Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #10

[SouthAussie]

Keep hanging in for justice for Warriena everyone! Will be thinking of her, her family, the difficult the task the jurors have, and all of you throughout the day.

May a good and correct verdict come through. raying:

 

[ak19861981]

The jury's analysis of the tape should come down to common sense. Common sense being sound practical judgement that is independent of specialized knowledge.
In other words, our own normal native intelligence that we all share as human beings.
The jury in this trial should be encouraged by the judge to use that very thing. Common sense. For example, the lack of words spoken by Warriena. The strangulation noises heard. That's common sense. The fear in her voice is common sense. His callous way of speaking is common sense. The number of times she says no. That's common sense. The sound of her voice in pleading is common sense. The chilling feeling you felt when listening is common sense. For the sake of us all, use common sense to put this man away so he can harm no more.

Especially because we haven't had forensic analysis of the tape or anything like that! I would have thought in many trials an expert would be invited to analyse and put together a likely course of events. But I feel like MOST of us share this uneasy feeling about Gable's words as he dictates to the recording what is happening... This shared skepticism is probably what you are referring to here as common sense.

 

[Safeguard]

Even Tostee said as much. Phfft.

Well I for one don't resent the legal analysis... I apreciate the education. And while I do think he'll "walk free" I don't think he'll get very far. He seems determined to cut off his own legs. So enamored of himself already, imagine how unstoppable he will feel when he literally gets away with murder. I suspect he'll suffer a similar fate to that of OJ Simpson. Jmo

Hopefully no one else has to die before that happens.

 

[Tortoise]

Correct.

The case likely depends on defining at what moment after the door closes, do the consequences of her going over the balcony, no longer become his to bear.

That is the way you see it.

You missed the other way of looking at it, which is deciding that the consequences are his to bear.

 

[barcode]

I have a question for anyone who defends Tostee's choices. How do you envision the de-escalation playing out in a scenario in which Rrie does not fall from the balcony?

Let's posit for a moment that Tostee's intentions are good, no choking has taken place, his intent is to defuse the situation, and he has no reason to believe that she fears for her life.

He's inside. He's locked the balcony door. She's on the balcony. She is wearing pants, at a minimum. Her shoes are inside the apartment, as is her purse containing her ID, passport, keys and money. Her phone is unaccounted for. What happens next?

I think she believed she could climb down, maybe not all 14 floors but at least one. We all know she would not pass a DWI, I hate to envision her stumbling to walk a straight line. It would be a foolish attempt to do while sober BUT intoxicated like she was = a deadly mistake.

I had a friend who was addicted to crack, and their mentality was, I will not smoke any crack, I do not have an alcohol problem so I can just go out and get drunk. Sorry the decisions one makes while drinking are not the same ones one would make while sober.

 

[Freya1977]

Life is almost never that black and white.

However, in this case specifically, if we can use this forum as an unscientific representation of society and possibly the jury...

... it appears with the exception of a few individuals in both directions, the perspectives and opinions are skewed heavily toward gender.

Is there some way to know the gender of posters here? I wasn't aware.

 

[CleverKnot]

Your bias is showing.

This presumes:
- belief in Tostee's guilt is based on emotion
- demonstration of empathy is at odds with rational thought
- belief in Tostee's innocence is based on logic
- lack of empathy equates to clearheadedness
- disapproval of Tostee's behavior is an indication of gender

I personally consider this "reasoning" to be specious.

I fail to see how you arrived at those very narrow definitions.

I have expressed that I feel nothing but empathy for what she was experiencing, and at the same time, am able to empathize with him. Much of our individual logic, is based on our emotional experiences.

We have alao seen the narrow minded side with him using some very fuzzy logic, and simply based on his gender.

You can see it here and elsewhere that the differing opinions and their "thanks" are split quite heavily into gender groups.

 

[Tortoise]

His big footy messages are what brought me here. Do you agree the users Aware and Purlin are him?

Definitely, and I have another one for you, Broar. And there might be another one, or even two, I need to go back and look again before I can say.

 

[Freya1977]

Your bias is showing.

This presumes:
- belief in Tostee's guilt is based on emotion
- demonstration of empathy is at odds with rational thought
- belief in Tostee's innocence is based on logic
- lack of empathy equates to clearheadedness
- disapproval of Tostee's behavior is an indication of gender

I personally consider this "reasoning" to be specious.

This!

 

[CleverKnot]

Anecdotal 'evidence' or 'True story brah!'?

I'm beginning to think I've finally found my long-lost Daddy *sobz*

You'll notice my "thanks" are primarily male.

