Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

[JLZ]

I agree with your sentiments, JLZ and SA. Prevention is definitely better than cure.

Education and support is key IMO.

First, education in schools and/or the community about the reality of bringing children into unstable family situations and, second, adequate support for a parent or parents when difficulties arise.

Unfortunately, there will always be those children who, for whatever reason, need to be placed with foster families or, alternatively, in institutional care but those placements need to be of an excellent standard, staffed by well remunerated, supported, professional and highly experienced carers.

In a perfect world, every child would be loved, well cared for and protected. Tragically, this was not the case for little Tia, as it isn’t for so many children.

I wish I had the answers to prevent further harm coming to just one child. Sadly, I don’t.

Yes there will be children who can't be raised by their birth parents. But what we are hearing is that the departments are overwhelmed by the increasing numbers of children at risk. The staff can't cope so they prioritize and cut corners. There aren't enough people willing and able to foster anyway. Either you accept the odd child murder as inevitable--"nobody could have foreseen" etc etc (repeat as needed)--and lots of lesser damage, ruined lives, or you pour money into the system so staff can do a ten times' better job, or--what?

 

[Jennifer17]

Where I live, there is a high population of retired people and I know of four sets of grandparents who are raising their grandchildren. All four families it is because of drugs and the neglect of the children that that led to, to me at least, it does seem to be on the increase. These children are lucky that they have grandparents that are willing to support them.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

IT WAS school holidays and the Thorburn family had packed the car for a quick camping trip to the picturesque Atkinson Dam, an hour or so inland from Brisbane...

I'm probably a bit confused with too many tabs open in my browser, but I can't find the source of this? Could you link to it please?

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm probably a bit confused with too many tabs open in my browser, but I can't find the source of this? Could you link to it please?

It is contained in Part One of a four part series about Tiah's murder.

It can be found in both the Courier Mail and the Daily Telegraph from 4 days ago (25th May).

It looks like Champaign shared with us an excerpt from Part One.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

Aha! Thankyou, much appreciated!

 

[Bohemian]

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Apparently the situation in NSW wrt people with criminal rap sheets who are approved foster carers may be similar to that in Queensland, although discovering the numbers requires lodgement of an FOI request according to FaCS.

Story reprinted in part I n The Daily Mail for those who don’t have access to the The Telegraph:

Calls for 'loophole' allowing convicted criminals to care for foster children to be closed | Daily Mail Online

 

[Champaign]

I'm probably a bit confused with too many tabs open in my browser, but I can't find the source of this? Could you link to it please?

This is from courier mail special report its behind a paywall

Category: | The Courier Mail

 

[SouthAussie]

I have been reading a review of the child placement system and criteria, conducted by the Qld govt in 2017.

Now I really cannot understand how Thorburn's sexual misconduct in NZ was not picked up. Seems that when a potential carer has resided internationally, an international criminal check should be completed. (See yellow-outlined box)

Perhaps the CSSC did not use their discretionary powers to do this, in Thorburn's case.



https://www.qfcc.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_FC_review.pdf

 

[Champaign]

I have been reading a review of the child placement system and criteria, conducted by the Qld govt in 2017.

Now I really cannot understand how Thorburn's sexual misconduct in NZ was not picked up. Seems that when a potential carer has resided internationally, an international criminal check should be completed. (See yellow-outlined box)

Perhaps the CSSC did not use their discretionary powers to do this, in Thorburn's case.

View attachment 135086

https://www.qfcc.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_FC_review.pdf

I am wondering because he was 14 years old at the time of the offence it was sealed? Being a Juvenile and all.

 

[sosocurious]

I have been reading a review of the child placement system and criteria, conducted by the Qld govt in 2017.

Now I really cannot understand how Thorburn's sexual misconduct in NZ was not picked up. Seems that when a potential carer has resided internationally, an international criminal check should be completed. (See yellow-outlined box)

Perhaps the CSSC did not use their discretionary powers to do this, in Thorburn's case.

View attachment 135086

https://www.qfcc.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_FC_review.pdf

Interstate and international personal history checks
For all applicants or adult household members who have previously resided interstate or overseas for six months or more:

• interstate and New Zealand child protection history checks must be undertaken by the CSU
• other international child protection history checks will be undertaken at the discretion of the CSSC manager
• criminal history checks for all international jurisdictions (including New Zealand) will be undertaken at the discretion of the CSSC manager.

The table below outlines the process for requesting international child protection and criminal history checks

The CSSC manager has the discretion to proceed with the application without international child protection and criminal history check information, or to decide that a full assessment is unable to be undertaken without the completion of international checks.

2. Assessment - Child Safety Services, Department of Communities, Child Safety and Disability Services (Queensland Government)

 

[sosocurious]

I am wondering because he was 14 years old at the time of the offence it was sealed? Being a Juvenile and all.

