Australia Australia - Two Female Backpackers attacked at Salt Creek, SA, 9 Feb 2016

[JudgeJudi]

I can’t believe how difficult this was to find. There's a new Consolidated Act in place and searching “kidnapping” only brought up sections relating to children. Hopefully this is the applicable section.

Criminal Law Consolidation Act 1935 (current)

Division 11 – Rape and other sexual offences

59—Abduction of male or female person

A person who takes away by force, or detains against his will, any other person—

(a) with intent to marry, or to have sexual intercourse with, that other person; or
(b) with intent to cause that other person to be married to, or to have sexual intercourse with, a third person, is guilty of an offence.

Maximum penalty:

(a) for a basic offence—imprisonment for 14 years;
(b) for an aggravated offence—imprisonment for 18 years.

Apologies if this is the wrong section.

 

[JudgeJudi]

doesn't the kidnapping start at the point Brazilian is tied up and, in case of the German, when she is hit in the head with a hammer as she tries to flee.

Yes, this is what the judge said but she was referring to intent. I couldn't understand how the word "kidnapping" came into the equation at this point.

very possibly. i looked up the legal definition and it says the unlawful seizing or carrying away of another person. It also says unlawful restraint. It also says in some cases, it's hard to define. It can vary by jurisdiction. Not really helpful, right? :scared:

I always thought "kidnapping" referred to the "unlawful seizing or carrying away ..." that tlorik mentions.

My post immediately above refers to "detains against his will with intent to have sexual intercourse".

We live and learn.

 

[Jo04]

I still can't believe they haven't produced a judgement. Can there be a ruling over the weekend or do we have to wait till Monday at the earliest?

Sent from my ZTE Blade L5 using Tapatalk

 

[DRT]

http://www.news.com.au/national/sout...5c867868e83b01

From the article:
The man, 60, whose identity is suppressed, has pleaded not guilty to one count each of:
AGGRAVATED kidnapping; Count 1
INDECENT assault;
CAUSING harm with intent to do so;
ATTEMPTED murder; Count 4
AGGRAVATED causing serious harm with intent to do so;
ENDANGERING life; and
AGGRAVATED assault.

From JJ post #399
Sean Fewster‏ @SeanFewster 5m

#SaltCreek jury actually has two questions of the court.
Public gallery not told what the jury's 1st question is. In any event, Justice Kelly says the answer to it is: "No".
Justice Kelly says that question related to count 1, which is aggravated kidnapping.
She says the second question - also not read aloud - is also answered "no".
That question pertained to count four, which is the alleged attempted murder of the German.

From JJ post #410
Sean Fewster @SeanFewster · 4m
The #SaltCreek jury has another question, regarding the legal concept of intent to commit an offence. Again, counts 1 and 4.
They wanted to know when, in attempted murder and kidnapping, an accused must have formed the intent in order to have committed a crime.
Justice Kelly answers: when the Brazilian was allegedly tied up, and when the German was allegedly hit with the hammer.

She asks the jury to now take five minutes to consider whether they want to continue to deliberate tonight, or go home and resume tomorrow.

BBM.

The bolded parts are how I determined when "kidnapping" charge.

 

[DRT]

Court Room 8 is booked for Monday just in case :gaah:Court Details

• Date: Monday 27th March 2017 at 10:00a.m.
  Court: Supreme Court
  Court Room: COURT 8
  Location: Sir Samuel Way Building, Victoria Square, Adelaide
  Judicial Officer: Justice KELLY
  
  

  ---

  Case Details
  Participant: H, R. (SUPPRESSED)
  Complainant: THE QUEEN (STATE)
  Charge: -
  Hearing Type: Part heard
  Case #: 4 SCCRM-16-260
  
  
  

 

[MsAnais]

THE jury in the alleged Salt Creek kidnapping case will resume their deliberations this morning.

On Friday the jurors asked a judge questions about the two central charges in the case after more than five hours of deliberation.

Just before 5pm, the 11-member jury sent two questions to justice Trish Kelly, who invited them to retire and consider their verdict at 11.20am on Friday.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...t/news-story/ab7adf202b5bce06d9a860f84947fd1c

 

[MsAnais]

Jurors at the trial of a man accused of sexually assaulting a Brazilian backpacker, bashing her German travelling companion with a hammer and trying to run her over have been warned not to consider his obsession with bondage and rape when assessing his guilt or innocence........

“You might think that’s a bit unsavoury, he’s not a very nice person or he could go out and rape someone,” Justice Kelly said.

“Even if they do have distasteful interests it doesn’t mean they’re acting them out.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...k/news-story/045d851991b19b4d76a929cd4f4f003a

 

[JudgeJudi]

My problem with the judge's comment is that he clearly is unsavoury and he did act them out.

I'm wondering now if the jurors are not unanimous and the questions asked of the judge were to seek clarification to help convince the holdouts.

:tantrum:

 

[DRT]

My problem with the judge's comment is that he clearly is unsavoury and he did act them out.

I'm wondering now if the jurors are not unanimous and the questions asked of the judge were to seek clarification to help convince the holdouts.

:tantrum:

There are 7 charges to consider and the only ones they have asked questions of are 1, 4 and 7. Each has to be considered. I know I like a bit of time to think things through but don't like to wait for others to particularly now.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sean Fewster Retweeted

Andrew Hough‏ @andrew_hough 12m12 minutes ago
#SaltCreek jury deliberating on their final count - attempted murder. Tell #Adelaide judge that 'intention' is a sticking factor 1/2

Sean Fewster Retweeted

Andrew Hough @andrew_hough · 11m11 minutes ago
#SaltCreek jury asking for transcripts of evidence of Brazilian and German backpackers to help them reach verdicts 2/2

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sean Fewster Retweeted

Andrew Hough @andrew_hough

#Adelaide judge sends in evidence transcripts of two backpackers. #SaltCreek jury now being asked if they want lunch

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is your blood pressure rising? Mine is.

 

[MsAnais]

Is your blood pressure rising? Mine is.

:scared:

 

[DRT]

AGGRAVATED kidnapping; Count 1
INDECENT assault;
CAUSING harm with intent to do so;
ATTEMPTED murder; Count 4
AGGRAVATED causing serious harm with intent to do so;
ENDANGERING life; and
AGGRAVATED assault.

The only 2 charges with intent here as I can see it are the ones underlined. The kidnapping being related to the Brazilian being allegedly tied up means IMO that there was no prior intent required. Ditto for the attempted murder charge the German was allegedly hit with the hammer.

 

[DRT]

:scared:

Let's hope they don't go to lunch! :happydance:

 

[MsAnais]

Let's hope they don't go to lunch! :happydance:

lease:

 

[JudgeJudi]

If they're now going to wade through portions of the transcript, I think we'll be twiddling our thumbs for a while.

 

[JudgeJudi]

We should start a protest.

What do we want? Justice.

When do we want it? Now.

:yeahthat:

 

[cool12]

Is your blood pressure rising? Mine is.

yes it is!

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sean Fewster Retweeted

Andrew Hough‏Verified account @andrew_hough

#SaltCreek jury now taking lunch. Nothing before 2pm