Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #10

[TheOtherChristina]

I will happily be proven wrong when you skillfully skewer me with the law that covers all of this. However, you won't present one.

It is this very type of moral dilemma that is at the heart of this case. He is not physically doing anything to her when she goes over the edge. His legal guilt or innocence hinges on where each individual jury member draws that line where his culpability ends, and her responsibility for her own actions begin.

I simply provided examples for pondering. If you read the examples, you'd see there were clear examples of guilt, innocence, and grey area.

Strawman indeed. Mislabelling an argument, in order to deflect from its merit or to avoid a rebuttal, are dishonest debate tactics.

No, I won't be putting together a legal argument in this thread, it's quite off topic. But I promise you this: if you find me a single documented instance in which someone has been driven to suicide wholly by one misinterpreted innocuous comment, I will PM you case studies relevant to all your other scenarios and retract my assertion that it was a straw man. But let's not take this thread any further off course.

 

[jessicalouise]

So she had no hand in the events that led to her being on that balcony?

Did the prosecutor not agree she committed an assault as well?

We live in a cause and effect world.

Let's say she had assaulted him and he was in fear of his safety. Putting her on the balcony makes the least amount of sense as he'd have to come in contact with her again to leave the apartment. Putting her out the door makes the most amount of sense. He was pissed off at her, but he was in no way fearful of being harmed.

 

[CleverKnot]

The jury's analysis of the tape should come down to common sense. Common sense being sound practical judgement that is independent of specialized knowledge.
In other words, our own normal native intelligence that we all share as human beings.
The jury in this trial should be encouraged by the judge to use that very thing. Common sense. For example, the lack of words spoken by Warriena. The strangulation noises heard. That's common sense. The fear in her voice is common sense. His callous way of speaking is common sense. The number of times she says no. That's common sense. The sound of her voice in pleading is common sense. The chilling feeling you felt when listening is common sense. For the sake of us all, use common sense to put this man away so he can harm no more.

Many, many would argue that it is common sense not to go over the edge of a balcony 14 floors up.

Someone with no carpentry experience should not be building a house using what they think is common sense.

If you have no knowledge of a subject, you cannot seriously be considered an expert on the subject.

 

[jessicalouise]

Many, many would argue that it is common sense not to go over the edge of a balcony 14 floors up.

Someone with no carpentry experience should not be building a house using what they think is common sense.

If you have no knowledge of a subject, you cannot seriously be considered an expert on the subject.

Common sense would be that you don't go back into the same room as the man who just choked you and threw you out half dressed onto a balcony. Common sense says avoid that person at all costs.

 

[Freya1977]

You'll notice my "thanks" are primarily male.

How do you know? Do you assume they are male based on posting style? I seem to be being ignored lol

 

[Amee]

Morning all!!:seeya::seeya:

Thoughts with Warriena's loved ones, the jury, the prosecution and the police this morning - what will be will be.
OT (sort of OT :thinking - some words of wisdom from the CWA Handbook....

Trust your gut instinct - sometimes in life you will encounter people that add value to your views, opinions, empathy, the way you see yourself and others. Sometimes in life you will encounter people that detract from that, challenge for entertainment value. What gives them pleasure or satisfaction is seeing the reaction they get from others when they engage in this type of behaviour or communication. I'm sure most if not all of us have met people like this.

All I can say is trust your gut - if something feels like you are being toyed with, step away from the interaction. Don't give those people what they seek.

:rocker: :bicycle:

 

[Helen-Lou]

Especially because we haven't had forensic analysis of the tape or anything like that! I would have thought in many trials an expert would be invited to analyse and put together a likely course of events. But I feel like MOST of us share this uneasy feeling about Gable's words as he dictates to the recording what is happening... This shared skepticism is probably what you are referring to here as common sense.

I know what is with that??? why on earth "wasn't" there a forensic analysis of the tape??? I mean they are using the tape as evidence in court...why wasn't it forensically analysed???? tt IS relevant, the most relevant part of this whole trial!

 

[ahoy]

It's entirely possible he was about to phone the police to have her escorted out safely.

Ha, it's also entirely possible, maybe even factually correct that he'd try to call his lawyer and order a pizza

 

[CleverKnot]

That is the way you see it.