 

[Tortoise]

The jury's analysis of the tape should come down to common sense. Common sense being sound practical judgement that is independent of specialized knowledge.
In other words, our own normal native intelligence that we all share as human beings.
The jury in this trial should be encouraged by the judge to use that very thing. Common sense. For example, the lack of words spoken by Warriena. The strangulation noises heard. That's common sense. The fear in her voice is common sense. His callous way of speaking is common sense. The number of times she says no. That's common sense. The sound of her voice in pleading is common sense. The chilling feeling you felt when listening is common sense. For the sake of us all, use common sense to put this man away so he can harm no more.

Such a good post, it needs repeating.

 

[jessicalouise]

I have a question for anyone who defends Tostee's choices. How do you envision the de-escalation playing out in a scenario in which Rrie does not fall from the balcony?

Let's posit for a moment that Tostee's intentions are good, no choking has taken place, his intent is to defuse the situation, and he has no reason to believe that she fears for her life.

He's inside. He's locked the balcony door. She's on the balcony. She is wearing pants, at a minimum. Her shoes are inside the apartment, as is her purse containing her ID, passport, keys and money. Her phone is unaccounted for. What happens next?

Exactly. Great post. And it was cold weather too.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Well I for one don't resent the legal analysis... I apreciate the education. And while I do think he'll "walk free" I don't think he'll get very far. He seems determined to cut off his own legs. So enamored of himself already, imagine how unstoppable he will feel when he literally gets away with murder. I suspect he'll suffer a similar fate to that of OJ Simpson. Jmo

Hopefully no one else has to die before that happens.

I agree, it's wonderful having legal analysis and terms explained. I thought it ironic that Tostee said the legal system was lazy, corrupt and incompetent.

100% with you!

 

[TheOtherChristina]

I think she believed she could climb down, maybe not all 14 floors but at least one. We all know she would not pass a DWI, I hate to envision her stumbling to walk a straight line. It would be a foolish attempt to do while sober BUT intoxicated like she was = a deadly mistake.

I had a friend who was addicted to crack, and their mentality was, I will not smoke any crack, I do not have an alcohol problem so I can just go out and get drunk. Sorry the decisions one makes while drinking are not the same ones one would make while sober.

I agree with much of this, TBH. The only thing I think is missing from this equation is what drove her to make that foolhardy choice, and it is that missing piece that leads to Tostee's guilt.

What I'm trying to understand is this: the crown argument requires that Rrie's actions could be foreseen by a reasonable person, while the defense states they could not. My question is for those who feel her actions could not be foreseen. What actions would a reasonable person foresee?

 

[TheOtherChristina]

You'll notice my "thanks" are primarily male.

I'm afraid the "thanks" you receive are not statistically significant, and any conclusions you draw are inherently flawed.

 

[ahoy]

Definitely, and I have another one for you, Broar. And there might be another one, or even two, I need to go back and look again before I can say.

Thanks, I was thinking Broar was him as well. My only doubt about Aware is there is a horrible post by him in Feb 22 2015 saying 'he'd massacre everyone if he's put away'.

In feb 2015 the Toaster was supposed to be in jail though? What are your thoughts?

 

[CleverKnot]

Except for we really can not take away from this what you would like. 1. He knew what he was saying was being recorded and 2. Many moons ago I had a girlfriend that would repeat many times during sex...."please don't hurt me anymore" all while digging her fingernails into my back. Everything was always consensual BUT what she said and how she said it was out of the norm.

So if we take into context "Don't beat me up anymore" it could have all been part of their playtime so to speak.

What I think escalated the situation more than anything was him being called a fa**ot.

If you want to take that angle, then his comments about being a bad girl, he'll be her slave, and other references should be put into the same context, no?

 

[barcode]

@TheOtherChristina I was leaning towards her inebriation as the driving force to make that foolhardy choice.

 

[insidecircle]

Dr Little is being asked by Crown about strangulation again. She says there are also arm holds, in many cases don't leave marks. #tostee

She found no muscle injury or broken bone but did NOT rule it out. As she CLEARLY stated there are other forms of choking that are undetectable. I am sure If the judge thought there was no chance of choking having occurred he would not have given the Crown the opportunity to prosecute Tostee based on this very very very very very valid assumption.

[emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35] [emoji35]

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That is still your reasonable doubt. It is common ground that Tostee was assaulted with a metal clamp. So, was the force Tostee used to place her on the balcony proportionate to a potentially lethal stirke?

 

[Helen-Lou]

ffs...

so the jury are expected to disregard what he told her, which includes threatening to throw her over the balcony, in a murder trial where someone "went over the balcony and died???" make perfect sense to me! not!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: