 and child stealing is in Section 343. The difference is that there has been no mention of a ransom. You can also call "child stealing" child abduction.

What is worse kidnapping or abduction?

Kidnapping and child abduction are two separate crimes, though both are felonies. Kidnapping is more serious than child abduction, but the two are often confused. Kidnapping of a child is also known as child abduction, which is sometimes a separate legal category.

The relevant statute is the Western Australian Criminal Code Act Compilation Act 1913. Chapter 33 is titled Offences against liberty, into which fall: section 332 Kidnapping; section 33 Deprivation of liberty; and sections 36 and 37 which refer to the Mental Health Act. Chapter 34 is titled Offences relating to parental rights and duties, into which falls section 343 Child stealing. It seems to me that the differences are, first, that kidnapping is not age-specific, and second, that while kidnapping is an offence against the person detained, child stealing is an offence against the parent whose right to possession of the child has been breached. Where the person who has been unlawfully detained is a child, in my opinion both offences could be applicable.

 

[JLZ]

Yeah, the thing about the hair which the hair colourist explained (i have no idea how this stuff work!). She said that yellow blonde (which CS looks to have) is a blue based colour, and it has no red in it. When it darkens, or in different light, it will look an ashy colour, like mousy brown, but it will never get warm tones. In order for it to go a warm colour like it is in the hospital and press photos of her (with the pink balloon), it has warm red hues, which is a red base. She explained that you can't get that warm colour in someone with a blue base unless you add red pigment. So going by that, it looks to have been dyed.

But who knows, it could just be different colour profiles on phones or cameras making it look different.

As C is said to have loved cosmetics, and her mother is a beauty worker, it's possible that C's hair was dyed before she was taken. I have pointed out before that in one of the pre-disappearance photographs her hair was a similar colour to when she was found.

 

[PinkPower]

The relevant statute is the Western Australian Criminal Code Act Compilation Act 1913. Chapter 33 is titled Offences against liberty, into which fall: section 332 Kidnapping; section 33 Deprivation of liberty; and sections 36 and 37 which refer to the Mental Health Act. Chapter 34 is titled Offences relating to parental rights and duties, into which falls section 343 Child stealing. It seems to me that the differences are, first, that kidnapping is not age-specific, and second, that while kidnapping is an offence against the person detained, child stealing is an offence against the parent whose right to possession of the child has been breached. Where the person who has been unlawfully detained is a child, in my opinion both offences could be applicable.

Yes, it was reported that the charge was child stealing. Hope that the 'other offences' he was charged with relate to deprivation of liberty and not something more nefarious.
They could even be more minor charges related to driving without a license, unregistered vehicle, marijuana posession etc.

 

[5W's]

Omg. Crazy thought .... was he after an ultra expensive bratz and planning a “swap”?
I hope that is crazy and wrong !

I know its pretty sad. I haven't been keeping up to date with the latest developments (not that I don't want to) I was thinking this same thought that's why the monetary aspect came to my mind. The child did seem happy & content when LE rescued her. Is it possible the child was unharmed but soon she would be handed to someone for trafficking purposes and TK was a middleman. Its pretty risky on TK's part though if he was looking at this in a monetary regard. Right from the beginning, there are cameras everywhere now. At the tent site there are cottages with cameras, dash cams on people's vehicles and camper trailers. Its very risky, could an individual be so bold for money? Awful!

 

[styzrz]

I appreciate that a lot of this case may never come to light for the sake of CS and her family, but I hope that some of these more bizarre elements are explained, definitely.

CS was pictured in a floral pink dress with her mother just after she was rescued. She was wearing the same dress in one of the images circulated while she was missing so I’m assuming that was a very recent photo because I doubt she wore the dress in winter. I had a real squint at them last week but I couldn’t really see any colouration changes. I thought it must be the light. I’m not a hairdresser so who knows. Mind you, in the ‘missing’ picture, her hair is pulled back into high pigtails, maybe the underside of the hair was a different colour. Grasping at straws now.

BBM

Just for the record, Carnarvon is hot/warm all year round. A kid could wear a dress in any month.

 

[5W's]

IMO, Doing a course in construction is a good indicator that he likely wasn't on disability. It's so hard to get a disability payment, even for extremely disabled people, so it seems to me like you're spot on here. Probably Newstart, which is barely livable but like you said, easy enough to stay on when there's minimal job opportunities.

Although he could be on disability & still do odd jobs here and there. I would think for society's welfare if a person has mental health issues that could be aggravated the government would intervene and allow the individual to be on disability provided it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. However IDK in TK's case. I am only speculating.

 

[centred]

As C is said to have loved cosmetics, and her mother is a beauty worker, it's possible that C's hair was dyed before she was taken. I have pointed out before that in one of the pre-disappearance photographs her hair was a similar colour to when she was found.

I do not understand why this is still not cleared up , because i saw a press conference where LA were asked by a reporter whether her hair had been died and the answer was a definite " NO " i had put this too bed at that point and was some time ago so I am not understanding why some keep bringing it back up ..surely other members here heard it as well .