Or not considered important by the assessor given his age when coming to Australia.

 

[Bohemian]

I have been reading a review of the child placement system and criteria, conducted by the Qld govt in 2017.

Now I really cannot understand how Thorburn's sexual misconduct in NZ was not picked up. Seems that when a potential carer has resided internationally, an international criminal check should be completed. (See yellow-outlined box)

Perhaps the CSSC did not use their discretionary powers to do this, in Thorburn's case.

View attachment 135086

https://www.qfcc.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/final_report_FC_review.pdf

*sighs* It seems domestic violence checks are discretionary too.

 

[Jennifer17]

Does Rick have Australian citizenship? I have heard of New Zealanders being deported at the end of their sentences when the still hold NZ citizenship.

 

[sosocurious]

Oh that is a long way away Jen.
Probably won't be a problem.
He has a another court hearing to face yet. Who knows what else might pop up.

 

[Jennifer17]

Oh that is a long way away Jen.
Probably won't be a problem.
He has a another court hearing to face yet. Who knows what else might pop up.

Didn't he serve time here? Previous to this.

 

[sosocurious]

Didn't he serve time here? Previous to this.

Thorburn's defence barrister said his client had been a child in care himself after his mother died when he was nine years old and had spent time in juvenile institutions and on the streets.
Tiahleigh Palmer's foster father jailed for life for 'callous' murder and cover-up

Thorburn, who was 55 when he murdered Tiahleigh, has spent 619 days in custody.

Tiahleigh’s foster dad sentenced for murder

As Thorburn’s rap sheet grew he was even wanted on warrants interstate relating to trucking fines.
The Courier-Mail on Twitter

I am not sure.
I have seen it mentioned he was in jail but not where or when.
I was thinking the 619 days served whilst waiting to plead guilty was what it was meaning. Could be wrong.

 

[Champaign]

Thorburn's defence barrister said his client had been a child in care himself after his mother died when he was nine years old and had spent time in juvenile institutions and on the streets.
Tiahleigh Palmer's foster father jailed for life for 'callous' murder and cover-up

Thorburn, who was 55 when he murdered Tiahleigh, has spent 619 days in custody.

Tiahleigh’s foster dad sentenced for murder

As Thorburn’s rap sheet grew he was even wanted on warrants interstate relating to trucking fines.
The Courier-Mail on Twitter

I am not sure.
I have seen it mentioned he was in jail but not where or when.
I was thinking the 619 days served whilst waiting to plead guilty was what it was meaning. Could be wrong.

Yes the 600 odd days is time spent on remand waiting for trial. He has 18 years to serve before parole is considered. That saying he may NOT get parole or he may not even make it that long. He probably won't last that long inside given the way he looks

 

[SouthAussie]

I am wondering because he was 14 years old at the time of the offence it was sealed? Being a Juvenile and all.

I don't think it could have been sealed, because it was mentioned in the video drsleuth posted a few pages back. That is how we found out about it. No-one would be allowed to know, except the courts, if the record was sealed.
That is why I am puzzled as to why he got through as a Blue Card applicant.

I think they probably didn't bother to check, as they need foster parents so desperately.

Or, if they did check, it was as soso says. "Oh he was young then, he has no further sex crimes after that. It should be fine."

 

[Champaign]

I don't think it could have been sealed, because it was mentioned in the video drsleuth posted a few pages back. That is how we found out about it. No-one would be allowed to know, except the courts, if the record was sealed.
That is why I am puzzled as to why he got through as a Blue Card applicant.

I think they probably didn't bother to check, as they need foster parents so desperately.

Or, if they did check, it was as soso says. "Oh he was young then, he has no further sex crimes after that. It should be fine."

Sometimes juvey crimes cannot be disclosed until sentencing of a crime. Often these things are suppressed until a crime is committed.

Criminal records and associated police records detail a young person's contact with the criminal justice system. They can have significant effects in a child's later life. Criminal records can be retained and follow the child into adulthood or they can lapse upon the child's majority or after a certain time

This provision appropriately reflects the reality of youth offending — that most youth do not continue criminal behaviour into their adult lives, that the maintenance of a criminal record incurred as a youth stigmatises the young offender, and this stigmatisation could drive them further into criminality.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

I can see how you could spin an old conviction too if/when it was questioned. Tell the department you had a troubled childhood, got involved in some dodgy stuff, but now you've settled down and become a family man with a small business. You could even say that's why you want to foster, to give kids a chance you never had, and to set a good example of how you can overcome adversity.

Honestly I think if someone was sincere about that, they'd make a great foster parent. So maybe a blanket ban on any criminal history would be unnecessary. If a guy sold a bit of weed or got in a fight in a pub 20 years ago and has turned his life around, okay. If he's got sexual assault or domestic violence charges though I wouldn't let him anywhere near a position of responsibility at all.