You missed the other way of looking at it, which is deciding that the consequences are his to bear.

That's what I said. If they collectively feel he is still responsible for her actions beyond the point of closing of the door, then it's an easy guilty verdict and we'd have had it days ago.

 

[Safeguard]

Correct.

The case likely depends on defining at what moment after the door closes, do the consequences of her going over the balcony, no longer become his to bear.

Every time I see the sentence, "The consequences are no longer his to bear"

I have to ask myself, where was that line, where he no longer had any consequences for any of his behavior, toward his "guest"?

 

[ak19861981]

And if we are speculating here, then common sense would state that when someone puts you not on a balcony, but balcony ledge 14 storeys high, you'd probably try to scale to a safer location

 

[TheOtherChristina]

It's entirely possible he was about to phone the police to have her escorted out safely.

Please, humor me.

GT calls the police and says, "There's a woman on my balcony and she's very drunk and I'm afraid of her. No, she's not armed. She tried to hit me with a piece of my telescope. No, not that piece, a smaller piece. No, I already took it away from her. Well, yes, I am on probation, now that you mention it."

The dispatcher says, "have you tried opening the front door, putting her belongings in the hallway, and telling her to leave?"

GT says, "I told her to leave, but then I asked her to stay and spend the night. Then I told her to leave again, but I told her she couldn't take her keys and passport, and she didn't leave."

"Okay, what happened when you let her have her keys and passport?"

???

 

[Safeguard]

Oh ffs lol

LOL. Right? At one point he had both their phones even! Could have stepped into the bathroom or wherever and called for help. But that would have ended the game. No fun in that.

 

[Bohemian]

Ah, yes. The male jurors will likely hunt the majestic logic beast, while the female jurors will use berries to make ink so they can journal about their synchronized periods.

*sound of hammer hitting nail* :floorlaugh:

 

[TheOtherChristina]

Many, many would argue that it is common sense not to go over the edge of a balcony 14 floors up.

Someone with no carpentry experience should not be building a house using what they think is common sense.

If you have no knowledge of a subject, you cannot seriously be considered an expert on the subject.

Well, that's why it's called "a jury of one's peers" and not "a panel of legal experts."

 

[jessicalouise]

At the end of the day, whether she tried to climb off the balcony or waited to be let back inside, her life was in danger. We live in a world where men kill women every day. To give him the benefit of the doubt that he'd simply cool off and call the police to come and collect her after just choking her is just going too far.

 

[ahoy]

If the jury start throwing pebbles at each other will they all have a licence to kill?

Pizza for the last juror standing!

 

[Rahamare]

Many, many would argue that it is common sense not to go over the edge of a balcony 14 floors up.

Someone with no carpentry experience should not be building a house using what they think is common sense.

If you have no knowledge of a subject, you cannot seriously be considered an expert on the subject.

Our legal system is designed to use "non experts" as jury, they have as little knowledge of the law as we do. Decisions and judgements that we make in our ordinary day lives are rarely based on words alone. It is common sense that helps us to decide on things. It's the jury's only tool.

 

[sosocurious]

Many, many would argue that it is common sense not to go over the edge of a balcony 14 floors up.

Someone with no carpentry experience should not be building a house using what they think is common sense.

If you have no knowledge of a subject, you cannot seriously be considered an expert on the subject.

Witness after witness on Tuesday testified that there was something different about these screams.

They were not just regular cries, according to James Evans, who was passing by the Avalon Apartments when Ms Wright fell from the 14th floor balcony of the apartment belonging to Tostee on August 8, 2014.

“It wasn’t just an ordinary scream. It was a terrified scream,” he testified.

http://www.news.com.au/national/que...m/news-story/9d371f8eb19ac2e00fee6fa474f631fd

 

[Helen-Lou]

I still think he may very well have video recorded that night as he has admitted himself he has done so in the past with his dates, it could very well be what he is holding and carrying right out the door with him when he leaves the apartment building via the basement...obviously there was "something" he felt he needed to take out of the building so no-one would find it? Again, was he ever actually asked what it was he was carrying out of the building? Even if the judge says it's not relevant, well of course it's bloody relevant...someone he was literally just with died a few minutes prior by falling over a balcony from his apartment!!!